American Dentist Identified as Killer of Famed Lion in Zimbabwe

[Aldebaran]

A police officer claiming something as a lawful order does not make it a lawful order, or even giving an order does not make it a law suddenly you have to obey.

I think he knew that. That's why he resorted to pointing a weapon at her face, threatening to "light her up". When words fail, resort to violence.

"Let's pose this question- suppose she had stepped out when he asked her to....THEN WHAT??? You were gonna scold her about the cigarette??? What was his plan?? What was going to be the purpose of pulling her out? "

We can't know for sure obviously, but I can't imagine what he would do to her besides scold her about the cigarette and possibly her attitude. He'd already given her the warning, it was when he was handing it to her to sign that the cigarette thing happened.

I think cops like to get people out of their vehicle in order to make the person feel more vulnerable since they're no longer in the safety of their vehicle, and of course it also opens the door to a search of the vehicle once the person is no longer in it.

 

[MiniEmu]

A lot of people in Zimbabwe do not (did not) know about Cecil the Lion, unless they're involved in the park and/or research project. Cecil was, and remains, far more famous with people outside of Zimbabwe.

Not everyone knows the park lines either, or fully understands their purpose. I can believe they had no idea which lion it was until they finally tracked him down, and given what prison in Zimbabwe can be like (especially if you kill something which brings people with money into the country), you're going to hide the evidence.

I know it looks very clear cut from certain positions, but it really isn't.

========================

I'm avoiding the other topic as I do not know enough about it.

However I do know a few police officers ask people to put out their cigarettes to prevent them being used as weapons against them. They also ask people to step out the car as a safety measure.

No idea if that is what the individual you're all talking about was doing.

 

[SnowyMacie]

and of course it also opens the door to a search of the vehicle once the person is no longer in it.

They still have to have probable cause to search your vehicle without a warrant. Even then, it must only contain what the officer suspects their to be probable cause. They can't just be like "hmm, it's high school students in blaring music in a car at midnight, I bet they have drugs in the car" so the officer pulls them over and asks them to step out to search the vehicle. (which actually happened to me).

 

[Aldebaran]

They still have to have probable cause to search your vehicle without a warrant. Even then, it must only contain what the officer suspects their to be probable cause. They can't just be like "hmm, it's high school students in blaring music in a car at midnight, I bet they have drugs in the car" so the officer pulls them over and asks them to step out to search the vehicle. (which actually happened to me).

What I see on the TV show "COPS" is that they ask every single time. I've seen it done even when the driver wasn't acting suspicious in any way. Usually, the driver gives consent. When they don't, they hold the person there until a drug dog can be brought to the scene. Either that, or the cop will tell the person that their refusal to allow a search makes the cop feel like they have something to hide, and that very feeling of suspicion gives them probable cause to search (which is something that happened to me in my own home one time. I called the police chief the next day and told him about it and of course he said the cop had the authority to enter and search my home without permission or warrant if they FELT suspicious).

 

[SnowyMacie]

What I see on the TV show "COPS" is that they ask every single time. I've seen it done even when the driver wasn't acting suspicious in any way. Usually, the driver gives consent. When they don't, they hold the person there until a drug dog can be brought to the scene. Either that, or the cop will tell the person that their refusal to allow a search makes the cop feel like they have something to hide, and that very feeling of suspicion gives them probable cause to search (which is something that happened to me in my own home one time. I called the police chief the next day and told him about it and of course he said the cop had the authority to enter and search my home without permission or warrant if they FELT suspicious).

They have to pull out the drug dog because refusing a search does not constitute probable cause. If you refuse a search and they find something, they could be legally up a creek. Courts have routinely ruled that refusing a search does not warrant probable cause.

 

[Messy]

 

[Lazy_Proverb]

August 4th - Delta, American ban shipment of big-game hunting trophies
Big game hunters who fly Delta or American airlines are going to have to find another way of getting their gory trophies home.

“Effective immediately, Delta will officially ban shipment of all lion, leopard, elephant, rhinoceros and buffalo trophies worldwide as freight,” the airline said in a statement Monday.

 

[Aldebaran]

They have to pull out the drug dog because refusing a search does not constitute probable cause. If you refuse a search and they find something, they could be legally up a creek. Courts have routinely ruled that refusing a search does not warrant probable cause.

Then I probably should have taken them to court after the time they entered my home. Shouldn't have counted on the police chief to look out for my interests. Too late now. That was about 20 years ago.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Then I probably should have taken them to court after the time they entered my home. Shouldn't have counted on the police chief to look out for my interests. Too late now. That was about 20 years ago.

If you let them in the door, they have every right to be in the home, you've considered yourself to consent at that point.

 

[Aldebaran]

If you let them in the door, they have every right to be in the home, you've considered yourself to consent at that point.

