Pictures of Jesus.

[Bible Highlighter]

One of the Ten Commandments says we are not to make an image of anything up in Heaven. Jesus is at the right hand of God in Heaven. Granted, many Christians are not bowing down to these images, but many of them DO think the popular drawings of Jesus are a representation of Jesus Christ (Who is the One we worship). However, nobody truly knows what Jesus really looked like today. These drawings are only representations of artist's imaginations. It's not truth. It's a promotion of untruth. In other words, there are many Christians who worship and pray to Jesus visualizing in their mind that He looks like a white American or European when in reality he was actually "Semitic" (i.e. Semtic is a word taken from the word "Shem", one of Noah's sons). Semitic people are mid tone in complexion. For Jesus was a Hebrew (i.e. a Jew). He is not a white American / European. Now, there has been a few semitic renditions of Jesus, but again: This would not be an accurate image of Jesus and what he really looks like.

I think it is bad enough that people are making images of him, then they have to make things even worse by erasing His Jewish heritage by making him into a white American or European when he is actually Semitic type person in appearance. So every time someone posts an image of Jesus (Which is usually a white person like myself), I say, "That is not Jesus." We do not know what He actually looks like. So it is my admonishment to all those out there who do posts pictures of Jesus, to stop displaying images of Him as if this was Jesus. Yes, we can read a comic to our kids that might have a comic rendition of Jesus so they can learn the Bible, but it must be explained to them that this is not what Jesus really looks like. What say you?


...

 

[graceandpeace]

Jesus is not just the Son of God, but also man. He is the Icon, the Image, of the invisible God. So yes, I am fine with visual representations of him, however diverse. Icons & similar imagery may not be literal "photographs," but they help me focus on the One they portray.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus is not just the Son of God, but also man. He is the Icon, the Image, of the invisible God. So yes, I am fine with visual representations of him, however diverse. Icons & similar imagery may not be literal "photographs," but they help me focus on the One they portray.

So you think the Commandment to not make an image of anything up in Heaven has changed? Granted, I believe the Law has changed; But I do not believe this applies to the moral laws, though. Besides, in the New Testament, we are told to keep ourselves from idols.


....

 

[Eryk]

God appeared to us as Christ and Christ was visible. This changes things. It should be understood that an image of Christ is a representation of the divine person (the incarnate Son of God) but it is not an image of the divine nature - and Christian artists don't pretend it is.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God appeared to us as Christ and Christ was visible. This changes things. It should be understood that an image of Christ is a representation of the divine person (the incarnate Son of God) but it is not an image of the divine nature - and Christian artists don't pretend it is.

Nowhere did Jesus ever say for any of his followers to make idol images of Him so as to worship. Even the apostles say that they do not even regard him after the flesh anymore. Yes, Jesus still has a physical body even now; But we really do not know what that body looks like. Artists have many ideas of what he might have looked like (But we really cannot know for sure). Settingly on some image that may or may not be true, is to make an idol image. It is not correct to do so.


...

 

[zippy2]

One of the Ten Commandments says we are not to make an image of anything up in Heaven. Jesus is at the right hand of God in Heaven. Granted, many Christians are not bowing down to these images, but many of them DO think the popular drawings of Jesus are a representation of Jesus Christ (Who is the One we worship). However, nobody truly knows what Jesus really looked like today. These drawings are only representations of artist's imaginations. It's not truth. It's a promotion of untruth. In other words, there are many Christians who worship and pray to Jesus visualizing in their mind that He looks like a white American or European when in reality he was actually "Semitic" (i.e. Semtic is a word taken from the word "Shem", one of Noah's sons). Semitic people are mid tone in complexion. For Jesus was a Hebrew (i.e. a Jew). He is not a white American / European. Now, there has been a few semitic renditions of Jesus, but again: This would not be an accurate image of Jesus and what he really looks like.

I think it is bad enough that people are making images of him, then they have to make things even worse by erasing His Jewish heritage by making him into a white American or European when he is actually Semitic type person in appearance. So every time someone posts an image of Jesus (Which is usually a white person like myself), I say, "That is not Jesus." We do not know what He actually looks like. So it is my admonishment to all those out there who do posts pictures of Jesus, to stop displaying images of Him as if this was Jesus. Yes, we can read a comic to our kids that might have a comic rendition of Jesus so they can learn the Bible, but it must be explained to them that this is not what Jesus really looks like. What say you?


...

