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Christian Nudists

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When people want to live in a certain lifestyle, they will twist the scripture all they want. In the case of Noah, it is clear...the son saw his father naked and told his brothers. When his brothers walked in, they turned their faces away not to see the nakedness of their father. How much more direct do you want the Bible to be? There are too many accounts where being nude is shame in the Bible.

I think the Bible is a more reliable source than Wiki

If only the Bible were as clear as you claim. Some Greek versions state that the issue wasn't that Ham saw his father naked, but that the real offense was that he engaged in homosexual sex with his father when he was drunk.

BTW, exactly when did I claim that Wikipedia was more reliable than the Bible? It helps explain the Bible--I never clamed that it was more reliable.

Finally, I don't appreciate the implication that I'm twisting Scripture. You might not agree with my views, but don't make false accusations.
 
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When people want to live in a certain lifestyle, they will twist the scripture all they want. In the case of Noah, it is clear...the son saw his father naked and told his brothers. When his brothers walked in, they turned their faces away not to see the nakedness of their father. How much more direct do you want the Bible to be? There are too many accounts where being nude is shame in the Bible.

I think the Bible is a more reliable source than Wiki
I wholeheartedly agree. The Bible needs little in defense than the truth of the words contained.
 
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If only the Bible were as clear as you claim. Some Greek versions state that the issue wasn't that Ham saw his father naked, but that the real offense was that he engaged in homosexual sex with his father when he was drunk.
You must read some twisted translations my friend.
Finally, I don't appreciate the implication that I'm twisting Scripture. You might not agree with my views, but don't make false accusations.
Honestly, I have (in my opinion) seen you do this multiple times. You certainly have a 'secular' mindset in your views; concerning ones I must say.
 
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HondaMan

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If only the Bible were as clear as you claim. Some Greek versions state that the issue wasn't that Ham saw his father naked, but that the real offense was that he engaged in homosexual sex with his father when he was drunk.

BTW, exactly when did I claim that Wikipedia was more reliable than the Bible? It helps explain the Bible--I never clamed that it was more reliable.

Finally, I don't appreciate the implication that I'm twisting Scripture. You might not agree with my views, but don't make false accusations.

Sorry amigo, but sinners could use that excuse to sin in the ways they desire.

I appreciate your friendly debate. I didn't mean you stated that wiki is reliable, but meant that I see the Bible before wiki.
 
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Darkhorse

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Why did Noah curse his son?

The key theme in this passage seems to be respect.

Respect and dignity were very important in Old Testament times, especially to the patriarchs of families.

God's Law, given later through Moses, assigned a penalty of death to any child who struck their parent, and of course, he also got the Fifth Commandment to honor ones parents.

Ham may have dishonored his father by describing Noah's condition to his brothers in a disrespectful way.
The other two brothers may have covered Noah without looking at him as a gesture of respect.

Think of what we often do in modern society: if someone stumbles or falls, we often look away (rather than stand there staring at them) as a gesture of respect, to minimize their embarrassment.

Additionally, verse 24 says "When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him..." , which strongly suggests that Ham committed an intentional dishonorable act against Noah, rather than just innocently wandering into his tent and seeing him nude.

While this passage doesn't explicitly mention respect, or the lack of it, we should remember that the early part of Genesis was preserved and transmitted by oral tradition. It wasn't written down until the time of Moses.

Of course, this doesn't mean the passage is inaccurate, but cultural nuances are hard enough to capture in writing, much less in oral tradition.

If instead, the passage focuses only on nudity, it seems unreasonably harsh for Ham and his offspring to be cursed for accidentally viewing Noah's nude body, with no improper intent. Such accidental encounters happen today in every family, and I'm sure they were at least as common then.
 
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Dave-W

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If only the Bible were as clear as you claim. Some Greek versions state that the issue wasn't that Ham saw his father naked.....,
Except that was written in HEBREW, not Greek. Take only Hebrew sources for anything OT.
 
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toramei

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Matthew 6 verses starting with 28 " And why worry about your clothes? Look at the field of lilies! 29 Yet King Solomon in all his glory was not clothed as beautifully as they. 30 And if GOD cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you, O men of little faith? 31,32 " So don't worry at all about having enough food and clothing.Why be like the heathen? For they take pride in all these things and are deeply concerned about them...
Sure GOD knows that when the weather is cold he will provide coverings for us.As when in scripture " one has taken a cloak for payment we must give it back for the person to have protection from the cold at night.
 
