True or False Rom. 2:13

[Steeno7]

Yes, about that believing thing.

Faith 101:

James 2:14-26

Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Strange. It is only those who have believed and received Jesus Christ who do good works, it is only we who even can.

 

[Steeno7]

I haven't read most of Theodore's posts, but what i have read so far doesn't seem any worse than others. We should love each other. So maybe hes having trouble adjusting to this forum. Paul says that a teacher must be patient with people. If anyone here thinks they know anything then maybe they should be patient with others and prove that they know something. I see no need to try and throw people out of this forum, because that only hurts people. Love does no harm to it neighbor.

Time will tell.

 

[Steeno7]

Frankly I am not in a popularity contest and neither am I the author of "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13
If your soteriological conjecture is correct; that man's statement isn't, but he is not incorrect, you all are.

He's not incorrect, you are. He's saying that if you want to be under the Law, then you are under all of it, and its demand for righteousness is not your best effort, but doing what it demands. Doing all of what it demands. How are you doing at that??

 

[Poster0]

"that form of teaching" you have faith in is not what the apostles have taught. Your collective common error of judgement is the assumption that the word law in the OT or NT is always referencing the written Sinai code, but it isn't.

Perhaps you misunderstood my intention. I don't believe that the word "law" which is found in many places throughout the New Testament, is a one size fits all word. I believe that Its difficult to understand what the authors of the New Testament are actually saying if we dont first understand that the definition for the word "law" is dynamic. Im not sure if dynamic is the correct word, but i do understand that the word "law" refers to different things. Just as the word "command" or "commands" can also be easily misunderstood. For example, some people seem to misunderstood the scripture below. They assume that the word command in this scripture refers to every command that God ever spoke in the Old testament. However it does not refer to every command God ever spoke in the Old Testament.


1 John 2:3 And by this we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments

 

[Poster0]

Ummmm, because it's not??

Galatians 3:12
"...the Law is not of faith"

Is it not the law which says that we should love each other? Is that not faith as well? Did Paul not say that what matters is faith working by love? Isn't it then really saying "faith working by law of love"? Did James not say that faith without works is not real faith?

 

[SAAN]

Faith means nothing if its tied to willful disobedience. Just like saying I Love You to a significant other will mean absolutely nothing if you treat the person like garbage in return. Love is usually tied to the actions behind it and so is Faith. If you truly Love Jesus you will want to obey the commandments.

We keep Gods commandments because we ARE saved NOT to try to get saved.

 

[Steeno7]

Is it not the law which says that we should love each other? Is that not faith as well? Did Paul not say that what matters is faith working by love? Isn't it then really saying "faith working by law of love"? Did James not say that faith without works is not real faith?

It is hard to kick against the goads.

 

[Steeno7]

Faith means nothing if its tied to willful disobedience. Just like saying I Love You to a significant other will mean absolutely nothing if you treat the person like garbage in return. Love is usually tied to the actions behind it and so is Faith. If you truly Love Jesus you will want to obey the commandments.

We keep Gods commandments because we ARE saved NOT to try to get saved.

Those who live by faith in Christ are the obedient ones. All others are willfully disobedient.

 

[Poster0]

Faith means nothing if its tied to willful disobedience. Just like saying I Love You to a significant other will mean absolutely nothing if you treat the person like garbage in return. Love is usually tied to the actions behind it and so is Faith. If you truly Love Jesus you will want to obey the commandments.

We keep Gods commandments because we ARE saved NOT to try to get saved.

Furthermore we keep the commands because the Spirit teaches us and reminds us about those things. Its the spirit of truth which affirms them to be good and holy. We are wrong but Gods command is right. Abraham was counted as righteous because he believed Gods command. It wasn't because he believed that God exists, but that he believed that Gods command was the truth and the way. Christ said that he is the way, truth and life. Therefore the spirit guides us to believe that his commands are the way we must live, the truth which must guide us, and the life that we must follow in order to live. No christian can possibly throw out the Lords commands because the spirit will not allow him to do that, and a Christian will be very contrite when they fail. I believe its all a work of the spirit.


The scriptures are clear. Christians keep the words of Christ and His apostles, and they live by them because the Spirit guides them this way.


John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Ephesians 4:20 That, however, is not the way of life you learned 21 when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

25 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body. 26 “In your anger do not sin”[d]: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27 and do not give the devil a foothold. 28 Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.




John 14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

 

[Poster0]

It is hard to kick against the goads.

Please explain this. Thank you.

 

[Poster0]

Those who live by faith in Christ are the obedient ones. All others are willfully disobedient.

Yes, but as the scriptures say, faith in Christ is about believing in His commands. As James says, even the demons believe in God and they tremble. Abraham was counted righteous not because he was righteous or because he believed that God exists, but instead because he believed that Gods command was truth, and the way. He didnt rely on His own thinking but instead on Gods thinking. Faith without works is dead, and mans thinking is useless.

