Pictures of Jesus.

[Bible Highlighter]

I'd rather not believe in a power that is going to scourge me for honoring them in a painting. It isn't idolatry anymore than having a picture of your father on a wall.

God doesn't say that you can't make images of people that you love. He only forbids that you make images of him because we cannot capture what He really looks like. He is also alot more than some picture on a page. God is Spirit. God is not an image. God is Spirit and they that worship him are to worship him in spirit and in truth.


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[topcare]

The iconic image of Christ Pantocrator was one of the first images of Christ developed in the Early Christian Church and remains a central icon of the Eastern Orthodox Church. In the half-length image, Christ holds the New Testament in his left hand and makes the gesture of teaching or of blessing with his right.

Best you know what your talking abut before you sprout fundamentalist silliness

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The iconic image of Christ Pantocrator was one of the first images of Christ developed in the Early Christian Church and remains a central icon of the Eastern Orthodox Church. In the half-length image, Christ holds the New Testament in his left hand and makes the gesture of teaching or of blessing with his right.

Best you know what your talking abut before you sprout fundamentalist silliness

How old is that piece of artwork? Was it created during the time of Jesus? if so, then I do not believe you. Besides, it is not a coincidence that there is a sun symbol behind his head like that in pagan art. It is also not a coincidence that he is making a hand gesture appears in other artworks that match up with new age work, as well. Also, the Scriptures themselves say we are not to make an image of God, too.

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[seashale76]

Actually I see pagan elements in this photo and his hand gesture is of the new age, as well.

Here is another photo of Jesus that is similar.

Notice the circle like sun behind the head that is common in many of these types of images of Jesus.

Let's look at some pagan art.

See the sun like circle behind their heads?

Also, notice the hand gesture of the picture of Jesus I had shown. Here is a similar hand gesture in this new age Buddah statue.

I can always tell when someone doesn't read my post before responding to it. It's pointless to have a discussion with someone that can't be bothered. However, I will say this: Why do you have issues with the idea of symbolism?

 

[seashale76]

How old is that piece of artwork? Was it created during the time of Jesus? if so, then I do not believe you. Besides, it is not a coincidence that there is a sun symbol behind his head like that in pagan art. It is also not a coincidence that he is making a hand gesture appears in other artworks that match up with new age work, as well. Also, the Scriptures themselves say we are not to make an image of God, too.

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Go back and read my post and maybe you'll see that the answers are there. The hand gesture is IC XC (Greek for Jesus Christ). It's a gesture of blessing. And, we believe that St. Luke was the first person to paint an icon of Christ and his mother.

 

[topcare]

How old is that piece of artwork? Was it created during the time of Jesus? if so, then I do not believe you. Besides, it is not a coincidence that there is a sun symbol behind his head like that in pagan art. It is also not a coincidence that he is making a hand gesture appears in other artworks that match up with new age work, as well. Also, the Scriptures themselves say we are not to make an image of God, too.

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oh brother, always one in the crowd who thinks Christianity only began in the now.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Nowhere did I say Christianity began now. That would be silly. I am a Christian and I believe in the Bible. What I don't believe in is some sort of painting as if that hinged on Christianity, nor do I believe that such a painting is actually an authentic representation of Christ, either.

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[Bible Highlighter]

I can always tell when someone doesn't read my post before responding to it. It's pointless to have a discussion with someone that can't be bothered. However, I will say this: Why do you have issues with the idea of symbolism?

It's a matter of making an image out of God is what I have a problem with because the Bible forbids such a thing. Creating an idol is to create an image of what one would think God is like. The Israelites created an image of a calf and regarded it as their new god. But it was a false image, though. It was not in any way what God looked like. We are not to create or look to false images that represent our LORD. Even the apostles said that they no longer regard him after the flesh anymore.


