The origins of atheism

[ScottA]

Again, there's no knowledge which cannot be shared regardless of personal belief. None.

That may be true among us lower life-forms...but that is not the topic of discussion. And you are not qualified to make such a statement...that's the point.

 

[Freodin]

Exactly, you accept a contradicting truth, which is no truth at all because logically truth should not contradict itself.

Not quite. My truth is not contradicting "truth"... it is contradicting your claim.

You right now assert that what I say is "no truth". You are free to do so. And so am I to assert that what you say is "no truth".

Our statements, our assertions, our claims... they contradict. That we both call them "truth" does nothing to show that it is.

You said that this "truth" was demonstrated to you, in a certain way. If you now deny that something that is demonstrated in exactly the same way is also "truth"... you have done nothing but shown that your way of demonstration does not reliably produce "truth".

It seems we need a different way... can you offer one?

 

[ScottA]

That is right Scott. I have asked numerous atheists to tell me how life began and to date, zilch, zero, nothing. In other words they don't know.

Another good question is: "And what happened before that?"

Eventually, they have to admit they don't know...which of course they deny even after admitting to it.

 

[ScottA]

We don't know how life began. Only difference with you is, we don't make stuff up.

No. If you must know, we believed that life was more than organic, and for doing so, we were given the answer of how life began...so now we know.

 

[Davian]

Sorry I'm on my phone, I didn't double check the name

The demonstration of truth goes to the core of your being, it's undeniable.

Yet by the time you post it here, it is reduced to opinion, or apparent self-deception. Have you considered why that happens?

 

[Davian]

Apparently you've never observed Davian's stock responses to the things I say.

If you are going to cut-and-paste your assertions, why should I make a greater effort in my responses?

 

[Freodin]

Well, yes, in mind. Science is an observation made by minds. Or does it happen somewhere else in your body?

You left out an important part. Science is an observation made by minds (because 'observations' are made by 'minds')... but they are observations of something outside of the mind, which can be tested, verified and falsified by something outside of the mind.

You cannot do that with your theistic claims.

 

[Davian]

For one, you're contradicting atheism by claiming it's true.

Atheism makes no claims about God, it acknowledges that God is not known to exist or not exist.

Oops, do I understand atheism better than you do?

Apparently not. One can take a position on a particular god, such as the "God" that allegedly walked and talked in a garden that has no evidence of having existed, poofed people and animals into existence, and later, in a manner contrary to the modern understanding of genetics, populated the planet with a tiny group of individuals and animals that survived a global flood in an unbuildable boat, a flood that killed the dinosaurs in a manner that only *appears* to be 65 million years ago, because the Earth is really only somehow 6000 years old, yet remains, by every objective measure to date indistinguishable from nothing. I am comfortable in saying that that god does not exist.

Would you agree, or is that your god?

 

[Davian]

It's impossible to have knowledge of the nonexistence of anything including God. Try again.

Of what significance is your "God"?

 

[Colter]

You left out an important part. Science is an observation made by minds (because 'observations' are made by 'minds')... but they are observations of something outside of the mind, which can be tested, verified and falsified by something outside of the mind.

You cannot do that with your theistic claims.

The realm of the spirit is contactable by mind, truth is experienced by mind. Mind is created by mind, we are children of the mind of God. Mind is apart from the universe that it observes. All the testing and verifying of the material world is of value to mind.

 

[Davian]

But you have left out the actual reason, the reason I gave you...which is the contingent requirement set down by God. We are His creation...so He decides what is required.

Also, yes, we both speak english, but you would have to believe me. And just as I would not trust you with my life (not at this point), you should not expect to trust me with yours...so believing my words is not realistic.

Well, there are a lot of wild stories trotted out into these forums. They can't all be taken a face value.

But I can explain just how it works, and I have,

You have made many assertions.

which is confirmed by countless people

The appeal to popularity is a fallacy.

down through the ages.

The appeal to antiquity is a fallacy.

But then you have to take it upon yourself. You are either a child of God and have it in you to see it through and trust in His requirements, or you are not His child, but only an animated part of his creation...which is a gift all by itself...but it does not include the bonus of eternal life.

You mean, the promise of eternal life.

“Selling eternal life is an unbeatable business, with no customers ever asking for their money back after the goods are not delivered.” ― Victor J. Stenger

 

[Davian]

If you require the wisdom of others

Is that a bad thing, Mr. "Walking with Einstein"?

to make your own decision...you still have to make it. What you decide, that is what you get. Go for it.

Sure, but belief is not a conscious decision, and I do not see your opinions as compelling.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That may be true among us lower life-forms...but that is not the topic of discussion. And you are not qualified to make such a statement...that's the point.

Of course I'm qualified lol...all it takes is a very basic level of reasoning.

So tell me what it is that stops you from sharing all this great knowledge that god gave you? Do your fingers turn paralyzed when you try to type it? Do you suddenly go blind? Do you forget who you are and what you were writing? How does god stop you?

 

[Davian]

Another good question is: "And what happened before that?"

Eventually, they have to admit they don't know...which of course they deny even after admitting to it.

Atheism is only a theological position on the question of deities. It has nothing to do with biology or chemistry.

 

[Davian]

No. If you must know, we believed that life was more than organic, and for doing so, we were given the answer of how life began...so now we know.

"goddidit" is not much of an explanation.

 

[Freodin]

The realm of the spirit is contactable by mind, truth is experienced by mind. Mind is created by mind, we are children of the mind of God. Mind is apart from the universe that it observes. All the testing and verifying of the material world is of value to mind.

Falsehood is also experienced by mind. Not everything "mind" is true. The map is not the country.

 

[ScottA]

The problem wit this analogy is that GM demonstrably exists.

God demonstrably exist too. The world is His demon-stration.

 

[ScottA]

"goddidit" is not much of an explanation.

You are misquoting Genesis.

 

[bhsmte]

God demonstrably exist too. The world is His demon-stration.

Can you demonstrate, in any objective way, that your God exists?

 

[Freodin]

God demonstrably exist too. The world is His demon-stration.

"The world" is the inevitable result of the "existence" (for want of a better term) of primal chaos.

That the world exists is demonstration that this claim is correct.