What were British Royal ties with the Nazi regime? | The Guardian

[faroukfarouk]

This is scurrillous. The Sun has been making money for over 40 years through pictures of topless women. Now it wants to use the picture of a 6 year old to smear a head of state.

Prince Philip, The Queen's husband, served in the Royal Navy in World War Two. King George VI, the present Queen's father, symbolically led the war effort against Nazi Germany. The present Queen herself served in uniform in World War Two.

If people want to argue for a republic, they should do so honestly, and not stoop to joining inappropriate contentographers to smear the Queen.

 

[LoAmmi]

Yes, I understand that is your perspective on the Holocaust. Ursula seems to refer especially to the German civilians who were bombed, captured, tortured, killed, raped (often by hundreds of Allied soldiers at a time), forced to watch their loved ones raped like that, crucified, dismembered, etc. Like I said, multiple sides to a story.

Let's say all of that is true. It has nothing to do with the killing of 12 million innocents by Nazi hands. She is making some kind of bizarre either or argument which isn't even mutually exclusive.

 

[Oafman]

Is it in the public interest to know what the Royal Family was like in the 1930s? I'd say almost certainly not; sure, it may one day be a (moderately) interesting module on a history University course. But seeing a six year old Elizabeth doing a salute isn't exactly a pressing issue to the public.

The Royal Family we have today is very different to the one 80 years ago.

But the history of our nation is very much in the public interest. And the relationship the Royals had with the Nazis is part of that history.

Did Hitler really line up Eddy VIII to be his puppet ruler of Britain after a successful invasion? Did he communicate that to Edward? Perhaps the Palace archives would tell us.

 

[ananda]

Let's say all of that is true. It has nothing to do with the killing of 12 million innocents by Nazi hands. She is making some kind of bizarre either or argument which isn't even mutually exclusive.

12 million? I thought it was 6.

Ursula claims 20 million innocents were killed by Allied hands. Suffering on both sides.

 

[faroukfarouk]

But the history of our nation is very much in the public interest. And the relationship the Royals had with the Nazis is part of that history.

Did Hitler really line up Eddy VIII to be his puppet ruler of Britain after a successful invasion? Did he communicate that to Edward? Perhaps the Palace archives would tell us.

Very much over stated; see post #81.

 

[keith99]

Check out the evidence she presents in the video "Ursula Haverbeck: The Panorama Interview" (should be on youtube). Also, the documentary "Hellstorm" might be of related interest.

She makes claims (some probably true, I strongly suspect most citing the largest of an estimate as the most likely) and makes arguments.

I'll take just one argument, that countries can make internment camps for their protection against foreigners. Fine, how long must a Jewish family have lived in the same village in Germany to be considered German? There were many who had lived there longer than the United States had existed.

And how loyal must one such be? My ex wife was born and raised in Trier. Her parents and for that matter pretty much everyone there who was a teen or older during WW II remembered one Jewish man who was decorated during WW I. He stayed, he was a loyal German anyone reading his war record would know that. They did come for him and he never returned.

How can anyone other than a radical anti Semite think a Jew whose family has lived in the same part of Germany for over 200 years think that Jew is not German?

 

[ananda]

She makes claims (some probably true, I strongly suspect most citing the largest of an estimate as the most likely) and makes arguments.

I'll take just one argument, that countries can make internment camps for their protection against foreigners. Fine, how long must a Jewish family have lived in the same village in Germany to be considered German? There were many who had lived there longer than the United States had existed.

And how loyal must one such be? My ex wife was born and raised in Trier. Her parents and for that matter pretty much everyone there who was a teen or older during WW II remembered one Jewish man who was decorated during WW I. He stayed, he was a loyal German anyone reading his war record would know that. They did come for him and he never returned.

How can anyone other than a radical anti Semite think a Jew whose family has lived in the same part of Germany for over 200 years think that Jew is not German?

The argument is no different than how the United States and Canada also placed those with Japanese, German, and Italian ancestry, etc., in internment camps.

How can anyone other than a radical anti Oriental think a Japanese whose family has lived in the same part of the United States for over 200 years think that Japanese is not American?

Goes both ways.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Research Ursula Haverbeck and her videos and research, it would help anyone interested get started.

Is she your sole source for this revisionist history?

 

[ananda]

Is she your sole source for this revisionist history?

No, I merely suggested her a starting point for anyone interested.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

No, I merely suggested her a starting point for anyone interested.

Got anybody else who isn't the wife of a nazi?

 

[Arcangl86]

Curious.

I thought the Guardian was more vaunted as a liberal source than the New York Times. Thanks for correcting that impression.

Of course, the Guardian did publish the Edward Snowden papers when no one else would.

He was referring to a statement made by the editor of the Sun.

 

[Oafman]

Very much over stated; see post #81.

How about they make the Palace archives available to historians, and we'll find out whether or not these accusations have been overstated?

This is scurrillous. The Sun has been making money for over 40 years through pictures of topless women. Now it wants to use the picture of a 6 year old to smear a head of state.

Prince Philip, The Queen's husband, served in the Royal Navy in World War Two. King George VI, the present Queen's father, symbolically led the war effort against Nazi Germany. The present Queen herself served in uniform in World War Two.

If people want to argue for a republic, they should do so honestly, and not stoop to joining inappropriate contentographers to smear the Queen.

Firstly, the Sun does not have a republican editorial policy. Far from it, look at their jingoistic Royalist coverage of any Royal event. They published this image to sell papers, not to smear the Queen. Although this history is in the public interest, the Sun could not care less about that.