I agree. We are not to worship an image of anything or anyone. That is very dangerous territory imho. And of course the evil one will ask us to do just that...worship the image of someone. So, we the church should keep this in mind.
Good post.

 

[graceandpeace]

So you think the Commandment to not make an image of anything up in Heaven has changed? Granted, I believe the Law has changed; But I do not believe this applies to the moral laws, though. Besides, in the New Testament, we are told to keep ourselves from idols.

Idolatry is a sin of the heart, not of the hands. Even so, I reject the idea that an image meant to represent Christ is an "idol."

Could such an image become an idol? Sure, I guess if someone decides to worship the picture itself, which virtually all Christians would agree is silly & of course not the purpose of an icon. The purpose of such imagery should be to direct the mind toward Christ for some use, such as an aid in prayer.

 

[seashale76]

This is something I put together a few years ago after reading a few books on icons.

The earliest iconographers in Byzantium weren't considered artists they were considered craftsmen. There are strict rules to iconography. God the Father is never shown, and the Holy Spirit is only represented by a dove, rays of power, or tongues of flame. People who defile them, make portraits of other people like Ghandi or Martin Luther King in an iconographic style, people who print them on t-shirts: it is seen pretty much as very sad and outrageous. Not everything that claims to be an icon is an icon. Books upon books have been written about icons. I suggest to anyone interested in the subject to go find some books (I especially rec Quinot and Martin).

Linette Martin in her book Sacred Doorways: A Beginner's Guide to Icons (page 212) states, "To the question,'Where does an icon belong?'; the obvious answer is, "In a church, to be an integral part of the Divine Liturgy, or in a Christian home as a devotional focus."

Symbolism is key. There is a lot of it to be found. From seemingly random trees, to personification, to color, to the way figures hold their hands, to the scale of figures, to profiles, animals, arrested movement, body language, buildings, clothing worn, drapery, rocks, furniture, haloes, handheld objects, inscriptions, landscape, simultaneous narration, etc. it all means something. There is an entire theology behind icons.

The earliest icons we know of are almost all at St. Catherine's Monastery in Mt. Sinai, Egypt (and many of them were exhibited at the Getty for a few years ago, accompanied by a few of the Monks). Go to their website and watch the video about the monastery and the icons. http://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/icons_sinai/

The following is an excerpt from an article that gives an extremely brief general overview of icons. I highlighted the last paragraph because it talks specifically about Christ in icons. (Seriously- read the entire text box.)

http://www.antiochian.org/icons-eastern-orthodoxy
So what is an icon? Webster defines an icon as an image (Webster, 1966). In the Orthodox Church an icon is a sacred image, a window into heaven. An image of another reality, of a person, time and place that is more real than here and now. More than art, icons have an important spiritual role. Michel Quenot says it well in his book, The Icon: Window on the Kingdom, an icon is "theology in imagery, the icon expresses through color what the Gospel proclaims in words".

For this reason the rules regarding the creation of an icon are rigorous. The iconographer must prepare himself for the task of painting an icon by following a strict discipline of fasting and prayer. He must quiet his spirit and submit himself to God. The icon he creates will not be signed. He will not expect accolades or applause when the icon is completed. The icon will be created to inspire and lead others into worship. Painting the icon is not a use of imagination. Instead, the icon will be painted using the prescribed regimen and style that has been passed down through the centuries. Everything from the facial expressions to the colors used is predetermined. The following is a prayer recited by an iconographer prior to starting to work:

O Divine Master of all that exists, enlighten and direct the soul, the heart and the mind of your servant: guide my hands so that I might portray worthily and perfectly Your Image, that of Your Holy Mother and of all the Saints, for the glory, the joy, and the beautification of Your Holy Church. ( Quenot, p.13)

The primary purpose of the icon is to aid in worship. Its design follows that purpose. Through lines and color the iconographer conveys the awesomeness of the invisible, divine reality (Evdokimov, 1990). The creation of an icon is defined by tradition. That is a 21 st century iconographer would not decide to change the shape of Christ's face. It is understood that a person who saw them in the flesh painted the first icon of an individual. St. Luke is accredited with painting the first icons of Christ and Mary the Blessed Virgin. Each subsequent iconographer will use the original icon as a guide. There is room for a small amount of stylistic change but tradition limits the options for that change ( Forest, 1997).

