He who isn't a member of the Catholic Church, unless not knowing it, is against it

[Soyeong]

the Church is the Body of Christ

as we can see from Acts and the other Epistles, the Church is a visible institution
the Church held a council in Jerusalem
the Apostles wrote Epistles to the Church in different cities, I mean, they had to send them to some group, they were not just read openly in the town square
it was sent to the Church within that city

you are correct about Jesus knows who is with Him and who is not

it is possible that some people within heretical sects may be saved
but the assurance of salvation is within the Church

"Church" just means "assembly" and God's assembly includes everyone who has the faith of our father Abraham, which did not originate with Roman Catholics and is not exclusive to them.

 

[Martinius]

Martinius as we know , pride (ORGUIEL ) comes before a FALL, and there is much orguiel ,among these people .

True, too much pride and inordinate fear, to the point of morphing into paranoia and hatred. It constantly puzzles me how some members of our faith, which was founded in love, acceptance and forgiveness, can act just look those who Jesus roundly and severely condemned in the Gospels (see Matthew 15 and Matthew 23) for not loving, accepting and forgiving, but who instead are "teaching human precepts as doctrines", and think that they somehow control the gates to the Kingdom. I prefer to trust in the love and mercy of God, over and above the dictates of mere humans.

 

[Rhamiel]

"Church" just means "assembly" and God's assembly includes everyone who has the faith of our father Abraham, which did not originate with Roman Catholics and is not exclusive to them.

have you read the New Testament?
when the Church was having problems with Judaizes, they called a council together in Jerusalem
the Church acted as one body
the Church still acts as one body
this idea that all denominations are part of "the church" is a lie born of the father of lies

the Only, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church actually has unity and authority, but those trapped in denominations see this as such an alien idea when it is very biblical

 

[Soyeong]

have you read the New Testament?
when the Church was having problems with Judaizes, they called a council together in Jerusalem
the Church acted as one body
the Church still acts as one body
this idea that all denominations are part of "the church" is a lie born of the father of lies

the Only, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church actually has unity and authority, but those trapped in denominations see this as such an alien idea when it is very biblical

Indeed, I've read the New Testament, have you? God's assembly was not something new, but rather it was something renewed and rebuilt. Indeed, the Jerusalem Council acted as one body, but Roman Catholics have misused their authority, do not represent the Jerusalem Council, and they do not have exclusive claim to the faith of our father Abraham. It not that unity is bad, but that truth does not serve unity. And why are you acting like Catholics don't have many denominations?

 

[sahjimira]

I don't even know what to say. This is so far fetched it's beyond words

 

[Jared R]

It's good to know we have such zealous people protecting the gates of heaven. I have this vision of Jesus blessing, forgiving, and finding great faith in all kinds of people (just as he did in the Gospels) and sending them up the road toward paradise, only to have them intercepted and denied entrance by some self-appointed "guardians of the galaxy" only because they didn't have the right color ticket. I feel quite sorry for those "protectors" when Jesus finds out what they have been doing to the very people he thought he had saved.

I just realized why every few months I feel the need to take a hiatus from this place. It is so I can purge my spirit, soul and intellect of stuff like this.

Note: I am Catholic, so please don't accuse me of attacking the Church I love and to which I have devoted much time, talent (very little to share) and treasure (even less).

"Stuff like this" = the voice of Peter?

In an age of false ecumenism, it's true compassion and mercy to warn people that their non-Catholic sects do not offer the salvation of Jesus Christ. His blood flows from His body.

We should be tactful about it obviously, and that's not the first thing I'd say after my name when meeting a Protestant. But the original post was written in a Catholic subforum, presumably addressed to other Catholics, to correct an error that unfortunately most modern Catholics hold.

 

[Korah]

I readily admit that Roman Catholic doctrine has me destined to spend Hell in eternal torment.
However, not since Fr. Feeney was ex-communicated (and its re-emergence under SSPX or at least the Pius V Society and the Sede Vacantists) have any legitimate Roman Catholic teachers held that everyone not baptized Roman Catholic goes to Hell.
Which are you, society of St. Peter, SSPX, Pius V, or Sede Vacantist?
EDITED TO ADD:
OK, that's too harsh. You do accept the Novus Ordo.
So where did you just earn your Bachelor's in Theology? I would assume you would go on to seminary where hopefully they would assume your student loan debt. Are you having a problem finding a seminary that will accept you? If so, is their reticence due to your unwillingness to comply with current hierarchical innovations?
I'm trying to help you. You seem in your posts here to have a good spirit and lots of friends. Perhaps we can help you see your way clear to find the path to the Holy Orders or the religious life you apparently desire.

