Refuting Sola Scriptura - Why the Bible Alone is Not Sufficient

[Rick Otto]

And yet, even Jerome didn't have the authority to change the Canon that had already been set at Carthage, Hippo and Rome. Yes, there will always be disputes, but the Church's Canon of Scripture has not changed in 1800 years, and will not.

Is that because "The Church" as you call her, is above the truth, being the sole authority interpreting it, as it she claims?

 

[Rick Otto]

And Josephus is authoritative...how?

Academically.
From Wiki:
"
The works of Josephus include material about individuals, groups, customs, and geographical places. Some of these, such as the city of Seron, receive no mention in the surviving texts of any other ancient authority. His writings provide a significant, extra-Biblical account of the post-Exilic period of the Maccabees, the Hasmonean dynasty, and the rise of Herod the Great. He refers to the Sadducees, Jewish High Priests of the time, Pharisees and Essenes, the Herodian Temple, Quirinius' census and the Zealots, and to such figures asPontius Pilate, Herod the Great, Agrippa I and Agrippa II, John the Baptist, James the brother of Jesus, and to Jesus (for more see Josephus on Jesus).[23] Josephus represents an important source for studies of immediate post-Temple Judaism and the context of early Christianity.

A careful reading of Josephus's writings and years of excavation allowed Ehud Netzer, an archaeologist from Hebrew University, to discover what he considered to be the location of Herod's Tomb, after a search of 35 years.[24] It was aboveaqueducts and pools, at a flattened desert site, halfway up the hill to the Herodium, 12 kilometers south of Jerusalem—as described in Josephus's writings.[25] In October 2013, archaeologists Joseph Patrich and Benjamin Arubas challenged the identification of the tomb as that of Herod.[26] According to Patrich and Arubas, the tomb is too modest to be Herod's and has several unlikely features.[26] Roi Porat, who replaced Netzer as excavation leader after the latter's death, stood by the identification.[26]

Manuscripts, textual criticism and editionsEdit
For many years, printed editions of the works of Josephus appeared only in an imperfect Latin translation from the original Greek. Only in 1544 did a version of the standard Greek text become available, edited by the Dutch humanist Arnoldus Arlenius. The first English translation, by Thomas Lodge, appeared in 1602, with subsequent editions appearing throughout the 17th century. The 1544 Greek edition formed the basis of the 1732 English translation by William Whiston, which achieved enormous popularity in the English-speaking world. It was often the book—after the Bible—that Christians most frequently owned.[citation needed] A cross-reference apparatus for Whiston's version of Josephus and the biblical canon also exists.[27][28]

Later editions of the Greek text include that of Benedikt Niese, who made a detailed examination of all the available manuscripts, mainly from France and Spain. Henry St. John Thackeray used Niese's version for the Loeb Classical Libraryedition widely used today. William Whiston, who created perhaps the most famous of the English translations of Josephus, claimed that certain works by Josephus had a similar style to the Epistles of St Paul (Saul).[29]

The standard editio maior of the various Greek manuscripts is that of Benedictus Niese, published 1885–95. The text ofAntiquities is damaged in some places. In the Life, Niese follows mainly manuscript P, but refers also to AMW and R. Henry St. John Thackeray for the Loeb Classical Library has a Greek text also mainly dependent on P.[citation needed] André Pelletier edited a new Greek text for his translation of Life. The ongoing Münsteraner Josephus-Ausgabe of Münster University will provide a new critical apparatus. There also exist late Old Slavonic translations of the Greek, but these contain a large number of Christian interpolations.[30]


WorksEdit
The works of Jewish historian, Josephus (37-100 ca), are major sources of our understanding of Jewish life and history during the first century.[31]


The works of Josephus translated byThomas Lodge (1602).

• (c. 75) War of the Jews, or The Jewish War, or Jewish Wars, or History of the Jewish War (commonly abbreviated JW, BJ or War)
• (date unknown) Josephus's Discourse to the Greeks concerning Hades (spurious; adaptation of "Against Plato, on the Cause of the Universe" by Hippolytus of Rome)
• (c. 94) Antiquities of the Jews, or Jewish Antiquities, or Antiquities of the Jews/Jewish Archeology (frequently abbreviated AJ, AotJ or Ant. or Antiq.)
• (c. 97) Flavius Josephus Against Apion, or Against Apion, or Contra Apionem, orAgainst the Greeks, on the antiquity of the Jewish people (usually abbreviated CA)
• (c. 99) The Life of Flavius Josephus, or Autobiography of Flavius Josephus(abbreviated Life or Vita)

 

[Root of Jesse]

Is that because "The Church" as you call her, is above the truth, being the sole authority interpreting it, as it she claims?