Yeah, I've heard that even answering the door after they pound on it gives them consent. When I opened the door, they didn't even ask to come in. They just walked into me as if I wasn't even standing there, pushing me backwards. If I had pushed back, they would have charged me with assault on an officer, even though they made the first physical contact with me.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Yeah, I've heard that even answering the door after they pound on it gives them consent. When I opened the door, they didn't even ask to come in. They just walked into me as if I wasn't even standing there, pushing me backwards. If I had pushed back, they would have charged me with assault on an officer, even though they made the first physical contact with me.

Answering the door is not consent. In fact, if they have a warrant, they have to legally give you "reasonable time" to answer the door before they can bust into the house. You can't push back, but you can file a lawsuit. If they found anything illegal in your house, tell your lawyer exactly what happened.

 

[Lazy_Proverb]

Yeah, I've heard that even answering the door after they pound on it gives them consent. When I opened the door, they didn't even ask to come in. They just walked into me as if I wasn't even standing there, pushing me backwards. If I had pushed back, they would have charged me with assault on an officer, even though they made the first physical contact with me.

Did they have a warrant?

 

[MehGuy]

Mods please shut down this thread. It has ran it's course.

 

[Aldebaran]

Did they have a warrant?

No. All they had was a noise complaint from the next door neighbor and their claim of seeing me "lunge for something" when they shouted at me through my living room window at 2am. They said they wanted to make sure I didn't have any weapons, which I did---and was legal.

 

[Lazy_Proverb]

I hope you sought legal counsel. Subpoena the police report and the neighbor that made the allegation. That's wrongful entry and trespass when they entered your home by pushing past you and without a warrant.
Probable cause doesn't apply when it is a simple alleged noise complaint. At 2 A.M? If they woke you up with their knocking and if your house was dark due to your being retired for the evening.

 

[Aldebaran]

I hope you sought legal counsel. Subpoena the police report and the neighbor that made the allegation. That's wrongful entry and trespass when they entered your home by pushing past you and without a warrant.
Probable cause doesn't apply when it is a simple alleged noise complaint. At 2 A.M? If they woke you up with their knocking and if your house was dark due to your being retired for the evening.

I was actually awake at the time and had lights on. I only found out that the neighbor had called the cops when they admitted it later when they threatened to call them on me again because I told the guy to "watch his mouth" after he started swearing at me.
Oddly, I had reason to believe that this neighbor was coming into my home and stealing things while I was gone. Whoever was doing it always managed to come in and steal things when I was away from home--even for 20 minutes. The neighbor was the only one who could know when I went somewhere since they were next door. It was a rental house, so I figure a former tenant probably had given them a key at some point and never got it back. Once I got the lock changed, the thefts stopped.
As for police's rights, people seem to have varying degrees of luck in keeping the cops with no warrants out of their house. http://jonathanturley.org/2013/05/1...rrant-police-kick-down-door-and-taser-couple/

 

[Lazy_Proverb]

If your residence looks out over your vehicle parking space I'd suggest buying a security camera and installing it to observe that space. This neighbor sounds dangerous and vindictive. No telling if they'd seek reprisals against your vehicle since they can no longer allegedly enter your residence. Having a locking gas cap is always a good idea as well.
My family had gas siphoned from their vehicles when gas was over $4.00 a gallon there.
But locks also stop people from putting sugar in and other things that can cost an engine block.

Good that you changed your locks.
Without proof you can't really pursue looking into that neighbors house for your property. Just keep an eye out. Especially if they threaten police action for no good cause in future. Filing false police reports is illegal and prosecutable under law.

As for the police link, yes, there's a lot of bad things happening in America now as far as police overreach and corruption.
I expect one day it may settle down when illegal trespass with a badge on results in officers down because a home owner defended their castle.

What a world we live in.

 

[Gnarwhal]

What in the world? I started this thread off about Cecil, now I don't even know what you people are talking about!

 

[Aldebaran]

If your residence looks out over your vehicle parking space I'd suggest buying a security camera and installing it to observe that space. This neighbor sounds dangerous and vindictive. No telling if they'd seek reprisals against your vehicle since they can no longer allegedly enter your residence. Having a locking gas cap is always a good idea as well.
My family had gas siphoned from their vehicles when gas was over $4.00 a gallon there.
But locks also stop people from putting sugar in and other things that can cost an engine block.

Good that you changed your locks.
Without proof you can't really pursue looking into that neighbors house for your property. Just keep an eye out. Especially if they threaten police action for no good cause in future. Filing false police reports is illegal and prosecutable under law.

As for the police link, yes, there's a lot of bad things happening in America now as far as police overreach and corruption.
I expect one day it may settle down when illegal trespass with a badge on results in officers down because a home owner defended their castle.

What a world we live in.

Well, this was 20 years ago and I haven't lived there in a very long time. I was only there for a couple years before I moved. We didn't have the technology back then that we have now, but I always see things today that make me think, "Boy, if they had this 20 years ago, I would have caught that thief easily!". Security cameras today are soooooo much better and cheaper!

 

[Aldebaran]

What in the world? I started this thread off about Cecil, now I don't even know what you people are talking about!

Cecil who? Most people in Zimbabwe don't even know: http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/8/cecil-who-zimbabweans-ask.html