Neolithic Revolution

[joshua 1 9]

And the Bible says NOTHING about where Noah started his farming. NOWHERE.

Gen 8:4 "The ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat" In Syrian tradition, as well as in Quranic tradition, the specific summit of the "Mountains of Ararat" where Noah's ark landed is identified as Mount Judi in what is today Şırnak Province, Southeastern Anatolia Region, Turkey.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Gen 8:4 "The ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat" In Syrian tradition, as well as in Quranic tradition, the specific summit of the "Mountains of Ararat" where Noah's ark landed is identified as Mount Judi in what is today Şırnak Province, Southeastern Anatolia Region, Turkey.

Then why did you cite Armenia as proof that the Bible is correct?

 

[joshua 1 9]

The Epic of Gilgamesh doesn't mention Moses, in any capacity.

Maybe you should look in Wiki to see what the Epic of Gilgamesh is all about:

the eleventh tablet of the Epic, describes the meeting of Gilgamesh with Utnapishtim. Like Noah in the Hebrew Bible, Utnapishtim had been forewarned of a plan by the gods to send a great flood. He built a boat and loaded it with all his precious possessions, his kith and kin, domesticated and wild animals and skilled craftsmen of every kind.

"Utnapishtim, or Utanapishtim, is a character in the epic of Gilgamesh who is tasked by Enki (Ea) to abandon his worldly possessions and create a giant ship to be called The Preserver of Life. He was also tasked with bringing his wife, family, and relatives along with the craftsmen of his village, baby animals and grains.[1] The oncoming flood would wipe out all animals and humans that were not on the ship, a concept similar to the biblical story of Noah's Ark. After twelve days on the water, Utnapishtim opened the hatch of his ship to look around and saw the slopes of Mount Nisir, where he rested his ship for seven days. On the seventh day, he sent a dove out to see if the water had receded, and the dove could find nothing but water, so it returned. Then he sent out a swallow, and just as before, it returned, having found nothing. Finally, Utnapishtim sent out a raven, and the raven saw that the waters had receded, so it circled around, but did not return. Utnapishtim then set all the animals free, and made a sacrifice to the gods. The gods came, and because he had preserved the seed of man while remaining loyal and trusting of his gods, Utnapishtim and his wife were given immortality, as well as a place among the heavenly gods.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Maybe you should look in Wiki to see what the Epic of Gilgamesh is all about:

the eleventh tablet of the Epic, describes the meeting of Gilgamesh with Utnapishtim. Like Noah in the Hebrew Bible, Utnapishtim had been forewarned of a plan by the gods to send a great flood. He built a boat and loaded it with all his precious possessions, his kith and kin, domesticated and wild animals and skilled craftsmen of every kind.

"Utnapishtim, or Utanapishtim, is a character in the epic of Gilgamesh who is tasked by Enki (Ea) to abandon his worldly possessions and create a giant ship to be called The Preserver of Life. He was also tasked with bringing his wife, family, and relatives along with the craftsmen of his village, baby animals and grains.[1] The oncoming flood would wipe out all animals and humans that were not on the ship, a concept similar to the biblical story of Noah's Ark. After twelve days on the water, Utnapishtim opened the hatch of his ship to look around and saw the slopes of Mount Nisir, where he rested his ship for seven days. On the seventh day, he sent a dove out to see if the water had receded, and the dove could find nothing but water, so it returned. Then he sent out a swallow, and just as before, it returned, having found nothing. Finally, Utnapishtim sent out a raven, and the raven saw that the waters had receded, so it circled around, but did not return. Utnapishtim then set all the animals free, and made a sacrifice to the gods. The gods came, and because he had preserved the seed of man while remaining loyal and trusting of his gods, Utnapishtim and his wife were given immortality, as well as a place among the heavenly gods.

A similar concept.
That's what is written in the source.
A similar concept. It means that the idea was the same.
That does not mean that Gilgamesh went to meet Moses. The Epic of Gilgamesh does not meet Moses, in any shape or form. It is as plain as day before you. You are reading something that is not there.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Then why did you cite Armenia as proof that the Bible is correct?

I can not study the Bible for you. I can only study the Bible for myself and this is the conclusion that I have come to: There is no conflict between the Bible and science. The Holy Spirit of God can do a work in your life to teach you the truth. It is not my job, nor is that my job description. This is between you and God. I can only share with you my testimony of what God has shown me and the work that God is doing in my life. You have to decide for youself. Each and every person has to make their own choice. I can not do that for you and God will not make your choice for you. It is up to you to be fully convinced in what you believe. I am fully convinced in what I believe.