 

[Jared R]

I readily admit that Roman Catholic doctrine has me destined to spend Hell in eternal torment.
However, not since Fr. Feeney (and its re-emergence under SSPX or at least the Pius V Society and the Sede Vacantists) have any legitimate Roman Catholic teachers held that everyone not baptized Roman Catholic goes to Hell.
Which are you, society of St. Peter, SSPX, Pius V, or Sede Vacantist?

The SSPX and others don't teach that "everyone not baptized Roman Catholic goes to Hell." The traditional doctrine is that, "everyone who wishes to be saved must be baptized and remain a living member in the Catholic Church." God will save whom He wills, and may supply grace where the eye sees none, but it would be the height of presumption to tell someone they can be saved by rejecting the Body of Christ, which is one with Jesus Christ its Head, the only source of life for the world. I would tell a Protestant, "I don't know if you will be saved or damned, I can only tell you in love that there is no salvation apart from the one flock visibly united under Christ."

Tradition believes in the mercy of God, but it doesn't make the mistake that false ecumenism does in going too far.

 

[Goatee]

For me, a Catholic, i believe that as long as you yourself believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of the True Living God then that is all that matters. Belief in Jesus. Belief in his death and Resurrection. Belief in his Word.

As long as you believe i think it doesn't matter what denomination you belong to. God loves us all. God wants us all to turn to him and his Beloved Son.

God bless you all in Christ

 

[Jared R]

For me, a Catholic, i believe that as long as you yourself believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of the True Living God then that is all that matters. Belief in Jesus. Belief in his death and Resurrection. Belief in his Word.

As long as you believe i think it doesn't matter what denomination you belong to. God loves us all. God wants us all to turn to him and his Beloved Son.

God bless you all in Christ

Hello antletems,

What do we make of Jesus' warning that those who don't eat His flesh and drink His blood will not have eternal life?

 

[Goatee]

Hello antletems,

What do we make of Jesus' warning that those who don't eat His flesh and drink His blood will not have eternal life?

Does it actually mean to eat his flesh and blood or does it actually meant to digest his life, his words, his ministry?

What about this:

John 3:16New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.

John 5:24New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
24 Very truly, I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come under judgment, but has passed from death to life.

The Catholic Church, as it stands today is not how it was when Jesus walked the earth.

I do believe in the Catholic Church but, we are all members of the church of Jesus. As long as we believe in Jesus and the Father.

We have Tradition in the Catholic church which again i think is very important but, God loves all those that believe in Him and His Son.

There may be many people who cannot get to a place to receive Holy Communion. Does that mean then that God will abandon them? NO! God loves us all.

 

[Jared R]

Does it actually mean to eat his flesh and blood or does it actually meant to digest his life, his words, his ministry?

It means both, but the primary meaning is the Eucharist. You believe Jesus is talking about Himself in the Eucharist in John 6, don't you? I don't see how we can reconcile Our Lord's words with the idea that belief is the only thing that matters.

 

[Goatee]

It means both, but the primary meaning is the Eucharist. You believe Jesus is talking about Himself in the Eucharist in John 6, don't you? I don't see how we can reconcile Our Lord's words with the idea that belief is the only thing that matters.

What do the other quotes listed above mean then? They don't say anything about Body and Blood for Eternal life!

 

[Rhamiel]

However, not since Fr. Feeney was ex-communicated (and its re-emergence under SSPX or at least the Pius V Society and the Sede Vacantists) have any legitimate Roman Catholic teachers held that everyone not baptized Roman Catholic goes to Hell.

Feeneyism denies Baptism of Desire and the mitigating factor of Invincible Ignorance

has any Catholic in this thread denied those parts of Catholic doctrine.

