Kentucky County Clerk Kim Davis Jailed for Not Issuing Gay Marriage Licenses

[Catherineanne]

Christians, discuss your opinion of the situation here.

Keep in mind, the forum rules say that this forum believes that homosexuality is immoral, so that is *not* up for discussion.

Is Kim Davis engaging in passive resistance, because her right to religious freedom is being violated? Because it is a lie to say that a gay relationship constitutes "a marriage," would it be a sin for her to issue gay marriage licenses, which is "approving of sin?"

Or, is Kim Davis rightfully in jail, because she did not do her job, and we cannot let government employees pick and choose which orders to follow?

I have heard Christians who oppose gay marriage say both of these things today.

What would happen if we let everyone ignore orders because of religious beliefs? Conversely, what would happen if we forced everyone to obey the government under all circumstances?

Article for your information:
I have heard Christians who oppose gay marriage say both of these things today.

Aiui, she declined to issue licences to anyone.

She was in contempt of court and therefore has to face the consequences. I have no sympathy for her at all. Public servants have no authority to decide what is law and what is not. If their conscience is troubled they should simply resign.

 

[Catherineanne]

"Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." [Matthew 5:10]

Indeed so. But this particular lady is not being persecuted; rather more the other way round, imo.

 

[Catherineanne]

So now its OK to impeach someone for following their religious conscience?

Yes. Always has been.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Have you noticed that it was before she was saved? Paul was a murderer, but we don't hold that against him, now, do we?

That's what they all claim, when it's convenient.

 

[Catherineanne]

Because the law violated her deeply held religious beliefs. You'll get no sympathy from me in this matter, I'm a Covenanter.

At the point where any law violated my beliefs in my work I would resign.

Breaking the law is not the answer to having a troubled conscience.

 

[Pammalamma]

At the point where any law violated my beliefs in my work I would resign.

Breaking the law is not the answer to having a troubled conscience.

I agree that resigning is a good option, because I actually did quit when I was in a government job and was basically asked to steal, but I also can see that a case could be made that if all Christians leave government employment because it is corrupt, then who is left within the system to preserve it? Also, I have a lot of trouble believing that it's always right for government employees to "do their jobs" because of Adolf Eichmann.

 

[Catherineanne]

So, if someone stands up for what they believe in, even when the government tells them to do something they believe is very wrong, you see that as a *lack* of integrity? Personally, I think it shows a lot more integrity to stick to your morals no matter what the government and other people say. That is what Jesus did.

If you ask someone, "What do you do?" and they say, "Whatever my boss tells me to," you think, "Wow! This person has an awful lot of integrity!" Right? Or, does it show more integrity to disobey a bad rule? Understand, she has different beliefs than you do about what is right and wrong.

"In ethics, integrity is regarded by many people as the honesty and truthfulness or accuracy of one's actions. Integrity can stand in opposition to hypocrisy, in that judging with the standards of integrity involves regarding internal consistency as a virtue, and suggests that parties holding within themselves apparently conflicting values should account for the discrepancy or alter their beliefs."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrity

Christians are not above the law.

This principle was established in English law in 1393.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Praemunire

 

[Pammalamma]

Christians are not above the law.

This principle was established in English law in 1393.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Praemunire

So, for example, the Fugitive Slave Law, how should a Christian have behaved there?

 

[Catherineanne]

I agree that resigning is a good option, because I actually did quit when I was in a government job and was basically asked to steal, but I also can see that a case could be made that if all Christians leave government employment because it is corrupt, then who is left within the system to preserve it? Also, I have a lot of trouble believing that it's always right for government employees to "do their jobs" because of Adolf Eichmann.

It is not your problem or mine to worry about what happens when we resign; if our conscience is troubled, then it is right to do so. I commend your decision to do the right thing, when you were faced with this problem.

It is not right for any Christian to break an oath given when we take on any given role; that is a very serious matter indeed. If this woman swore to do her job as directed by the law, then she must do it or resign; there are no other options.

 

[Catherineanne]

So, for example, the Fugitive Slave Law, how should a Christian have behaved there?

The principle stands. Christians are not above the law. We can choose to break it, but if we do then we accept the consequences if we are caught. Probably best not get caught.

 

[TerranceL]

"Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." [Matthew 5:10]

That's what Westboro Baptist Church thinks too.

 

[Pammalamma]

It is not your problem or mine to worry about what happens when we resign; if our conscience is troubled, then it is right to do so. I commend your decision to do the right thing, when you were faced with this problem.

It is not right for any Christian to break an oath given when we take on any given role; that is a very serious matter indeed. If this woman swore to do her job as directed by the law, then she must do it or resign; there are no other options.

Okay, but some in the military have said that they took an oath to uphold the Constitution, and then the government has asked them to violate the Constitution, so what to do there?

 

[TerranceL]

People in elected offices can be impeached.

Whose talking about elected office?

 

[Pammalamma]

That's what Westboro Baptist Church thinks too.

That's a weak argument. Anyone can quote Jesus.

 

[Catherineanne]

Okay, but some in the military have said that they took an oath to uphold the Constitution, and then the government has asked them to violate the Constitution, so what to do there?

Keep their oath.

What the Government does it its own concern. Private conscience is to do with individual choice.

 

[Pammalamma]

The principle stands. Christians are not above the law. We can choose to break it, but if we do then we accept the consequences if we are caught. Probably best not get caught.

So, you think it right to treat human beings as property? Aren't God's laws higher and better than man's laws?

 

[TerranceL]

That's a weak argument. Anyone can quote Jesus.

And those who tend to ignore what he actually said tend to be the ones who do it the most.

 

[Pammalamma]

Keep their oath.

The oath says to defend the Constitution and to obey the President, so what part of the oath do you think they should obey?

 

[TerranceL]

Because the law violated her deeply held religious beliefs. You'll get no sympathy from me in this matter, I'm a Covenanter.

The law did no such thing, she wasn't forced to marry a woman she was asked to perform her job.

 

[Catherineanne]

The oath says to defend the Constitution and to obey the President, so what part of the oath do you think they should obey?

Whatever they swore to do they must do.

It is not their job to stand in judgment of the Government of the US, or its President. If the Government says it is constitutional to eat only doughnuts every Thursday they should head to the bakery first thing every Thursday morning.

Armies who take it into their heads to judge the Government ultimately lead to Dictatorships. If they want unconstitutional then that is the way to go.