Deu 30 19"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,20 by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them."

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I can not study the Bible for you. I can only study the Bible for myself and this is the conclusion that I have come to: There is no conflict between the Bible and science. The Holy Spirit of God can do a work in your life to teach you the truth. It is not my job, nor is that my job description. This is between you and God. I can only share with you my testimony of what God has shown me and the work that God is doing in my life. You have to decide for youself. Each and every person has to make their own choice. I can not do that for you and God will not make your choice for you. It is up to you to be fully convinced in what you believe. I am fully convinced in what I believe.

Deu 30 19"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,20 by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them."

You keep saying this, then offering this as proof that your claim is accurate.
But you are not doing anything to prove your claim is true. You just keep spouting random sources (both Biblical and otherwise) and non-sequiturs, then when you are called out on it, you go back on the "I'm not doing your homework for you" spiel.

 

[joshua 1 9]

A similar concept.
That's what is written in the source. A similar concept. It means that the idea was the same. That does not mean that Gilgamesh went to meet Moses. The Epic of Gilgamesh does not meet Moses, in any shape or form. It is as plain as day before you. You are reading something that is not there.

There are many accounts of Gilgamesh. The story gets passed from person to person sometimes before it gets written down. We know that the Bible is accurate and true. The Bible stands out from the other books dating back to the time of Moses and before. The Bible is the word of God and it will accomplish it's purpose. Gilgamesh is not considered to be as authoritative as the Bible.

God watches over His word to perform it. Isa 55 11 "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

There are many accounts of Gilgamesh. The story gets passed from person to person sometimes before it gets written down. We know that the Bible is accurate and true. It stands out from the other books dating back to the time of the Bible and before. The Bible is the word of God and it will accomplish it's purpose. Gilgamesh is not considered to be as authoritative as the Bible.

God watches over His word to perform it. Isa 55 11 "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

The Bible is the CLAIMED word of God. There is no proof, outside of personal belief that the claims in the Bible are true.
You are showing severe cognitive dissonance with this whole thread. You take the TINIEST tidbit, no matter where it's from, and say that it shows the Bible is true, without any regard to whether it's true or not, then you just spout random Biblical verses to 'back up' your claim.
The Epic of Gilgamesh is a story, same as the Genesis account. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[joshua 1 9]

There is no proof

There is no proof for the Bible? I give you a hugh amount of scientific proof and you have the audacity to say there is no proof? I am done. There is nothing more I can do to try and help you. You have made your choice.

 

[Armoured]

We are told that: Gen920 "Then Noah began farming and planted a vineyard."

The earliest archaeological evidence of wine production yet found has been at sites in Armenia (c.6100 BC),[1][2][3][4][5]Georgia (c. 6000BC)[6][7][8] and Iran (c. 5000 BC).[11] The Iranian jars contained a form of retsina, using turpentinepine resin to more effectively seal and preserve the wine.[11] Production spread to other sites in Greater Iran and Grecian Macedonia by c. 4500 BC. The Greek site is notable for the recovery at the site of the remnants of crushed grapes.[12] WIKI

What does science say about barley: "Remains of barley (Hordeum vulgare) grains found at archaeological sites in the Fertile Crescent indicate that about 10,000 years ago the crop was domesticated there from its wild relative Hordeum spontaneum. The domestication history of barley is revisited based on the assumptions that DNA markers effectively measure genetic distances and that wild populations are genetically different and they have not undergone significant change since domestication. " http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/4/499.full

Barley: is one of the most important of the cereal grains, and the most hardy of them all. It was grown by the Hebrews, (Leviticus 27:16; 8:8; Ruth 2:17) etc., who used it for baking into bread chiefly among the poor, (Judges 7:13; 2 Kings 4:42; John 6:9,13) and as fodder for horses. (1 Kings 4:28) The barley harvest, (Ruth 1:22; 2:23; 2 Samuel 21:9;10) takes place in Palestine in March and April, and in the hilly district as late as May. It always precedes the wheat harvest, in some places by a week, in others by fully three weeks. In Egypt the barley is about a month earlier than the wheat; whence its total destruction by the hail storm. (Exodus 9:31) Smith Dictionary

Barley and Wine need clay pots to ferment. Before clay pots they kept their gains in baskets and they did not ferment. In the Old Testament, Aaron and his sons, the priests, were strictly forbidden to drink either wine or strong drink when they went into the tabernacle to minister before the Lord (see Leviticus 10:9).

Wow. OK, so "lining up" has a low bar.

Thanks for the response, though.