No, the Church is THE Truth. Christ sent His Paraclete to guide her in all Truth, remember?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Academically.
From Wiki:
"
The works of Josephus include material about individuals, groups, customs, and geographical places. Some of these, such as the city of Seron, receive no mention in the surviving texts of any other ancient authority. His writings provide a significant, extra-Biblical account of the post-Exilic period of the Maccabees, the Hasmonean dynasty, and the rise of Herod the Great. He refers to the Sadducees, Jewish High Priests of the time, Pharisees and Essenes, the Herodian Temple, Quirinius' census and the Zealots, and to such figures asPontius Pilate, Herod the Great, Agrippa I and Agrippa II, John the Baptist, James the brother of Jesus, and to Jesus (for more see Josephus on Jesus).[23] Josephus represents an important source for studies of immediate post-Temple Judaism and the context of early Christianity.

A careful reading of Josephus's writings and years of excavation allowed Ehud Netzer, an archaeologist from Hebrew University, to discover what he considered to be the location of Herod's Tomb, after a search of 35 years.[24] It was aboveaqueducts and pools, at a flattened desert site, halfway up the hill to the Herodium, 12 kilometers south of Jerusalem—as described in Josephus's writings.[25] In October 2013, archaeologists Joseph Patrich and Benjamin Arubas challenged the identification of the tomb as that of Herod.[26] According to Patrich and Arubas, the tomb is too modest to be Herod's and has several unlikely features.[26] Roi Porat, who replaced Netzer as excavation leader after the latter's death, stood by the identification.[26]

Manuscripts, textual criticism and editionsEdit
For many years, printed editions of the works of Josephus appeared only in an imperfect Latin translation from the original Greek. Only in 1544 did a version of the standard Greek text become available, edited by the Dutch humanist Arnoldus Arlenius. The first English translation, by Thomas Lodge, appeared in 1602, with subsequent editions appearing throughout the 17th century. The 1544 Greek edition formed the basis of the 1732 English translation by William Whiston, which achieved enormous popularity in the English-speaking world. It was often the book—after the Bible—that Christians most frequently owned.[citation needed] A cross-reference apparatus for Whiston's version of Josephus and the biblical canon also exists.[27][28]

Later editions of the Greek text include that of Benedikt Niese, who made a detailed examination of all the available manuscripts, mainly from France and Spain. Henry St. John Thackeray used Niese's version for the Loeb Classical Libraryedition widely used today. William Whiston, who created perhaps the most famous of the English translations of Josephus, claimed that certain works by Josephus had a similar style to the Epistles of St Paul (Saul).[29]

The standard editio maior of the various Greek manuscripts is that of Benedictus Niese, published 1885–95. The text ofAntiquities is damaged in some places. In the Life, Niese follows mainly manuscript P, but refers also to AMW and R. Henry St. John Thackeray for the Loeb Classical Library has a Greek text also mainly dependent on P.[citation needed] André Pelletier edited a new Greek text for his translation of Life. The ongoing Münsteraner Josephus-Ausgabe of Münster University will provide a new critical apparatus. There also exist late Old Slavonic translations of the Greek, but these contain a large number of Christian interpolations.[30]


WorksEdit
The works of Jewish historian, Josephus (37-100 ca), are major sources of our understanding of Jewish life and history during the first century.[31]


The works of Josephus translated byThomas Lodge (1602).

• (c. 75) War of the Jews, or The Jewish War, or Jewish Wars, or History of the Jewish War (commonly abbreviated JW, BJ or War)
• (date unknown) Josephus's Discourse to the Greeks concerning Hades (spurious; adaptation of "Against Plato, on the Cause of the Universe" by Hippolytus of Rome)
• (c. 94) Antiquities of the Jews, or Jewish Antiquities, or Antiquities of the Jews/Jewish Archeology (frequently abbreviated AJ, AotJ or Ant. or Antiq.)
• (c. 97) Flavius Josephus Against Apion, or Against Apion, or Contra Apionem, orAgainst the Greeks, on the antiquity of the Jewish people (usually abbreviated CA)
• (c. 99) The Life of Flavius Josephus, or Autobiography of Flavius Josephus(abbreviated Life or Vita)

Which means nothing, regarding the Church's Canon of Scripture, which is derived from the LXX.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Romanists

That's really getting aggravating. Unless you're saying it's okay for me to call you a cultist, please knock it off.

