Kentucky County Clerk Kim Davis Jailed for Not Issuing Gay Marriage Licenses

[durangodawood]

So, if someone stands up for what they believe in, even when the government tells them to do something they believe is very wrong, you see that as a *lack* of integrity? Personally, I think it shows a lot more integrity to stick to your morals no matter what the government and other people say. That is what Jesus did.

Jesus did not try to cling to a position in the government of the time. Perhaps that was wise.

 

[Red Fox]

As I said in another thread on this topic, we do not live in a Christian theocracy and Christianity does not rule this land or its government. Therefore, non-Christians living in this country don't have to adhere to the moral codes or written laws of Christianity. The fact is, every single person living in this country, regardless of religious preference, is entitled to equal rights and these rights should not be infringed upon by any religious zealots, who obviously think they are morally superior to the laws of this country. And no one singular religion in our secular country, which is governed by a secular government, should be allowed to be dominate over all other religions and people or given exclusive special rights and special privileges that other religious people and secular people living in this country would be denied. And lastly, Christians are more than able to practice their religion in this country as long as they don't infringe on the rights of other people, which includes people they don't like or whose lifestyle they don't approve of.

 

[Red Fox]

Thats not her situation.

She can resign and free herself from all obligation to enable gay marriages.

And yet, here she remains basking in the public spotlight as a persecuted martyr for her faith.

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

And yet, here she remains basking in the public spotlight as a persecuted martyr for her faith.

She's not a martyr. She's still alive.

 

[Red Fox]

She's not a martyr. She's still alive.

Point taken.

She is still making herself out to be a persecuted Christian because she has chosen to break the law and violate the oath that she took as an elected official.

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

She is still making herself out to be some poor, persecuted Christian because she has chosen to break the law and violate the oath that she took as an elected official.

Because the law violated her deeply held religious beliefs. You'll get no sympathy from me in this matter, I'm a Covenanter.

 

[SoulMiasma]

First, whatever it is you believe on gay marriage, I still find it hard to not admire her. She was willing to go to jail for believing in something. I know there's articles ad infinitum out there on the web (I swear, people just lack any sense of originality these days and they all say the same old thing) about how she's not a martyr, or how she's going to cash in. She knows most people in this country hate her, and she's still willing to stand for her beliefs. It's refreshing, when this world is just full of fake plastic shells who cowtow a line trying to please people, watching every single word they say lest they offend someone. It's refreshing that there's still people who are willing to be hated to believe in something, rather than embrace the nihilistic philosophy of fitting in with everyone else.

I know there's a lot to be said about the hypocrisy of supporting divorce/remarriage and being against gay marriage. I get it. I figured something would happen to her for refusing, but I was shocked that they'd resort to jail time. I could understand if they fired her, but the fact that they resorted to prison is downright freaky. It just goes to show how far people are willing to go these days to push an agenda.

 

[Red Fox]

Because the law violated her deeply held religious beliefs.

If the duties required in her job as an elected official afflict her conscience so much, then she should resign from her position.

 

[Red Fox]

I could understand if they fired her, but the fact that they resorted to prison is downright freaky.

She is an elected official, therefore she cannot be fired, but she can be impeached.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

So, if someone stands up for what they believe in, even when the government tells them to do something they believe is very wrong, you see that as a *lack* of integrity? Personally, I think it shows a lot more integrity to stick to your morals no matter what the government and other people say. That is what Jesus did.

If she wants to stand up for what she believe in, then she needs to accept that it is her responsibility to either separate her beliefs from her work (like many, many people have to do in many different professions already, like police, doctors, lawyers, teachers...) or resign from the position.

She can't possibly think she can single handedly strong arm the Supreme Court of the United States into allowing her to deny gays their lawful marriage licenses, can she? Where did she think this was going to go? I mean... She has to be aware of how wrong that is, being that she works at a courthouse. I would assume...

If you ask someone, "What do you do?" and they say, "Whatever my boss tells me to," you think, "Wow! This person has an awful lot of integrity!" Right? Or, does it show more integrity to disobey a bad rule? Understand, she has different beliefs than you do about what is right and wrong.

This is interesting... There's a couple rules I can think of that came from the bible that aren't all that great. I hear that breaking some of those rules carries some pretty hefty fines.

 

[Pammalamma]

For sure.
If Travis Country had issued inter racial marriage certificates before it was legal, I'd applaud that, law be dammed.

So we agree, it's not about "law." I think we should be honest. If you think she's wrong, fine, but I don't like dishonest posturing about "the law" when most people think it's okay to disobey unjust laws.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I figured something would happen to her for refusing, but I was shocked that they'd resort to jail time.

