The origins of atheism

[KCfromNC]

Have you never considered that perception of the spirit realm might be a sixth sense, some people simply don't have? That you just don't have the right tools in your toolbox to analyze it, that you might be ill equipped?

Sure, and then rejected it as pointless speculation. If anyone comes up with a reliable way to demonstrate that some people actually have this alleged whatever it is, then it'll be time to reconsider. Until then, though, the most obvious explanation is that all of that is just in people's heads rather than refering to some external reality.

For people who generally believe in evolution...what about the possibility of humans evolving to have a sixth, spiritual sense?

Is that so far fetched?

Some people need more than "maybe it isn't impossible in theory" to believe in something. Hypotheticals are great and all, but until there's a reason to think they might be real there's little there but random guessing.

 

[gord44]

Gravity.

We see the effects of gravity.

And weight occurs when gravity is resisted.

But we don't see gravity.

Same with God.

We see the effects of God all around:

1. BC/AD
2. churches and other edifices erected in His name
3. holidays
4. iconography & statuary
5. Bibles, books, pamphlets & tracts
6. missionaries, martyrs and evangelists
7. Scripture references on public buildings
8. IN GOD WE TRUST & ONE NATION, UNDER GOD
9. plays, songs, hymns
10. organizations, hospitals, and study groups
11. debates, networks and discussion groups
12. various and other things

At least with that logic you admit God isn't limited to the Christian God.

 

[gord44]

Rome gave a large measure of its attention to eradicating our beliefs before they ever got started.

And Christianity got even in the end by eradicating various Pagan beliefs.

Today, people spend a lot of time on the Internet arguing against Someone they say doesn't exist.

Just people arguing for and against what they believe or see as true or not true. It's the human condition. Philosophers in old Greece did the same. Chinese sages did too. Christianity isn't the only target of doubters. Pretty much any belief or idea has doubters of some sort.

 

[AV1611VET]

At least with that logic you admit God isn't limited to the Christian God.

I'm not admitting that.

But yes, that logic can be applied to false gods as well.

 

[AirPo]

What about the effects of those who don't believe in God?

They are not the effects of God either.

Rome gave a large measure of its attention to eradicating our beliefs before they ever got started.

And my dog gave a large measure to where he pooped this morning.

Today, people spend a lot of time on the Internet arguing against Someone they say doesn't exist.

No they don't, unless you are implying that God posts on the internet. In that case, no they don't.

Even our Constitution was amended with a bill of rights to protect us from pogroms by those who believe otherwise.

It also protects those who believe otherwise from pogroms of "us". Isn't America great! :thumbs:

 

[AV1611VET]

And Christianity got even in the end by eradicating various Pagan beliefs.

I love how God sent His Son at just the right time.

Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

That broke the back of Saturnalia.

Just people arguing for and against what they believe or see as true or not true.

We call that "defending the faith."

It's the human condition.

And just like anything else, it can be misapplied.

Philosophers in old Greece did the same. Chinese sages did too.

I have a feeling everyone did it -- not just philosophers and sages.

Even my aunt could defend her faith -- as well as my niece.

Christianity isn't the only target of doubters.

It's okay for scientists to lambaste other peoples' religions.

But when they come after the true religion,* that's where I come in.

Jehu comes to mind.

He was one of God's "clean up men," but he went too far in his zeal to eradicate his target (which was Ahab and/or Jezebel, if my memory serves me correctly).

Pretty much any belief or idea has doubters of some sort.

Yup.

* I don't really consider Christianity a religion; but for the sake of arguing, I won't be pedantic here.

 

[AV1611VET]

No they don't,

Yes they do.

 

[AirPo]

Yes they do.

No, they don't.

 

[gord44]

* I don't really consider Christianity a religion; but for the sake of arguing, I won't be pedantic here.

Appreciated!

Btw... Big fan of the 1611 kjv. Was my favourite one to read.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Hello there everyone. I am sure this has been discussed before but I would like to start a new discussion on this. I want to hear your opinions on why do you think atheism exists and its cause. I will tell mine only after I see yours.

The origin of atheism is rather easy....
It came into existance with the first guy who wasn't gullible enough to simply swallow whatever supernatural claims were being made at that time.

 

[Wryetui]

The origin of atheism is rather easy....
It came into existance with the first guy who wasn't gullible enough to simply swallow whatever supernatural claims were being made at that time.

Do you consider me, the rest of the christians in the world, the saints of the Church, the Fathers of the Church (I know you don't have any idea of who am I talking about), the religious in the world and everyone who believes in a form of a god out there are naive, stupid and gullible?

 

[DogmaHunter]

It is rational to believe in the possibilty of God. Many people at some point rationaly believe in the possibilty of God, but some begin to assume God does not exist and this choice to assume is by their own free will.