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[seashale76]

It's a matter of making an image out of God is what I have a problem with because the Bible forbids such a thing. Creating an idol is to create an image of what one would think God is like. The Israelites created an image of a calf and regarded it as their new god. But it was a false image, though. It was not in any way what God looked like. We are not to create or look to false images that represent our LORD. Even the apostles said that they no longer regard him after the flesh anymore.


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And- you still haven't read my first post in this thread.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And- you still haven't read my first post in this thread.

I did not agree with it, so I skimmed thru it. I went back just now to see if there was anything of value (Just in case I missed anything). There is nothing I missed. I still disagree with your findings and find them to be unbiblical. We are not to make an image of something that you think would represent God. Can you make an image of something that is not what you would regard as God? Yes, you can. But we are not to create an image that could be turned into an idol or into a picture of the One we worship, though.

Nobody knows what Jesus' looked like.
Creating a false image of Him that will put a false picture of Jesus in people's minds is not the truth, but.... a lie.


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[seashale76]

I did not agree with it, so I skimmed thru it. I went back just now to see if there was anything of value (Just in case I missed anything). There is nothing I missed. I still disagree with your findings and find them to be unbiblical. We are not to make an image of something that you think would represent God. Can you make an image of something that is not what you would regard as God? Yes, you can. But we are not to create an image that could be turned into an idol or into a picture of the One we worship, though.

Nobody knows what Jesus' looked like.
Creating a false image of Him that will put a false picture of Jesus in people's minds is not the truth, but.... a lie.
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A) They're not idols. We don't worship the images.
B) Christ can be represented because He came in the flesh. He was even represented by one that knew Him in the flesh.
C) People have been converted via seeing icons.
D) Don't fall into the trap of attempting to tell those of us that use icons what we're actually doing or believe about them after the time has been taken to tell you otherwise, because that's straw man territory.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

A) They're not idols. We don't worship the images.
B) Christ can be represented because He came in the flesh. He was even represented by one that knew Him in the flesh.
C) People have been converted via seeing icons.
D) Don't fall into the trap of attempting to tell those of us that use icons what we're actually doing or believe about them after the time has been taken to tell you otherwise, because that's straw man territory.

I disagree. They do worship the image (Sometimes it is directly and other times it is indirectly). People pray thinking of the false image of Jesus that they keep getting bombarded with. People praise Him thinking or picturing Him as artists render Him. The damage is done already. In other words, it would be like keeping the golden calf statue around and telling people not to bow down to it. It would not matter, their walking passed it every day would give them the mental picture they would need to pray, and praise their calf god in their mind within the privacy of their bedroom at night.

For if they do not regard the statue as having no value or worth, then they would not be converted by such said statue (i.e. for them to have a spiritual experience with such an idol that can then lead to them to have even more spiritual experiences with it).

Having a spiritual experience can be a form of worship or adoration of your God.

However, Scripture says faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. So no. I do not believe in statue or artwork conversions.

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[seashale76]

I disagree. They do worship the image (Sometimes it is directly and other times it is indirectly). People pray thinking of the false image of Jesus that they keep getting bombarded with. People praise Him thinking or picturing Him as artists render Him. The damage is done already. In other words, it would be like keeping the golden calf statue around and telling people not to bow down to it. It would not matter, their walking passed it every day would give them the mental picture they would need to pray, and praise their calf god in their mind within the privacy of their bedroom at night.

For if they do not regard the statue as having no value or worth, then they would not be converted by such said statue (i.e. for them to have a spiritual experience with such an idol that can then lead to them to have even more spiritual experiences with it).

Having a spiritual experience is a form of worship.

However, Scripture says faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. So no. I do not believe in statue or artwork conversions.

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I don't worship icons or consider them as idols. Icons are considered to be 'written'. They physically represent Christ, the saints, and the gospel. Symbolism is everything. These images do and have convert people.

ETA- Icon veneration is not worship. For example, in real life, I kiss the hand of my priest and bishop. During Forgiveness Vespers every year, some people will even prostrate before others. We're not worshipping them or each other.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't worship icons or consider them as idols. Icons are considered to be 'written'. They physically represent Christ, the saints, and the gospel. Symbolism is everything. These images do and have convert people.