Icons are not created to force an emotional response. When portraying historical scenes the faces don't show emotions but instead portray virtues such as purity, patience in suffering, forgiveness, compassion and love. An example of this would be the portrayal of Christ on the cross. Neither is the icon a sentimental picture. Christ is always shown as God. Even the icons of Christ seated on His mother's lap show Him with an adult face, revealing that even though Christ lived as a child among us He was also God ( Forest,1997).

Icons depict silence. There are no actions displayed, no open mouths. The icon invites the Christian to enter into contemplation,prayer, and silence (Ware,1979). Space is not defined as three-dimensional and time is insignificant. The story told by the icon precludes time and space. An example would be the icon of the Nativity, which shows the cave where Christ was born in the background with those who came to adore in small vignettes. Lighting proceeds from the character portrayed in the icon. There are never shadows in icons. This shows us that the saint portrayed is 'glorified' having completed the race and entered into heaven (Quenot,1991).

Symbolism is used in icons and details are used minimally. For example, when showing John the Baptist baptizing in the river the grown man he baptizes is shown as an infant because the baptism is a rebirth. Colors are also symbolic. Blue reveals heaven and mystery. Green is youth, fertility and the earth's vegetation. Red, the color of blood, suggests life, vitality and beauty. White is purity, the divine world and innocence. Gold indicates sanctity, splendor, and the glory of God and life in the heavenly kingdom. Purple reveals wealth, power and authority.

First and foremost, icons are a constant reminder of the incarnation of Christ, that is to say, they remind us that God "sent His only begotten Son" (Bible, John 3:16) to rescue us from our sin and death. We cannot see God the Father or God the Holy Spirit, but, because Christ chose to take on human flesh, we can see Him. His face can be portrayed on wood with paint. We can also paint His Mother and other saints who have finished the race and gone on to heaven. The Orthodox believe that surrounding themselves with icons help them to acknowledge the constant presence of Christ and the saints in their lives.

I thought this was enlightening enough regarding the particular thread to add in this information about how Christ is portrayed in icons.

From Linette Martin's book, Sacred Doorways: A Beginner's Guide to Icons (pages 150-151) published by Paraclete Press, copyright 2002:

"Christ Pantocrator (pan-to-crah-tor) means Christ, the ruler of all.

"The domed roof of a Byzantine church represents the vault of heaven, and originally, mosaicists may have decorated it with the Ascension. By the tenth century, the figure in church domes was half-length, and the picture for a dome had changed from narrative to confrontational. It was discovered that a half-length figure fitted more easily into a circle than one of full length, and it allowed the face to be on a larger scale. He holds a closed book, which may be seen as the Gospels or as the Book of Judgment in Revelation 20:11,12

"The fingers of his right hand are bent in the position of a priest's hand of blessing and are pointing toward himself. The index finger of his other hand points powerfully across the picture, balancing the sideways glance of his eyes to his left. When we look carefully at the face of this Pantocrator, we see a difference between one side and the other. His right side, the side of blessing, is calm; his left side, the side of judgment, is fierce with an angry eyebrow. After nearly nine hundred years this awe-inspiring image still has the power to convert. Confronted with it for the first time some people react with shock: This is not a tame Jesus. The only thing that lets us off the hook is that those eyes do not look directly at us. The image is a reminder that the Last Judgment should be feared because it will be absolutely just, albeit tempered by mercy and total understanding.

"The Pantocrator is not intended to represent Christ as the Jesus of Galilee, but as the awe-inspiring God-Man, the King of the Universe and terrible Judge at the end of time."

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

If we go by the Shroud of Turin than we can imagine Jesus looked somewhat like this:

If there's authenticity there, then the image that the Greeks and Romans portrayed were not completely arbitrary, though they probably made his complexion a bit lighter so that gentiles could identify with him more.

And no, it's not idolatry or a violation of the Commandment. If we went by the commandment literally instead of by it's context then all forms of art with anything resembling anything would be idolatrous.

 

[Tigger45]

One of the Ten Commandments says we are not to make an image of anything up in Heaven. Jesus is at the right hand of God in Heaven. Granted, many Christians are not bowing down to these images, but many of them DO think the popular drawings of Jesus are a representation of Jesus Christ (Who is the One we worship). However, nobody truly knows what Jesus really looked like today. These drawings are only representations of artist's imaginations. It's not truth. It's a promotion of untruth. In other words, there are many Christians who worship and pray to Jesus visualizing in their mind that He looks like a white American or European when in reality he was actually "Semitic" (i.e. Semtic is a word taken from the word "Shem", one of Noah's sons). Semitic people are mid tone in complexion. For Jesus was a Hebrew (i.e. a Jew). He is not a white American / European. Now, there has been a few semitic renditions of Jesus, but again: This would not be an accurate image of Jesus and what he really looks like.