 

[Armoured]

The Epic of Gilgamesh doesn't mention Moses, in any capacity.
You see, you're doing it again: you want your personal believes to be true so hard, that you will twist anything you find to fit your believes. It's called confirmation bias and is a cognitive dissonance.

I'd call it more "making up from whole cloth".

See also: Gobekli Tepe being a brothel.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

There is no proof for the Bible? I give you a hugh amount of scientific proof and you have the audacity to say there is no proof? I am done. There is nothing more I can do to try and help you. You have made your choice.

That's because you haven't done anything. You taken the tiniest connection between the Bible and historical evidence and tried to make it fit.

 

[bhsmte]

No you show evidence it is NOT true. Show me where the Bible is in error or where it conflict with science or world history. You have the burden of proof here, not me.

Ah, there you go again.

Make a claim that you have science to support your claim and then push the burden of proof on the other guy, to prove a negative.

This is getting to be the norm.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Ah, there you go again.

I have provided a ton of evidence and you have not provided anything in the way of a rebuttal. If you do not present your side of the issue then I win by default because you could not defend your counterclaim.

I have an abundance of overwhelming evidence that the Bible is accurate and true. You have absolutely nothing, zip, zero, zilch to show otherwise. Science has risen to the call and sterilized themselves of anything that would offend Christianity. They have purged themselves of anything that would contradict the Bible.

Your lack of a rebuttal and a defense for your claim is getting to be the norm.

 

[bhsmte]

I have provided a ton of evidence and you have not provided anything in the way of a rebuttal. If you do not present your side of the issue then I win by default because you could not defend your counterclaim.

I have an abundance of overwhelming evidence that the Bible is accurate and true. You have absolutely nothing, zip, zero, zilch to show otherwise. Science has risen to the call and sterilized themselves of anything that would offend Christianity. They have purged themselves of anything that would contradict the Bible.

Your lack of a rebuttal and a defense for your claim is getting to be the norm.

You are starting to sound like another poster on this board, who insists they have presented scientific evidence to support their claims.

It seems to be catching.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You are starting to sound like another poster on this board, who insists they have presented scientific evidence to support their claims.

It seems to be catching.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

bhsmte is right though: you have no offered any evidence for your claims. You have only offered tiny little snippets taken out of context to fit your narrative (your claim of Moses being in the Epic of Gilgamesh is the best example) or have just flat out not given any evidence whatsoever.

 

[joshua 1 9]

bhsmte is right though: you have no offered any evidence for your claims. You have only offered tiny little snippets taken out of context to fit your narrative (your claim of Moses being in the Epic of Gilgamesh is the best example) or have just flat out not given any evidence whatsoever.

Oh, I have offered a ton of evidence. Above and beyond the call of duty. It does not matter to me though. I do the research and share it with others for my own edification and education. So I can learn more about God and the word of God. If anyone else gets any benefit out of it that is fine. If no one does that is fine also because like I say I do it for myself because I have to be content that what I say is true and that there are no contradictions. I am fully convinced that the Christian life is the very best life to live and I would never ever want to go back to not being a Christian. I know beyond any doubt that God answers prayer. The Bible talks about the effectual feverant prayer of the righteous availeth much. Now this is five words and that is a lot to deal with. I try to explain the meaning of ONE word to people and they do not seem to grasp the concept of what just one word means. So when you put five words together like this I can see where it could be difficult for people to understand what they need to do to receive an answer to their prayers.

Christians require very little in the way of words because they are so powerful and have so much meaning. People want a lot of words yet we are told: "When there are many words, sin is unavoidable, but the one who controls his lips is wise." prov 10 19

"For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart". heb4:12

"For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, And do not return there without watering the earth And making it bear and sprout, And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater; 11So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it. Isa 55

Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; H6743 and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Oh, I have offered a ton of evidence. Above and beyond the call of duty... (snipped self-indulgent rant)

See? You've done it again.
You say you have given evidence (which you have not), then you cite random Bible verses like that proves a point. I'm sure that in your mind, it proves a point, but to so many of us, it's proves nothing. But when challenged, you put yourself on a high-horse and claim, in no few words, that it is beneath you to restate the evidence for us.
I will say bluntly: you have a delusion, plain and simple.

 

[bhsmte]

See? You've done it again.
You say you have given evidence (which you have not), then you cite random Bible verses like that proves a point. I'm sure that in your mind, it proves a point, but to so many of us, it's proves nothing. But when challenged, you put yourself on a high-horse and claim, in no few words, that it is beneath you to restate the evidence for us.
I will say bluntly: you have a delusion, plain and simple.

It is a defense mechanism. If they keep saying they have presented scientific evidence, they may convince themselves of the same.