For me, a Catholic, i believe that as long as you yourself believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of the True Living God then that is all that matters.

none of the ancient creeds have said "yeah, just believe in Jesus and everything else is ok"
what about Mormons, they "believe in Jesus"?
and Muslims, they "believe in Jesus"
they believe He was only a prophet, but that is still a belief
since you seem to put false beliefs as being equal to true beliefs

As long as you believe i think it doesn't matter what denomination you belong to.

that's called "religious indifference"
that is a heresy
you might be Catholic, but you are teaching heresies

Does it actually mean to eat his flesh and blood or does it actually meant to digest his life, his words, his ministry?

both

The Catholic Church, as it stands today is not how it was when Jesus walked the earth.

yes
and I do not look the same as when I was born 30 years ago
In the Old Testament, the People of Israel went through different evolutions as well
being a family
to being tribes
to being a nation under judges
to being under a king

 

[Goatee]

Feeneyism denies Baptism of Desire and the mitigating factor of Invincible Ignorance

has any Catholic in this thread denied those parts of Catholic doctrine.


none of the ancient creeds have said "yeah, just believe in Jesus and everything else is ok"
what about Mormons, they "believe in Jesus"?
and Muslims, they "believe in Jesus"
they believe He was only a prophet, but that is still a belief
since you seem to put false beliefs as being equal to true beliefs


that's called "religious indifference"
that is a heresy
you might be Catholic, but you are teaching heresies

both


yes
and I do not look the same as when I was born 30 years ago
In the Old Testament, the People of Israel went through different evolutions as well
being a family
to being tribes
to being a nation under judges
to being under a king

You know, I am sure that God is looking down at this world, his hand on his chin, rubbing his beard thinking what is everyone one about!!"Just love me!!! Love my son Jesus!! Abide by his Words!! Love each other!!"

We all love Jesus and abide by what he teaches. Who cares what denomination you are from? We are one big family in Christ! Jesus came to save sinners. Thats just not Catholic sinners!! Its ALL SINNERS!

'Religion' is not the answer. FAITH is the answer. LOVE is the answer. JESUS is the answer!!

Too much fighting and arguing and bickering about who said this and who said that and follow this or follow that!!!

LOVE JESUS!!! LOVE EACH OTHER!!

 

[Rhamiel]

We all love Jesus and abide by what he teaches. Who cares what denomination you are from?

well you are saying two contradictory things

if we abide what Jesus teaches, we will follow His Church

Luke 10:16
"Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me."

also, when Saul is persecuting the Church, Jesus says "Saul, why do you persecute me?"
so in a very real way, when people reject the Church, they reject Jesus

I am not sure if anyone has ever told you this before
but we are not part of a denomination
we are part of the only Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ and is shepherded by His vicar the Roman Pontiff

 

[Korah]

Questions for you, Rhamiel,
and for all other Catholics to see if they implicitly agree with you.
1. When Kim Davis is persecuted for her Christian stand in Kentucky, is the reason you posted nothing on CF about it because she is not in the Church? For you, "Yes," right.
2. For the rest of you on OBOB you similar inaction means you agree with Rhamiel, right? I can put you down for "Yes" as well?

 

[Rhamiel]

I have talked about Kim Davis, you can find threads about her in the OBOB political subforum

I think it is more of a local issue

I think that instead of being thrown in jail, they should have a recall election, see if the people still want her to represent them
the whole situation is messy

also, I am in no place to judge the culpability of individuals, so I can not say if Kim Davis is "outside the Church"

 

[Goatee]

Everyone who believes in Jesus and carries out his words are all part of 'HIS' Church! The 'Church' of Jesus is us! It is the people. It is not made of stone. It is not a building. WE are the church of Jesus. Everyone who reads his words, accepts him as the True Son of the living God.

I believe that, protestant, Anglican, Lutheran etc etc etc are all our Brothers and Sisters in Christ.

Christ started this church, the universal church! I am not on about a particular denomination i am on about the body of Christ! The whole of the Christian etc world.

Too many people banging on about you must be a Catholic or you are doomed!! Rubbish!!!!! Jesus wants everyone to go to him and his father. I am sure that Jesus hates all this bickering about different denominations etc.

One Church, for me, is the whole of mankind, joined together by the deep love of Jesus. Believing 'IN' Jesus. His life, his death and his resurrection. Even though i am a Catholic, i do feel as though the church lost its way many hundreds of years ago!

The 'Church' is the 'people'. The 'People' are the body of 'Christ'. One 'Big' family living in the love of Christ.

 

[LaSorcia]

1- Doesn't Vatican II acknowledge that non-Catholic Christians can be 'real' Christians?

2-I am so sad and tired of seeing so many Christians telling others who doesn't belong. Jesus did not do that! He included people.
Let's see who didn't belong in Jesus' day:
women
prostitutes
sinners
tax collectors
Samaritans
Gentiles

Let's see who Jesus included:
women
prostitutes
sinners
tax collectors
Samaritans
Gentiles

Why don't we all try to see who 'qualifies' for the Gospel rather than who doesn't?