The origins of atheism

[Eudaimonist]

I see. You want freedom in your thought. You don't like restrictions (teachings) given by this system and that system.

It's not a matter of "not liking restrictions". Liking or not liking has nothing to do with it. I might like a particular system. The issue is about what is productive of knowledge, and what impedes or stunts knowledge.

If so, where do you put the value of learning? A major part of learning is trying to accept something which is alien and difficult to you at the first place. Is it a good thing for a child to go to school? How many children like schooling? Do they have to do it?

Learning is a good and necessary thing, but as one of my teachers once put it: "schooling isn't done to tell you what to think so much as to train you how to think". In other words, schooling will have been fully successful when individuals are capable of thinking for themselves. A background of knowledge helps, but it may be questioned.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Archaeopteryx]

No ,a wonderful beautifully explained piece of Truth . Poor you that you refuse to or
are unable to enter in .

Is there a particular reason you capitalised "Truth"?

 

[juvenissun]

It's not a matter of "not liking restrictions". Liking or not liking has nothing to do with it. I might like a particular system. The issue is about what is productive of knowledge, and what impedes or stunts knowledge.

eudaimonia,

Mark

I think you are very confident in trusting yourself on a judgement. I can not do that. You give me a piece of knowledge, I would have hard time to tell if it is a productive one or a impedimental one. In fact, these two terms are not right to describe a knowledge. Both of them point to a goal. And we do not know what that goal is.

For example, medical report says that we should not eat to many eggs per day. Would you eat 4 eggs per day? Is that knowledge productive or impedimental?

You said you are not a Humanist. I say you are. You exalt human as one who should decide everything.

 

[Oafman]

I don't think it is true.
EVERY aboriginal tribes HAS a religion. So, the very first man must be a theist.

In as much as there was a 'first man', they may well have been theists. It is thought that other hominid species had religious ceremonies, so we might have inherited it from them.

But go back far enough, and you'll find ancestors of humans who were not theists.

 

[juvenissun]

In as much as there was a 'first man', they may well have been theists. It is thought that other hominid species had religious ceremonies, so we might have inherited it from them.

But go back far enough, and you'll find ancestors of humans who were not theists.

May be. Then they were not human.
Animals are all atheists.

 

[davedajobauk]

Well, I think man's cognitive abilities, has no choice, in that decision-making

I found a page that completely explores and cements my thinking on this matter

http://www.science20.com/writer_on_...s_might_not_exist_and_thats_not_a_joke-139982

 

[quatona]

Well, I think man's cognitive abilities, has no choice, in that decision-making

I found a page that completely explores and cements my thinking on this matter

http://www.science20.com/writer_on_...s_might_not_exist_and_thats_not_a_joke-139982

"Scientist discover that (...) may not (...)".
Alright.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Well, I think man's cognitive abilities, has no choice, in that decision-making

I found a page that completely explores and cements my thinking on this matter

http://www.science20.com/writer_on_...s_might_not_exist_and_thats_not_a_joke-139982

A response from Jerry Coyne.

 

[davedajobauk]

God is not something they can hold in their hands
they, cannot see Him, touch Him, hear Him
So, to them, God is something that Christians 'foolishly' believe in

But Christians, they(we) believe, that God hears, even the groanings of our hearts
(an inaudible 'crescendo' of emotional feelings, of despair)

Let us not deny the existence of, Satan, either
Nor, his works, to unseat God's authority in the World
Satan's army, are tempters and denialists 'for the cause'

 

[Wryetui]

Is there a particular reason you capitalised "Truth"?

Every name must be capitalised. As my name "Alex" is capitalised, so hte name "Truth" must be, since Truth is not an idea or something abstract but a very real person, called Jesus Christ, God. He said so, "I am the Truth, the Way and the Life".

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Every name must be capitalised. As my name "Alex" is capitalised, so hte name "Truth" must be, since Truth is not an idea or something abstract but a very real person, called Jesus Christ, God. He said so, "I am the Truth, the Way and the Life".

It's not a name.

 

[AnotherAtheist]

Atheists exist because some people don't believe that there is a God.

If theists feel there is something wrong with that, then the obvious thing to do about it is provide strong objective evidence that there is a God. If after thousands of years of Christianity (not to mention tens or over a hundred thousand years of religion), there is still no strong objective evidence for God, that does ask the question of why this evidence is missing.