I think it is bad enough that people are making images of him, then they have to make things even worse by erasing His Jewish heritage by making him into a white American or European when he is actually Semitic type person in appearance. So every time someone posts an image of Jesus (Which is usually a white person like myself), I say, "That is not Jesus." We do not know what He actually looks like. So it is my admonishment to all those out there who do posts pictures of Jesus, to stop displaying images of Him as if this was Jesus. Yes, we can read a comic to our kids that might have a comic rendition of Jesus so they can learn the Bible, but it must be explained to them that this is not what Jesus really looks like. What say you?


...

Do you still have any photos of your loved ones that have passed on?

 

[Grafted In]

Here's about as accurate a picture of Jesus as we have. It's pierced with holes and has stripes from being grilled.

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zechariah 12:10.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isaiah 53.5

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you still have any photos of your loved ones that have passed on?

I know what my loved ones look like. Nobody knows what Jesus looks like. That is the point. People just conjure up images that only exist in the minds of artists. They think Jesus actualy looks like that. Many pray to Jesus thinking he looks like that. Many pray to a statue of Jesus that is also a false image. We are told by Christ to worship Him in spirit and in truth. For example: If I created an image of your father that was completely different than what he actually looks like, and I said this is your father.... you would be like.... no... that looks nothing like my father. But what if I said I am going to think of your father that way no matter what you think or what your father thinks? See where I am coming from?


....

 

[Tigger45]

I know what my loved ones look like. Nobody knows what Jesus looks like. That is the point. People just conjure up images that only exist in the minds of artists. This is wrong.

By your own words, your not to make images of things which are in heaven. It's irrelevant whether you know what they look like.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If we go by the Shroud of Turin than we can imagine Jesus looked somewhat like this:

If there's authenticity there, then the image that the Greeks and Romans portrayed were not completely arbitrary, though they probably made his complexion a bit lighter so that gentiles could identify with him more.

And no, it's not idolatry or a violation of the Commandment. If we went by the commandment literally instead of by it's context then all forms of art with anything resembling anything would be idolatrous.

Nowhere does the Bible say we are to make images of Jesus or to trust in certain images of him as being actually him. On the contrary, we are told to not create an image of anything in Heaven. I would rather err on the side of caution then be foot-loose and fancy free in the way I worship GOD. For it is better to be safe then sorry.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

By your own words, your not to make images of things which are in heaven. It's irrelevant whether you know what they look like.

Obviously the Israelites did not see anything in Heaven. But this Command was no doubt an order for them not to create idol or false images of any kind whether it was a bird in the sky or whether it was something that they experienced in a vision (That they might have thought was a Heavenly visit). The point is not to create an image of whatever we feel like of what we would consider to be something holy or worthy of our worship (i.e. God). For even the brass serpent was later worshiped wrongfully as an idol.


...

 

[Tigger45]

One of the Ten Commandments says we are not to make an image of 'anything' up in Heaven. Granted, many Christians are not bowing down to these images, but many of them DO think the popular drawings of Jesus are a representation of Jesus Christ (Who is the One we worship). However, nobody truly knows what Jesus really looked like today. These drawings are only representations of artist's imaginations. It's not truth. It's a promotion of untruth. In other words, there are many Christians who worship and pray to Jesus visualizing in their mind that He looks like a white American or European when in reality he was actually "Semitic" (i.e. Semtic is a word taken from the word "Shem", one of Noah's sons). Semitic people are mid tone in complexion. For Jesus was a Hebrew (i.e. a Jew). He is not a white American / European. Now, there has been a few semitic renditions of Jesus, but again: This would not be an accurate image of Jesus and what he really looks like.

I think it is bad enough that people are making images of him, then they have to make things even worse by erasing His Jewish heritage by making him into a white American or European when he is actually Semitic type person in appearance. So every time someone posts an image of Jesus (Which is usually a white person like myself), I say, "That is not Jesus." We do not know what He actually looks like. So it is my admonishment to all those out there who do posts pictures of Jesus, to stop displaying images of Him as if this was Jesus. Yes, we can read a comic to our kids that might have a comic rendition of Jesus so they can learn the Bible, but it must be explained to them that this is not what Jesus really looks like. What say you?


...

Here I even put your own words in bold print! By your own words you should destroy any photos you have of loved ones that have since gone to heaven.