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

Perhaps you misunderstood my intention. I don't believe that the word "law" which is found in many places throughout the New Testament, is a one size fits all word. I believe that Its difficult to understand what the authors of the New Testament are actually saying if we dont first understand that the definition for the word "law" is dynamic. Im not sure if dynamic is the correct word, but i do understand that the word "law"
refers to different things

The word law in the OT or NT is referencing either the law written on stones, i.e. Sinai code, which Paul describes as the law of sin and death, or the law referenced in Isa. 2:3 "for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem." and Micah 4:2 states the same quote. Both Isa. and Micah are predicting a future event. On the day of Pentecost the message having been inscribed by the hand of the Mediator making a change of the law and through angels delivering it from heaven, the word REPENT was added into law regarding the sin of murdering Jesus Christ. Therefore the sin of his murder became an accountable sin for all by law so that whosoever has the faith to obey only this law by confessing directly to God that he is truly sorry Jesus was murdered will be declared righteous by God. However for the foolish and stubbornly stiffed necked who deliberately refuse to obey God this Way. They will ride a hell chute for not obeying God regarding the sin of murdering his only begotten son Jesus. God is not a respecter of persons and will not spare the guilty from his wrath by any other soteriological procedure. For every other way is unlawful.

 

[SAAN]

Those who live by faith in Christ are the obedient ones. All others are willfully disobedient.

Explain exactly what Faith in Christ is.

Is it just believing he is the son of God who died on the cross for your sins?

 

[Steeno7]

Yes, but as the scriptures say, faith in Christ is about believing in His commands. As James says, even the demons believe in God and they tremble. Abraham was counted righteous not because he was righteous or because he believed that God exists, but instead because he believed that Gods command was truth, and the way. He didnt rely on His own thinking but instead on Gods thinking. Faith without works is dead, and mans thinking is useless.

No, faith in Christ is faith in Christ. Yes the demons believe God is One, big deal, the Jews believed the same thing....it didn't save them either.

Faith without works isn't faith in Jesus Christ. Living faith is living because it is alive with the life of the living Christ.

 

[Poster0]

The word law in the OT or NT is referencing either the law written on stones, i.e. Sinai code, which Paul describes as the law of sin and death, or the law referenced in Isa. 2:3 "for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem." and Micah 4:2 states the same quote. Both Isa. and Micah are predicting a future event. On the day of Pentecost the message having been inscribed by the hand of the Mediator making a change of the law and through angels delivering it from heaven, the word REPENT was added into law regarding the sin of murdering Jesus Christ. Therefore the sin of his murder became an accountable sin for all by law so that whosoever has the faith to obey only this law by confessing directly to God that he is truly sorry Jesus was murdered will be declared righteous by God. However for the foolish and stubbornly stiffed necked who deliberately refuse to obey God this Way. They will ride a hell chute for not obeying God regarding the sin of murdering his only begotten son Jesus. God is not a respecter of persons and will not spare the guilty from his wrath by any other soteriological procedure. For every other way is unlawful.

Im not entirely sure what you mean, exactly. I do however feel confident that the spirit guides me. I put my trust in the Lord.

 

[Steeno7]

Explain exactly what Faith in Christ is.

Is it just believing he is the son of God who died on the cross for your sins?

It is trusting not in yourself, but in Christ alone.

 

[Poster0]

No, faith in Christ is faith in Christ. Yes the demons believe God is One, big deal, the Jews believed the same thing....it didn't save them either.

Faith without works isn't faith in Jesus Christ. Living faith is living because it is alive with the life of the living Christ.

To be alive in the living Christ is done first by hearing his words, including his commands given by the apostles. Jesus himself said that whoever loves him will keep his words and the spirit will come in and teach him, and remind him about all the things he spoke, even his commands. Therefore its not spiritual to throw out the lords commands because the spirit reminds us about every thing he taught. To throw out Christs commands is to not love him, as he himself has said

 

[Poster0]

It is trusting not in yourself, but in Christ alone.

To trust in Christ alone instead of myself, is to keep his words in my mind and heart. To trust in myself, is to throw out the Lords commands and lean on my own understanding instead.

If it is "Christ alone" within, instead of "I", then surely his words will stay in my heart because the spirit teaches us by those things, and reminds of about those things.

 

[Steeno7]

To be alive in the living Christ is done first be hearing his words, including his commands given by the apostles. Jesus himself said that whoever loves him will keep his words and the spirit will come in and teach him, and remind him about all the things he spoke, even his commands. Therefore its not spiritual to throw out the lords commands because the spirit reminds us about every thing he taught. To throw out Christs commands is to not love him, as he himself has said

Do you not recognize that Jesus Christ is in you?

 

[Poster0]

Do you not recognize that Jesus Christ is in you?

Of course, thats why i keep his words inside my heart and mind always. Its a work of the spirit teacher. The spirit teacher teaches me all things through the spirit of truth. The words and commands of Christ are the truth. The spirit teacher also reminds me of everything that Christ and His apostles have spoken. That's proof that he is within myself, because it is the work of the spirit within myself..