 

[Rick Otto]

No, the Church is THE Truth. Christ sent His Paraclete to guide her in all Truth, remember?

I get it. The truth needs a guide to Truth.
Perfect.

 

[BobRyan]

And Josephus is authoritative...how?

He is a Jewish historian - and knew a thing or two about the Jewish text - of the OT.

Far more than some pope coming along in the 4th century - long after Josephus. A Pope who knew less about the language than his own Latin Vulgate translator "Jerome" who placed in the text of the latin Bible the fact that the Apocryphal texts really did not belong - just as the Jews had said about their own text.

Details matter.

And that is yet another reason why we prefer sola scriptura to error-tradition

 

[Root of Jesse]

He is a Jewish historian - and knew a thing or two about the Jewish text - of the OT.

Far more than some pope coming along in the 4th century - long after Josephus. A Pope who knew less about the language than his own Latin Vulgate translator "Jerome" who placed in the text of the latin Bible the fact that the Apocryphal texts really did not belong - just as the Jews had said about their own text.

Details matter.

And that is yet another reason why we prefer sola scriptura to error-tradition

You're saying that the Holy Spirit makes mistakes, which is flat out un-true. I'll take the Holy Spirit over Josephus.

 

[Standing Up]

Regardless of who the authors were, the Sanhedrin had the authority to choose its canon, yet never set it in stone until Christianity did. The Pope and the Councils, likewise had the authority to choose the Church's canon.

No, that is later RC looking backwards in time through RC lenses. Scripture (Jesus, Paul, Peter, OT) and tradition (Josephus, Maccabees) tell us the authority was God's "prophetic voice" The Spirit through the prophets (OT). That was the authority, not a council. They at that time wouldn't dream of usurping what is God's (the "it is written").

 

[Acts24Fourteen]

That's really getting aggravating. Unless you're saying it's okay for me to call you a cultist, please knock it off.

You may call me what you will, as many others have, even with worse epithets. 'Cultist', doesn't bother me, see my 'name": Acts 24:14:

Acts 24:14 KJB - But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
​

They called the early Christians, "sect" and all kinds of things:

Acts 24:5 KJV - For we have found this man [a] pestilent [fellow], and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:

Acts 28:22 KJV - But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.
​

Therefore, it is written, and thus endearing me to Jesus Christ all the more:

Matthew 5:11 KJB - Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.


FRINGE [group]:

Numbers 15:38 KJB - Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue:

Numbers 15:39 KJB - And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

Blue Sapphire Law of God - See Exodus 24:10-12; Ezekiel 1:26-28, 10:1


SECT:

Acts 24:5 KJB - For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:

Acts 28:22 KJB - But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.


ALARMIST:

Joel 2:1 KJB - Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;


CONSPIRICIST:

Jeremiah 11:9 KJB - And the LORD said unto me, A conspiracy is found among the men of Judah, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Isaiah 8:12 KJB - Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.


TINY LITTLE GROUP:

Revelation 12:17 KJB - And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Zechariah 8:12 KJB - For the seed shall be prosperous; the vine shall give her fruit, and the ground shall give her increase, and the heavens shall give their dew; and I will cause the remnant of this people to possess all these things.

Ezekiel 5:1 KJB - And thou, son of man, take thee a sharp knife, take thee a barber's razor, and cause [it] to pass upon thine head and upon thy beard: then take thee balances to weigh, and divide the [hair].

Ezekiel 5:2 KJB - Thou shalt burn with fire a third part in the midst of the city, when the days of the siege are fulfilled: and thou shalt take a third part, [and] smite about it with a knife: and a third part thou shalt scatter in the wind; and I will draw out a sword after them.

Ezekiel 5:3 KJB - Thou shalt also take thereof a few in number, and bind them in thy skirts.

Ezekiel 5:4 KJB - Then take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire; [for] thereof shall a fire come forth into all the house of Israel.