People can be converted to Satanism. That does not mean Satanism is true. And no; "icons", or "images", or "idols" have nothing to do with the gospel and Christ. Yes, I believe the Bible uses symbolic language. But nowhere does the Bible tell us to create images and to regard them as being holy. On the contrary we are warned against doing such things.

Show me a Scripture reference where believers were converted by images or statues.


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[seashale76]

People can be converted to Satanism. That does not mean Satanism is true. And no; "icons", or "images", or "idols" have nothing to do with the gospel and Christ. Yes, I believe the Bible uses symbolic language. But nowhere does the Bible tell us to create images and to regard them as being holy. On the contrary we are warned against doing such things.

Show me a Scripture reference where believers were converted by images or statues.
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I'm not sola scriptura (an ironic teaching considering that without the theology of the Church those that adhere to this view reject- they wouldn't have any scriptures to claim sola scriptura over- i.e. the Church with its Tradition existed before the New Testament and even verified the scriptures). Christian theology doesn't only come from the scriptures. Icons help preserve the doctrinal teachings of the Church. To me (and other Orthodox Christians) icons aren't optional. We venerate them, they are integral to the life of the Church, representing what has been revealed to us, they promote correct theology, and they represent the great cloud of witnesses and the intercessions of the saints. Icons ALWAYS point towards our salvation in Christ and His Incarnation as the Living Word.

As St. John of Damascus said, 'The invisible things of God have been made visible.' Deuteronomy 5:7-9 is against making images of an invisible God that couldn't be seen. Exodus 33:20 tells us we haven't seen God's face- but the very existence of the Incarnation of Christ upended this. The unseen became seen. God took on flesh. https://www.christianhistoryinstitute.org/study/module/john-of-damascus/

Iconoclasm is simply a way people have tried to deny the Incarnation.
https://dormitioninconcord.wordpres...om-the-procession-on-the-sunday-of-orthodoxy/

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

God appeared to us as Christ and Christ was visible. This changes things.

So God changes?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm not sola scriptura (an ironic teaching considering that without the theology of the Church those that adhere to this view reject- they wouldn't have any scriptures to claim sola scriptura over- i.e. the Church with its Tradition existed before the New Testament and even verified the scriptures). Christian theology doesn't only come from the scriptures. Icons help preserve the doctrinal teachings of the Church. To me (and other Orthodox Christians) icons aren't optional. We venerate them, they are integral to the life of the Church, representing what has been revealed to us, they promote correct theology, and they represent the great cloud of witnesses and the intercessions of the saints. Icons ALWAYS point towards our salvation in Christ and His Incarnation as the Living Word.

As St. John of Damascus said, 'The invisible things of God have been made visible.' Deuteronomy 5:7-9 is against making images of an invisible God that couldn't be seen. Exodus 33:20 tells us we haven't seen God's face- but the very existence of the Incarnation of Christ upended this. The unseen became seen. God took on flesh. https://www.christianhistoryinstitute.org/study/module/john-of-damascus/

Iconoclasm is simply a way people have tried to deny the Incarnation.

The Bible itself defends Sola Scriptura. Here are eight points in Scripture.

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...nse-to-sin-moved.7902727/page-2#post-68476798
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...nse-to-sin-moved.7902727/page-2#post-68476802


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[seashale76]

The Bible itself defends Sola Scriptura. Here are eight points in Scripture.

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...nse-to-sin-moved.7902727/page-2#post-68476798
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...nse-to-sin-moved.7902727/page-2#post-68476802
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I don't recognize your Reformation doctrines.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't recognize your Reformation doctrines.

No reformation involved. It was a personal study on the Word of God I did myself. You either want to see it or you don't want to see it.


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[Bible Highlighter]

In fact, one of the marks of a Berean in them being more noble is that they:

(a) Were open minded.
(b) Searched the Scriptures to see whether those things were so or not.


Acts 17:11


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