 

[topcare]

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is something I put together a few years ago after reading a few books on icons.

The earliest iconographers in Byzantium weren't considered artists they were considered craftsmen. There are strict rules to iconography. God the Father is never shown, and the Holy Spirit is only represented by a dove, rays of power, or tongues of flame. People who defile them, make portraits of other people like Ghandi or Martin Luther King in an iconographic style, people who print them on t-shirts: it is seen pretty much as very sad and outrageous. Not everything that claims to be an icon is an icon. Books upon books have been written about icons. I suggest to anyone interested in the subject to go find some books (I especially rec Quinot and Martin).

Linette Martin in her book Sacred Doorways: A Beginner's Guide to Icons (page 212) states, "To the question,'Where does an icon belong?'; the obvious answer is, "In a church, to be an integral part of the Divine Liturgy, or in a Christian home as a devotional focus."

Symbolism is key. There is a lot of it to be found. From seemingly random trees, to personification, to color, to the way figures hold their hands, to the scale of figures, to profiles, animals, arrested movement, body language, buildings, clothing worn, drapery, rocks, furniture, haloes, handheld objects, inscriptions, landscape, simultaneous narration, etc. it all means something. There is an entire theology behind icons.

The earliest icons we know of are almost all at St. Catherine's Monastery in Mt. Sinai, Egypt (and many of them were exhibited at the Getty for a few years ago, accompanied by a few of the Monks). Go to their website and watch the video about the monastery and the icons. http://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/icons_sinai/

The following is an excerpt from an article that gives an extremely brief general overview of icons. I highlighted the last paragraph because it talks specifically about Christ in icons. (Seriously- read the entire text box.)


I thought this was enlightening enough regarding the particular thread to add in this information about how Christ is portrayed in icons.

From Linette Martin's book, Sacred Doorways: A Beginner's Guide to Icons (pages 150-151) published by Paraclete Press, copyright 2002:

"Christ Pantocrator (pan-to-crah-tor) means Christ, the ruler of all.

"The domed roof of a Byzantine church represents the vault of heaven, and originally, mosaicists may have decorated it with the Ascension. By the tenth century, the figure in church domes was half-length, and the picture for a dome had changed from narrative to confrontational. It was discovered that a half-length figure fitted more easily into a circle than one of full length, and it allowed the face to be on a larger scale. He holds a closed book, which may be seen as the Gospels or as the Book of Judgment in Revelation 20:11,12

"The fingers of his right hand are bent in the position of a priest's hand of blessing and are pointing toward himself. The index finger of his other hand points powerfully across the picture, balancing the sideways glance of his eyes to his left. When we look carefully at the face of this Pantocrator, we see a difference between one side and the other. His right side, the side of blessing, is calm; his left side, the side of judgment, is fierce with an angry eyebrow. After nearly nine hundred years this awe-inspiring image still has the power to convert. Confronted with it for the first time some people react with shock: This is not a tame Jesus. The only thing that lets us off the hook is that those eyes do not look directly at us. The image is a reminder that the Last Judgment should be feared because it will be absolutely just, albeit tempered by mercy and total understanding.

"The Pantocrator is not intended to represent Christ as the Jesus of Galilee, but as the awe-inspiring God-Man, the King of the Universe and terrible Judge at the end of time."

Actually I see pagan elements in this photo and his hand gesture is of the new age, as well.

Here is another photo of Jesus that is similar.

Notice the circle like sun behind the head that is common in many of these types of images of Jesus.

Let's look at some pagan art.

See the sun like circle behind their heads?

Also, notice the hand gesture of the picture of Jesus I had shown. Here is a similar hand gesture in this new age Buddah statue.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Here I even put your own words in bold print! By your own words you should destroy any photos you have of loved ones that have since gone to heaven.

No, my loved ones are not God or holy like God in any way. The Commandment was geared towards making images that you regard as something you would worship. I do not worship my family and regard them as holy like God. That is what the Commandment is saying. If you make an image of something that is turned into an idol, it is so that you would bow down to it and or regard it as something holy and sacred like God.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Nowhere does the Bible say we are to make images of Jesus or to trust in certain images of him as being actually him. On the contrary, we are told to not create an image of anything in Heaven. I would rather err on the side of caution then be foot-loose and fancy free in the way I worship GOD. For it is better to be safe then sorry.


...

I'd rather not believe in a power that is going to scourge me for honoring them in a painting. It isn't idolatry anymore than having a picture of your father on a wall.