NARROW/NARROW MINDED:

Matthew 7:14 KJB - Because strait is the gate, and narrowis the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

John 14:6 KJB - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Philippians 2:5 KJB - Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

1 Peter 4:1 KJB - Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;


CLOSED/CLOSED MINDED:

Revelation 7:4 KJB - And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.


HARD HEADED:

Exodus 28:36 KJB - And thou shalt make a plate [of] pure gold, and grave upon it, [like] the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD.

Exodus 28:37 KJB - And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be.

Exodus 28:38 KJB - And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD.

Ezekiel 3:8 KJV - Behold, I have made thy face strong against their faces, and thy forehead strong against their foreheads.

Ezekiel 3:9 KJV - As an adamant harder than flint have I made thy forehead: fear them not, neither be dismayed at their looks, though they [be] a rebellious house.

Revelation 14:1 KJB - And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

1 Samuel 2:2 KJB - There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.

Matthew 21:44 KJB - And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Luke 20:18 KJB - Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Acts 6:9 KJV - Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called [the synagogue] of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.

Acts 6:10 KJV - And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.


HERESY [heretic]:

Acts 24:14 KJB - But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

As for "Romanist", "Romanism", "Romish", "Papist", "Latins" [relig. conno.], it is what a Roman Catholic is by clinging to their belief system, since it identifies them from what they would consider in general as 'catholic' ["seperated brethren", not true churches "in the proper sense", whether it is EOC, OOC, etc, I have the sources from Rome if you need those]. I know better, as I used to be Roman Catholic, and have the sources to demonstrate what I say. Additionally, I have past experience, for whenever anyone would ask me then, if I was a "Christian", I would always say in return, "I am a Roman Catholic".

At the Vatican, in Rome, there is the "Roman Curia", "Roman Council", "Roman Canon [Law]", "Roman Breviary", "the Roman Missal", "the Roman claim", etc, etc, and the Church [at Rome] is often called the "Roman Church" in Rome's own documents, under Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur. Should I cease also from calling the Greek orthodox church, Greek, Graeco, etc?

"... In this canonical and diplomatic sense, the term is synonymous with ... "Roman Church", "Roman Curia". ... Covarruvias and Gonzalez agree that: "Curia Romana ibi censetur esse, ubi est papa cum cancellaria et tribunalibus et officialibus suis, quos ad regimen ecclesiae adhibet" (the Roman Curia is considered to be where the pope is, with the chancery, tribunals, and officials whom he employs in the Government of the Church). (Bangen, "Die römische Kurie", Münster, 1854, I, i, 5)." - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07424b.htm

"... Out of condescension for these dissidents, the members of that Church are wont in official documents to be styled "Roman Catholics" ... the Roman claim ..." - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13121a.htm
​

There you have it. You get the proper designation "Roman", while we lesser beings, are "condescen[ded]" to, and called "dissidents". I can cite other documentation which use a far greater hate-mongering and filth-spewing language coming from the pen/mouths of popes, prelates, bishops, etc. The other terms "Romish", "Romanist", "Papist", "Latins" [relig. conno.] simply variants, and merely identify them from the other so-called 'catholics' who do not adhere to the "Papacy", "pope", or to the "Latin rites", etc. They are distinguishing between multiple "catholics", who all do not share the same ideologies, practices, etc. All of those terms are used in Roman Catholic documents.

Therefore, I am going to ask you, are you a Roman catholic, or another kind of catholic? Please be specific. For if you are not a Roman catholic, I can cease from using that designation to identify you specifically, though I will still use it, in speaking about Roman theologies Thank you.

 

[TheDag]

I do not ignore the divisions within the Catholic Church. The devil constantly scatters the sheep by isolating the shepherd. There's many divisions, but Catholic doctrine is not one of them. Those who disagree with it are simply not "Catholic". Just as the disciples fell away when Jesus said they must eat His flesh and drink though His blood.

*please note I think I accidently deleted part of your quote. It was not intentional*
If you want to make that excuse then we can just say anyone who causes any division wasn't following sola scripture so case closed and you were just trying to create division by starting this thread. I'm guessing you don't want to say that. No double standards in your views will be accepted by me. Others may fall for it but I won't.

Practices are not divinely inspired. What practice has been going on over 2000 years that you consider wrong?

Way epileptics were treated. In any case that the practice went for so long without being condemned by church leaders and was actually actively encouraged and promoted by priests shows that it was part of their belief. You can make excuses all you like but it doesn't change facts.