After one chooses to assume God does not exist, they're lead down many different paths to false truths that leave them admitting they don't know why or how the universe or themselves came to exist.

A simple choice to assume God does exist or to rationally believe God is possible will get them back on the right path to finding the truth.

If someone really doesn't want God to exist, then they will get what they want and be separated from God. If someone deeply desires the truth, they will find the truth and be set free from the darkness.

Atheism is not the assumption that "god does not exist".
Atheism is not the belief that "god does not exist".

Atheism ONLY is answering "no" when being asked "do you believe god exists?".

Atheism is a single position on claims being made by other people.
Atheism doesn't have any claims, doctrines or dogma's of its own.

Atheism is not a "belief" of any kind.

 

[AV1611VET]

Appreciated!

Btw... Big fan of the 1611 kjv. Was my favourite one to read.

Thank you!

Second only to repenting and asking Jesus into their hearts; all I ask anyone to do here is read Galatians 3:26.

That's my life verse.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

I used to bring up another topic here, other than Thalidomide, Phlogiston, and Pluto.

But a poster took it very offensively, and I promised him that if he would just read Galatians 3:26, I would never mention it again.

He not only read it, but read practically the whole chapter.

And I haven't brought it up since then.

Later, a lady joined and was very offended at me bringing up Thalidomide, and I told her the same thing.

If she would just read Galatians 3:26, I would never bring it up again.

Instead, she left the forum and, unless she's posting here as a sockpuppet -- she hasn't been back since.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Do you consider me, the rest of the christians in the world, the saints of the Church, the Fathers of the Church (I know you don't have any idea of who am I talking about), the religious in the world and everyone who believes in a form of a god out there are naive, stupid and gullible?

Speaking for myself, no. Being religious doesn't necessarily imply that one is naive, stupid, or gullible. Being an atheist doesn't necessarily imply that one isn't naive, stupid, or gullible.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Do you consider me, the rest of the christians in the world, the saints of the Church, the Fathers of the Church (I know you don't have any idea of who am I talking about), the religious in the world and everyone who believes in a form of a god out there are naive, stupid and gullible?

I only said "gullible".

And yes, I do consider theists to be "gullible" to various degrees, relative to how fundamentalist they actually are. A YEC, for example, is much more gullible then a "theistic evolutionist".

EDIT: I'ld like to add that one can be gullible about certain things while not being gullible concerning other things. I am an atheist, which means that, in my reasoning, I am not gullible when it comes to claims of the supernatural. That doesn't mean that I'm not gullible in other area's of life. I hope I'm not and actively try not to be. I just wanted to nuance what I actually meant here. I didn't mean it in a generalised fashion. I don't mean that because one is a theist, that person could be fooled into believing anything. There's gradations in there all the way down. Being gullible in one area doesn't necessarily mean being gullible in other area's as well.

 

[Wryetui]

Speaking for myself, no. Being religious doesn't necessarily imply that one is naive, stupid, or gullible. Being an atheist doesn't necessarily imply that one isn't naive, stupid, or gullible.

I know. I come from a country (Romania) where freedom is a recent thing, about 20 years ago, people were forced to be atheists with the same claims and arguments I still listen today, churches were destroyed and you could loose your job easily if they saw you go to Church, a huge amount of monasteries were banned, monks were threw out, instead of religion in schools there was a class called "Atheism", people were brainwashed into forcingly believing God was not real and only a product of their minds, that religion is a cancer that will eventually be removed and the believers that dared to talk against the system were threw into jail enduring horrendous sufferings, forcing them to insult the Virgin Mary and Christ, to spit on crosses and to kill their own family members, but even if they were forces, they did not even dare to do it because people still knew in their hearts the means of "sacred", and the means of "satanic" too, so why would they please Satan if they could please God? And here we are, Romania is now the 4th religious country in the world with 96% of the people affirming there is a God called Christ, in spite of all the sufferings the Church went through, there it is, alive and moving, fullfilling Christ's promise: "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it." And they didn't overpower it.

The point is that there are people that were forced by their parents to don't believe in God and to despise everything that can be sacred, so not only brainwashed believers are gullible.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I know. I come from a country (Romania) where freedom is a recent thing, about 20 years ago, people were forced to be atheists

Communism is a horrible thing.

The point is that there are people that were forced by their parents to don't believe in God and to despise everything that can be sacred, so not only brainwashed believers are gullible.

No one is saying otherwise.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[ScottA]

No, if I was trying to explain infinity it would be very dimensional since my understanding of infinity requires dimensions for it to exist in.

Congratulations, you just defined the meaning of a closed mind.

 

[Belk]

Congratulations, you just defined the meaning of a closed mind.

Feel free to offer your open minded explanation of a non dimensional infinity.

 

[Davian]

Good.

Keep up the good work. I gave you a whole list of how-sos.

The effects of religionists do not require actual gods, do they?