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Cactus Jack

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I find it to be immodest.
Then don’t do it...? Your life, your choice. My life, my choice. Funny how that works....

Second, you said that "manking wore cloths from that time on." That isn't true. Clothing was not universally worn from that time on. In warmer climates people often did not wear clothing. In some places they still don't.
Quite true.

Third, regardinbg rape and adultry. I know of no evidence that nudity promotes either.
There is none. Rape is over power and desperation. Adultery, no way. But then, who really knows what causes adultery, because that is such a broad area.

I don't think you need more proof. We all know most men are lead by visuals.
No. This is a double negative as not only do we not know for a proven fact that most men are lead by visuals, but it is also implying, again without fact, that men are rapists and/or women are not. You say an awful lot, but all it does is amount to worthless fluff.
 
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Grafted In

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The nudity doesn'T bother me as much as "Christian" motorcycle clubs that practice some of the unsaved clubs' party practices. A local Christian club holds competitive weenie bites at their rallies. The suggestion should be obvious.
 
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No. This is a double negative as not only do we not know for a proven fact that most men are lead by visuals, but it is also implying, again without fact, that men are rapists and/or women are not. You say an awful lot, but all it does is amount to worthless fluff.
Calling a persons opinions worthless fluff isn't exactly good conduct.

Using the same words, all I see is twisting of scriptures and simple facts to suit your agenda. Whether we can say conclusively nudity leads to rape or adultery, really doesn't matter. You are still exposing yourself to tempting others - in mind or deed.

Just as causing a brother to sin, you are guilty also. What you do in your own home and privacy is one thing - in public is another. You know not the minds of the people you expose yourself too; so again - lead them to temptation and you are guilty also.
 
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HondaMan

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Then don’t do it...? Your life, your choice. My life, my choice. Funny how that works....


Quite true.


There is none. Rape is over power and desperation. Adultery, no way. But then, who really knows what causes adultery, because that is such a broad area.


No. This is a double negative as not only do we not know for a proven fact that most men are lead by visuals, but it is also implying, again without fact, that men are rapists and/or women are not. You say an awful lot, but all it does is amount to worthless fluff.

What I say is worthless stuff? You don't seem to realize this is a forum, where all opinions are shared. And what I said is accounts from the Bible. If that is worthless to you, then you need Jesus!
 
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Dave-W

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toramei

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The statement of men being rapists and not women is not totally accurate.A couple of years ago I was a juror involving domestic violence.The case involved involved rape of a man by a woman.The judge instructed us that this type of rape does occur and she has personally heard quite a few of them.
So rape an act of violence toward another human being is terrifying.Clothed or naked.
Temptation occurs in a variety of forms remember in the garden of Eden of how the evil one tempted Eve and the evil one did win.Other temptations occur daily like television commercials,certain types of clothing,this list could go on and on.
The most important thing is to walk hand in hand with GOD clothed in His righteousness unashamed.
 
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Dave-W

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The most important thing is to walk hand in hand with GOD clothed in His righteousness unashamed.
I have been looking for months for an on-line source for a pic I saw as a kid growing up. It was the pre-fall Adam and Eve who had these balls of golden light that covered them from shoulders to knees. No clothes so technically naked, but covered by God's glory so you could see none of their male or female parts; which meant unashamed.
 
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toramei

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Once again Christians focus on Adam and Eve after they dis obeyed.Pictures depict them with leaves on their genitalia.Even before the fall they are pictured behind a bush or tall grass.Christians are afraid of GOD created nudity.
Shame is a painful feeling of guilt for improper behavior as in eating of the fruit which they were commanded not to.
So when JESUS died on the cross for our sins and took our shame and guilt away.Why do we still feel guilty?
 
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Dave-W

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dayhiker

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I agree with legalism being a thing to fear. 3 times in my life I have let preaching create a legalism in my heart and those were the times I felt far from God.

I don't agree with the idea that God's glory covered the nakedness of Adam and Eve. I think they were naked as the story tells us.
 
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Dave-W

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I don't agree with the idea that God's glory covered the nakedness of Adam and Eve. I think they were naked as the story tells us.
I believe that was a construct of the Wesleyan Holiness movement of the late 1800s and into the 20th century.
 
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