You were shocked that you could go to jail for ignoring a court order? Do you realize that we have the highest percentage of incarcerated citizens to population, of any country on earth? That's a fact. The "land of the free" ...ain't so free.

I could understand if they fired her, but the fact that they resorted to prison is downright freaky. It just goes to show how far people are willing to go these days to push an agenda.

What is it with people not taking a federal judge seriously now? He's not joking when he says you will go to jail if you don't stop what you're doing. That's how it works. That's what judges do.

It's not an agenda. She didn't go to jail for holding to her position on gay marriage. It's because she's refusing to issue licenses to anyone. Since she can't be fired because she's an elected official, she is being ordered by a judge to do her job or face a penalty. She chose to face the penalty. If anything, she has an agenda.

 

[Pammalamma]

I have to assume you're talking about the President... I didn't know Obama was a.) and illegal immigrant or b.) an immigration officer.

No, it's the immigration authorities. They have not been enforcing border security or deportation laws, but the people who I know who are in favor of gay marriage have said nothing about those laws going unenforced. That's why I don't believe they are offended by Kim Davis breaking the law.

 

[Pammalamma]

If she wants to stand up for what she believe in, then she needs to accept that it is her responsibility to either separate her beliefs from her work (like many, many people have to do in many different professions already, like police, doctors, lawyers, teachers...) or resign from the position.

She can't possibly think she can single handedly strong arm the Supreme Court of the United States into allowing her to deny gays their lawful marriage licenses, can she? Where did she think this was going to go? I mean... She has to be aware of how wrong that is, being that she works at a courthouse. I would assume...

This is interesting... There's a couple rules I can think of that came from the bible that aren't all that great. I hear that breaking some of those rules carries some pretty hefty fines.

So, you think the government should be obeyed the way we obey God?

 

[Pammalamma]

As I said in another thread on this topic, we do not live in a Christian theocracy and Christianity does not rule this land or its government. Therefore, non-Christians living in this country don't have to adhere to the moral codes or written laws of Christianity. The fact is, every single person living in this country, regardless of religious preference, is entitled to equal rights and these rights should not be infringed upon by any religious zealots, who obviously think they are morally superior to the laws of this country. And no one singular religion in our secular country, which is governed by a secular government, should be allowed to be dominate over all other religions and people or given exclusive special rights and special privileges that other religious people and secular people living in this country would be denied. And lastly, Christians are more than able to practice their religion in this country as long as they don't infringe on the rights of other people, which includes people they don't like or whose lifestyle they don't approve of.

A very sanctimonious screed. If someone believes that taking an action will send them to Hell, it's a violation of their religious freedom for the government to coerce them to do it. That's not making people follow your religion. It is following your own religion, because to approve of sin is one of the worst sins a Christian can commit (Romans 1). The government makes accommodations for conscientious objectors in the military, so they can make accommodations for conscientious objectors in the county clerk's office. It's really not that hard to figure out. There are also other county clerks.

Have you noticed nobody seems to talk about tolerance anymore? I think it's because of situations like this. To force someone to violate their beliefs is religious intolerance, just like banning the hijab in France and banning circumcision in Germany.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

So, you think the government should be obeyed the way we obey God?

No I don't. Just that when a judge gives you an order, he means it. The last part was just an interesting observation.

 

[Strathos]

Are we forgetting that she's been married 4 times and cheated on several of her husbands? Jesus explicitly condemned divorce and adultery, He never said anything directly about homosexuality or gay marriage. It seems to me that she doesn't care much about Christian principles or the sanctity of marriage, but is rather just motivated by homophobia.

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

Are we forgetting that she's been married 4 times and cheated on several of her husbands? Jesus explicitly condemned divorce and adultery, He never said anything directly about homosexuality or gay marriage. It seems to me that she doesn't care much about Christian principles or the sanctity of marriage, but is rather just motivated by homophobia.

Have you noticed that it was before she was saved? Paul was a murderer, but we don't hold that against him, now, do we?

 

[Pammalamma]

No I don't. Just that when a judge gives you an order, he means it. The last part was just an interesting observation.

Oh. I ask because I truly believe that if we take away the ability of government employees to act according to conscience, we are basically turning the government into a moral authority equal to a god.

 

[Pammalamma]

Have you noticed that it was before she was saved? Paul was a murderer, but we don't hold that against him, now, do we?

Excellent point, my friend. I have noticed that people say they "cannot disapprove of abortion, because they participated in one, so to disapprove now would be hypocrisy." But, they forget about repentance. The Lord can heal us of our sins. We are not "once a ____, always a _____." Jesus hung around with "tax collectors and sinners" in the eyes of others, but those followers had put those ways behind them.