Near perfect existence

[Davian]

The first passage is Jesus telling us that we must put Him before our family, not abandon them.

The second passage is addressed to a rich young ruler who had great wealth which he put before God. I am not such a one. But the principle remains. I am to follow Christ even if it means offering up to Him those things most important to me.

Metaphorical then. How convenient.

You still haven't answered my question: What options are available to me on that earlier subject, other than 'dead'?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Assume that He is alive for a moment and is who He said He was. If you believed He was who He said He was, would you place your hope and trust in Him as He encouraged us to do? Would you be willing to do His will and forsake your own? Would you be willing to take up your cross daily and follow Him?

Why should we assume that?

 

[anonymous person]

Why should we assume that?

Because I asked you to.

 

[anonymous person]

Metaphorical then. How convenient.

You still haven't answered my question: What options are available to me on that earlier subject, other than 'dead'?

No precept from God is convenient to the carnal, sinful flesh, but diametrically opposed to it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Because I asked you to.

Assuming what you said...no.

It would seem to me that either this god is lying about himself, or doesn't understand himself as well as I do.

 

[anonymous person]

Assuming what you said...no.

It would seem to me that either this god is lying about himself, or doesn't understand himself as well as I do.

What did Jesus say that leads you to believe that He was lying about Himself or that He did not understand Himself as well as you do?

It seems to me from your statements, that you are not a follower of Christ not because of some lack of evidence, but rather because you have something against Christ. You in some sense see Him as someone simply not worth trusting and hoping in and following. You think yourself more righteous than He. You feel you can get along pretty well without Him it seems.

 

[Ana the Ist]

What did Jesus say that leads you to believe that He was lying about Himself or that He did not understand Himself as well as you do?

It seems to me from your statements, that you are not a follower of Christ not because of some lack of evidence, but rather because you have something against Christ. You in some sense see Him as someone simply not worth trusting and hoping in and following. You think yourself more righteous than He. You feel you can get along pretty well without Him it seems.

No...it's a total lack of evidence, I don't even think Jesus existed. You're asking me to assume that he did though and that he genuinely believes all he says.

Do you still want me to answer?

 

[Davian]

No precept from God

...or from your interpretation of the Bible...

is convenient to the carnal, sinful flesh, but diametrically opposed to it.

Sure, but you did not address my question.

You said, "You think Him dead".

What options are available to me on that subject, other than 'dead'?

 

[anonymous person]

No...it's a total lack of evidence, I don't even think Jesus existed. You're asking me to assume that he did though and that he genuinely believes all he says.

Do you still want me to answer?

Well it is a hypothetical question. You do not have to answer it if for some reason you do not want to.

 

[anonymous person]

...or from your interpretation of the Bible...

Sure, but you did not address my question.

You said, "You think Him dead".

What options are available to me on that subject, other than 'dead'?

Alive.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Well it is a hypothetical question. You do not have to answer it if for some reason you do not want to.

Well when you said all that stuff about my reasons for disbelief...it's almost like you forgot that you wanted to start with those assumptions. Now that you remember...I guess I'll answer...

It looks like your god is really bad at a lot of stuff....for example...

He's really bad at making a universe.
He's really bad at making life.
He's really bad at making morals.
He's really bad at following morals.
He's really bad at justice.
He's really shortsighted.
He's downright awful at communication.


So if you start to realize these things...you can see how contradict his narrative. A lot of his narrative really. So the basic conclusion to draw is that he's wrong about himself...and subsequently a lot of other stuff.

 

[Ana the Ist]

In other words...

Reality contradicts the story your god put out.

 

[Davian]

Alive.

By "alive" do you mean breathing, consuming, excreting, and subject to entropy? Explain how he isn't dead after all of this time, if he is human.

Or, is he a tree?

 

[Davian]

In other words...

Reality contradicts the story your god put out.

Sure, but with eternal life on the line, and a promise of Heaven, can you not just overlook the dearth of evidence, the conflicts with mainstream science, and a few outrageous moral concepts?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sure, but with eternal life on the line, and a promise of Heaven, can you not just overlook the dearth of evidence, the conflicts with mainstream science, and a few outrageous moral concepts?

Lol I used to think that I'd like to...that I'd be happier somehow.

Then you come to a forum like this and see it creates more problems than it could ever solve.

 

[anonymous person]

By "alive" do you mean breathing, consuming, excreting, and subject to entropy? Explain how he isn't dead after all of this time, if he is human.

Or, is he a tree?

None of the above.

 

[anonymous person]

Well when you said all that stuff about my reasons for disbelief...it's almost like you forgot that you wanted to start with those assumptions. Now that you remember...I guess I'll answer...

It looks like your god is really bad at a lot of stuff....for example...

He's really bad at making a universe.
He's really bad at making life.
He's really bad at making morals.
He's really bad at following morals.
He's really bad at justice.
He's really shortsighted.
He's downright awful at communication.


So if you start to realize these things...you can see how contradict his narrative. A lot of his narrative really. So the basic conclusion to draw is that he's wrong about himself...and subsequently a lot of other stuff.

Well what you said seems to confirm what I thought. Notice I said earlier that:

You in some sense see Him as someone simply not worth trusting and hoping in and following. You think yourself more righteous than He. You feel you can get along pretty well without Him it seems.

You talked about Jesus being really bad at making morals, following morals, and justice.

What is it that Jesus is recorded as having said and done that gives you the above impression?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Well what you said seems to confirm what I thought. Notice I said earlier that:

You in some sense see Him as someone simply not worth trusting and hoping in and following. You think yourself more righteous than He. You feel you can get along pretty well without Him it seems.

You talked about Jesus being really bad at making morals, following morals, and justice.

What is it that Jesus is recorded as having said and done that gives you the above impression?

Killing everyone in a flood is abysmally evil....wouldn't you agree?

Even on a more basic level than that...if I knew my actions would somehow inadvertently cause the eternal suffering of countless creatures...I wouldn't do those actions at all.

These problems are secondary though...try not to forget that you're asking me to imagine a being exists that I don't think exists. That way you won't confuse the reasons I'm giving you now for my reasons.

 

[Davian]

None of the above.

Ah, the religionist's game of telling me what their god isn't. Isn't detectable. Isn't testable. Isn't presentable. Isn't definable.

Is there anything else that your god isn't?

 

[Davian]

Lol I used to think that I'd like to...that I'd be happier somehow.

Then you come to a forum like this and see it creates more problems than it could ever solve.

I have never been a believer, so for me all this just confirms that theology is like trying to carry a live octopus in a string handbag - there is always a bit hanging out that they are unable to reconcile.