As for the service of various members of the Royal family, what does that have to do with it? Prince Philip of Greece was not even a member of the family during WWII. What I want to know is; what relationship did Kings Edward and Albert/George have with the Nazis, and what communications were made? Did one or both have leanings towards Nazism, and did they lead their family astray? Could images of fun in the garden with Nazi salutes be evidence of that? This stuff is public interest.

 

[SuperCloud]

The argument is no different than how the United States and Canada also placed those with Japanese, German, and Italian ancestry, etc., in internment camps.

How can anyone other than a radical anti Oriental think a Japanese whose family has lived in the same part of the United States for over 200 years think that Japanese is not American?

Goes both ways.

Neither of my German-American grandparents were put into any camps. Never heard of any Italians in Milwaukee getting carted off either.

I do know that the Japanese were put in camps and often lost all their positions or had to sell their stores for pennies on a dollar. So, to that extent I agree with you.

And to be fair... people in the USA back then were no lovers of Jewish people either. They didn't gas them though or starve them nearly to death.

 

[NightHawkeye]

He was referring to a statement made by the editor of the Sun.

Just to be clear, the OP is about what the Guardian has to say ... that's even in the thread Title. Do stay on topic.

 

[keith99]

The argument is no different than how the United States and Canada also placed those with Japanese, German, and Italian ancestry, etc., in internment camps.

How can anyone other than a radical anti Oriental think a Japanese whose family has lived in the same part of the United States for over 200 years think that Japanese is not American?

Goes both ways.

Yea there were lots of Japanese who had lived in the United States for over 200 years in 1940.

Oh wait, there were not.

And both sides of my family are largely German. Guess they really messed up giving my Uncle a security clearance. (Uncle had some involvement with the bomb and worked at Lawrence Livermore lab for quite a while).

 

[ananda]

Neither of my German-American grandparents were put into any camps. Never heard of any Italians in Milwaukee getting carted off either.

"Immediately after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, President Roosevelt issued Presidential Proclamations 2525, 2526, and 2527 to authorize the United States to detain allegedly potentially dangerous enemy aliens. The FBI and other law enforcement agencies arrested thousands of suspected enemy aliens, mostly individuals of German, Italian, or Japanese ancestry, living throughout the United States." (source)

I do know that the Japanese were put in camps and often lost all their positions or had to sell their stores for pennies on a dollar. So, to that extent I agree with you.

And to be fair... people in the USA back then were no lovers of Jewish people either. They didn't gas them though or starve them nearly to death.

According to Ursula, the gas chambers and most stories of inhumane conditions were a lie. So, who knows?

Yea there were lots of Japanese who had lived in the United States for over 200 years in 1940.

Oh wait, there were not.

And both sides of my family are largely German. Guess they really messed up giving my Uncle a security clearance. (Uncle had some involvement with the bomb and worked at Lawrence Livermore lab for quite a while).

My main point remains, there were internment camps in the US as well - the Allies aren't pure as driven snow.

 

[keith99]

"Immediately after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, President Roosevelt issued Presidential Proclamations 2525, 2526, and 2527 to authorize the United States to detain allegedly potentially dangerous enemy aliens. The FBI and other law enforcement agencies arrested thousands of suspected enemy aliens, mostly individuals of German, Italian, or Japanese ancestry, living throughout the United States." (source)

According to Ursula, the gas chambers and most stories of inhumane conditions were a lie. So, who knows?

My main point remains, there were internment camps in the US as well - the Allies aren't pure as driven snow.

The allies were not perfect saints therefore no Holocaust?

And you compare Nisei, second generation Japanese who were the adults with the deepest roots in the U.S. to Jews who had been in Germany for Hundreds of years!

You are grasping at straws.

And you do realize the camps were liberated by common U.S. and English soldiers and that in some cases there were cameras. There are 1000s of pictures on walking skeletons and dead that were in a similar state before their demise.

Who knows? Anyone without an agenda.

 

[Arcangl86]

Just to be clear, the OP is about what the Guardian has to say ... that's even in the thread Title. Do stay on topic.

The comment you were trying to use to say that the Guardian suddenly lost credibility was a quote IN THE ARTICLE by the editor of the Sun. So I apparently read the article better then you did.

 

[ananda]

The allies were not perfect saints therefore no Holocaust?

And you compare Nisei, second generation Japanese who were the adults with the deepest roots in the U.S. to Jews who had been in Germany for Hundreds of years!

You are grasping at straws.

So you're suggesting that it more right for a government to discriminate against one culture which has been established for a few decades versus another culture established for hundreds of years?

And you do realize the camps were liberated by common U.S. and English soldiers and that in some cases there were cameras. There are 1000s of pictures on walking skeletons and dead that were in a similar state before their demise.

The other side claims that many of those pictures were hoaxed.

Who knows? Anyone without an agenda.

Yes, who knows, but who has no agenda?

 

[faroukfarouk]

How about they make the Palace archives available to historians, and we'll find out whether or not these accusations have been overstated?


Firstly, the Sun does not have a republican editorial policy. Far from it, look at their jingoistic Royalist coverage of any Royal event. They published this image to sell papers, not to smear the Queen. Although this history is in the public interest, the Sun could not care less about that.

As for the service of various members of the Royal family, what does that have to do with it? Prince Philip of Greece was not even a member of the family during WWII. What I want to know is; what relationship did Kings Edward and Albert/George have with the Nazis, and what communications were made? Did one or both have leanings towards Nazism, and did they lead their family astray? Could images of fun in the garden with Nazi salutes be evidence of that? This stuff is public interest.

Murdoch press having republican leanings is something that has been widely commented.

Prince Philip was already in Britain in World War Two, having met the present Queen at Dartmouth Naval College in 1939.

The idea that George VI was pro-Nazi is utterly without foundation.

The Sun and Guardian are being mischievous.