(By the way, you just admitted that the Catholic Church is the Church Christ founded...)

Do you feel it is necessary to resort to petty comments. My personal belief on this is that the church is not a building or organisation but group of believers which is made up of people from all different denominations. If you want to talk about it as a organisation founded by Jesus then there is just as much evidence to prove orthodox was the one founded by Jesus as there is for RCC. More importantly anyone who wants to focus on petty stuff like this is missing the point on christianity.

What is also entertaining is that you claim the papcy is not a difference between orthodox & RCC. If this is so can you explain why Orthodox do not generally accept the bishop of Rome is the leader of the christian church?

We're talking about ceremony.

Have a look at what I wrote again and you will see it was a joke comment not meant to be responded to.

 

[Wgw]

There you have it. You get the proper designation "Roman", while we lesser beings, are "condescen[ded]" to, and called "dissidents". I can cite other documentation which use a far greater hate-mongering and filth-spewing language coming from the pen/mouths of popes, prelates, bishops, etc. The other terms "Romish", "Romanist", "Papist", "Latins" [relig. conno.] simply variants, and merely identify them from the other so-called 'catholics' who do not adhere to the "Papacy", "pope", or to the "Latin rites", etc. They are distinguishing between multiple "catholics", who all do not share the same ideologies, practices, etc. All of those terms are used in Roman Catholic document

Eastern Catholics are not members of the Roman Rite but are in communion with Rome, and too often I have seen Romish or Romanist used to refer to them. In fact I have seldom seen these words not used in a derogatory context, like when people call my own church "Monophysite."

 

[BobRyan]

Well in that case - Christ is the "Guide" I pick - not an RC Pope coming along centuries later.

And Christ said this - about "Sola Scriptura" testing of church tradition and doctrine.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

You're saying that the Holy Spirit makes mistakes, which is flat out un-true. I'll take the Holy Spirit over Josephus.

1. The Holy Spirit did not say that the apocrypha is scripturel
2. The Holy Spirit did not say that Josephus' statement about the canon was wrong.
3. I did not say that the Holy Spirit makes mistaks. Rather I said that Christ tells the truth.

so then ... sola scriptura testing it is.

 

[Wgw]

I see no reason to doubt the veracity of those books present in the LXX but absent from the MT; the LXX is replete with Christological material absent from the MT. As a rule I categorically refuse to refer to the Psalter using anything other than LXX/Vulgate chapters, versifications and content.

 

[BobRyan]

The Jews authored the LXX - and they themselves point out that the Apocrypha is not scripture.

Even the RCC's own Jerome pointed out that same detail to those RC administrators that could not read the text of the OT in Hebrew.

So no reason to doubt Christ's teachin in Mark 7:6-13

 

[Wgw]

The Jews who rejected Christ, including Josephus, as far as we know, have no authority at all. Only those who accepted Christ, who quoted from the LXX in the Greek original of the New Testament, have any say in what is and is not authoritative. Interestingly St. Jude quoted 1 Enoch, so I myself am inclined to favor the Ethiopian Orthodox canon on that basis. The Ethiopians as much as any Christians are descended from Jews, the Beta Israel, and are as Jewish as Christians can be, so those Jews have authority, whereas the combined opinions of Josephus, the Masoretes, Maimonides, and others, I reject outright, just as I reject the views of Islam on Christ and Christianity. In no sense am I anti-Semitic; I love Jews, and their religion, which is closely related to ours, I simply reject the idea that the views of Judaism, which did not accept Christ as the Messiah, are in any respect auhoritative. Rather, the Church posesses the authority of the Apostles as a sacred inheritance.

 

[Wgw]

By the way, I do find it regrettable that Christians would prioritize Rabinnical doctrine over Holy Tradition. However the fact that we are even discussing Josephus, St. Jerome, et al, shows that sola scriptura is an untenable position; if the Bible were monolithic like the Quran it might work, but since the Bible consists of individual books and lacks a table of contents, one is forced to resort to Tradition in order to be able to identify it as such.

 

[Acts24Fourteen]

Oh, another 'used to be' Catholic. I see, now. The devil pried you away. There's only one Catholic.

Careful 'brother', its a dangerous thing to attribute that which Christ Jesus by/through the Holy Spirit hath done, to the devil, for even the Pharisees stated that Christ Jesus himself was devil possessed, even as they had of John the Baptist:

Matthew 11:18 KJB - For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

Luke 7:33 KJB - For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.