 

[Chriliman]

I had started to question God's existence. I discovered that I had simply assumed that God exists on the authority of adults. I discovered that I didn't have any rational reason to think that God was even a "possibility".

There is a rational reason to believe God is possible and I can explain it with a simple question and answer thought exercise:

Q: Is it possible to know an eternal infinite God does not exist?

A: No

Q: Since we don't know an eternal infinite God does not exist, does this mean it's possible that an eternal infinite God created the universe.

If we say Yes, this means we're accepting the truth that this eternal infinite God is possible and could have created the universe. This is the most rational answer to the question, thus showing it is rational to believe God is possible.

If we say No, this means we're rejecting the truth that this eternal infinite God is possible.

How can we reject that possible truth when we actually don't know if this eternal infinite God does not exist? Doesn't the fact that we don't know mean that this God could possibly exist and we can rationally accept this as a true possibility?

 

[AnotherAtheist]

There is a rational reason to believe God is possible and I can explain it with a simple question and answer thought exercise:

Q: Is it possible to know an eternal infinite God does not exist?

A: No

Q: Since we don't know an eternal infinite God does not exist, does this mean it's possible that an eternal infinite God created the universe.

If we say Yes, this means we're accepting the truth that this eternal infinite God is possible and could have created the universe. This is the most rational answer to the question, thus showing it is rational to believe God is possible.

If we say No, this means we're rejecting the truth that this eternal infinite God is possible.

How can we reject that possible truth when we actually don't know if this eternal infinite God does not exist? Doesn't the fact that we don't know mean that this God could possibly exist and we can rationally accept this as a true possibility?

Accepting that something is possible is very different from accepting that there is any probability at all of it happening. E.g. it's possible that on Saturn's moon Titan there is a 100 foot high statue of Elvis Presley carved in ice. What is the probability that there is such a statue? How close to zero do you want to get? But, I can't prove that there isn't and it would only take an advanced alien civilisation with a weird sense of humour for it to be true.

 

[quatona]

There is a rational reason to believe God is possible

Since atheism doesn´t posit "God is impossible", this is completely irrelevant.

 

[AirPo]

Atheism is a spiritual problem, not an intellectual one.

In other words, it stems from the heart, not the brain.

Psalm 14:1a The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

Of course there's the flip side of the coin, the fool hath said, in his brain, "The Bible said it, I believe it, that settles it."

 

[Goonie]

Accepting that something is possible is very different from accepting that there is any probability at all of it happening. E.g. it's possible that on Saturn's moon Titan there is a 100 foot high statue of Elvis Presley carved in ice. What is the probability that there is such a statue? How close to zero do you want to get? But, I can't prove that there isn't and it would only take an advanced alien civilisation with a weird sense of humour for it to be true.

What you mean Elvis was not abducted by aliens!

 

[davedajobauk]

Atheists can disbelieve whatever they want
(ie: respect from me, for, their chosen choice)
That still doesn't, make it seem 'like the right thing for them to choose' _it's THEIR choice
Because Jesus knows, that He will not come to save everyone
~although that, might be His desire
It's God that will sort, the 'goats' from the 'sheep' in His day

In the very real hope
that my beliefs truly matter (to myself) and also, to those, with whom I come into contact
I would much sooner, spend my life avoiding my / any participation in evil acts
than I would, spend my life 'enjoying sin' ~regardless, of His promise
of, 'eternal life' for those that follow Him (The WAY)

If the atheists are proven correct....then I will (one day) have completed my stay here
in ways that have made me happy, content and feeling blessed
Ways, in which others have been reassured, comforted, supported and encouraged
because-of, my presence in their lives (at very useful [fortuitous] times, in their lives)

They call it 'coincidence', 'chance' even 'luck'
I feel it to be 'spirit led' [meant to occur] Divine inspiration

 

[pshun2404]

Before even our distant ancestors had evolved the imagination to create all of the various religions, there was atheism.

Can you supply any examples we can consider?

 

[Eudaimonist]

Q: Is it possible to know an eternal infinite God does not exist?

A: No

Not knowing that something doesn't exist doesn't do anything to give reasons to think that it does or might. That's just an argument from ignorance. That is the trail that your thought experiment follows.

If I am to assert knowledge that something actually could be real, not simply imagined to be possible, I need something more than the recognition that I'm not omniscient.


eudaimonia,

Mark