John 8:48 KJB - Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

John 10:20 KJB - And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
​

Therefore:

John 8:49 KJB - Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.​

John 8:26 KJB - I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.​

 

[BobRyan]

The Jews who rejected Christ, including Josephus, as far as we know, have no authority at all.

The Catholic church never "owned the OT" - they did not write it, it was not inspired by them and Christ read no RCC document to his disciples in Luke 24 when he was explaining 'all scripture' to them.

As we all agree.

What is more - Christ was not reading or speaking in Greek in Luke 24 - but rather Hebrew as this was the language of the Jews in Israel. The whole point of the LXX was for Jews outside of Israel who lost the ability to speak and read Hebrew.

details matter.

Only those who accepted Christ, who quoted from the LXX in the Greek original of the New Testament, have any say in what is and is not authoritative.

That statement is counter factual.

Hebrew text, Hebrew language spoken, yet translated by Luke into Greek for those readers outside of Israel

Luke 24

27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

 

[BobRyan]

The idea that scriptures have no meaning until blessed by the Catholic church -- is never found in the actual Bible.



Matthew 21:42
Jesus said to them, "Did you never read in the Scriptures,' THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone;THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD,AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES'?



Matthew 26:54
"How then will the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that it must happen this way?"


Matthew 26:56
"But all this has taken place to fulfill the Scriptures of the prophets." Then all the disciples left Him and fled.


Mark 14:49
"Every day I was with you in the temple teaching, and you did not seize Me; but this has taken place to fulfill the Scriptures."


Luke 4:21
And He began to say to them, "Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing."


Luke 24:27
Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.


Luke 24:32
They said to one another, "Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scriptures to us?"


Luke 24:45
Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,


John 2:22
So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.


John 5:39
[ Witness of the Scripture ] " You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;


John 7:38
"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'"


John 7:42
"Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the descendants of David, and from Bethlehem, the village where David was?"


John 10:35
"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),

John 13:18
" I do not speak of all of you I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ' HE WHO EATS MY BREAD HAS LIFTED UP HIS HEEL AGAINST ME.'

John 17:12
"While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
John 17:11-13 (in Context) John 17 (Whole Chapter)

John 19:24
So they said to one another, " Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it, to decide whose it shall be"; this was to fulfill the Scripture: "THEY DIVIDED MY OUTER GARMENTS AMONG THEM, AND FOR MY CLOTHING THEY CAST LOTS."
John 19:23-25 (in Context) John 19 (Whole Chapter)

John 19:28
After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, to fulfill the Scripture, said, " I am thirsty."


John 19:36
For these things came to pass to fulfill the Scripture, " NOT A BONE OF HIM SHALL BE BROKEN."


John 19:37
And again another Scripture says, " THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."


John 20:9
For as yet they did not understand the Scripture, that He must rise again from the dead.


Acts 1:16
"Brethren, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.


Acts 8:32
Now the passage of Scripture which he was reading was this:" HE WAS LED AS A SHEEP TO SLAUGHTER;AND AS A LAMB BEFORE ITS SHEARER IS SILENT,SO HE DOES NOT OPEN HIS MOUTH.


Acts 8:35
Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him.


Acts 17:2
And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,



Acts 17:11
Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.


Acts 18:24
Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures.


Acts 18:28
for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.


Romans 1:2
which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures,


Romans 4:3
For what does the Scripture say? " ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."


Romans 9:17
For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, " FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."


Romans 10:11
For the Scripture says, " WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."


Romans 11:2
God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?


Romans 15:4
For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.


Romans 16:26
but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;



1 Corinthians 15:3
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,


1 Corinthians 15:4
and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,


Galatians 3:8
The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, " ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."


Galatians 3:22
But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.


Galatians 4:30
But what does the Scripture say?" CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN."


1 Timothy 4:13
Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching.


1 Timothy 5:18
For the Scripture says, " YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING," and " The laborer is worthy of his wages."


2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;


James 2:8
If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, " YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.


James 2:23
and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, " AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.


James 4:5
Or do you think that the Scripture speaks to no purpose: " He jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us"?


1 Peter 2:6
For this is contained in Scripture:" BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone,AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

2 Peter 1:20
But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation,