What were British Royal ties with the Nazi regime? | The Guardian

[FreeSpirit74]

It is quite possible we should. I came across some evidence that at the least he should be reviled for something quite different than he usually is. It seems that England was more of a paper tiger than we are led to believe and that Neville may well have been playing a difficult game trying to buy time to change that.

If this is correct then he should only be blamed for the part he played in letting the British military get in that state. Note I said the part he played, as he was not a dictator the odds are there was plenty of blame to go around for being unprepared.

Well, of course it was. Why do you think Lend-Lease came into existence? I had to read Herman Wouk's novels The Winds of War and War and Remembrance to learn about that little piece of WWII history - how the USA was in the war long before Pearl Harbor, because we were supplying England and Russia with what they needed to fight the Germans. They didn't teach us about that in high school history class! Just that "the USA was neutral until after Pearl Harbor."

Anyone who wants the full picture of that war needs to read those two books.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

Most, if not all of those people are probably dead by now.

Herman Wouk is still alive, at 100. He served in the US Navy in the Pacific during WWII. He also went on to write two of the best books on WWII ever written, as well as the two miniseries that were based on those books. It took him 7 years to write each book, due to the copious amount of research required. Would you call him a liar?

 

[ananda]

Herman Wouk is still alive, at 100. He served in the US Navy in the Pacific during WWII. He also went on to write two of the best books on WWII ever written, as well as the two miniseries that were based on those books. It took him 7 years to write each book, due to the copious amount of research required. Would you call him a liar?

I have no idea, I can't presume to judge his heart, nor do I have knowledge of his circumstances, associations, or otherwise. It seems he has a Jewish background, so I wouldn't be surprised if he had incentive to promote one side of the story, but I don't know.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

And to be fair... people in the USA back then were no lovers of Jewish people either. They didn't gas them though or starve them nearly to death.

They must not have realized that most of the entertainers they were watching and listening to at that time were Jewish. The Marx Brothers, the Three Stooges (the Howard brothers definitely were, and most likely Larry too, whose real last name was Feinberg), just about everyone on Broadway and most of Hollywood...

 

[bhsmte]

I have no idea, I can't presume to judge his heart, nor do I have knowledge of his circumstances, associations, or otherwise. It seems he has a Jewish background, so I wouldn't be surprised if he had incentive to promote one side of the story, but I don't know.

With anyone writing history, you don't trust his heart, you investigate his sources and his method of determining what is most likely to be true, based on the evidence.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

I have no idea, I can't presume to judge his heart, nor do I have knowledge of his circumstances, associations, or otherwise. It seems he has a Jewish background, so I wouldn't be surprised if he had incentive to promote one side of the story, but I don't know.

He wrote from both sides, just as John Jakes did when he wrote the North and South trilogy (Civil War). Interspersed with the actual storyline is a translation of two books written by the fictional Prussian general Armin von Roon in his prison cell where he served time after Nuremberg. The first is World Empire Lost and the second is World Holocaust. These passages tell the German side of the story.

BTW, parts of War and Remembrance were actually shot in Auschwitz, and most of the extras in the transport sequence went through the selection lines for real back in the 1940's, as children. Chaim Topol and Jane Seymour are part of the cast - both of them had parents in concentration camps. One of the executive producers, Branko Lustig, was a prisoner in Auschwitz as a teenager. Gunter Meisner, who plays Hitler in Winds of War grew up in Germany during the Hitler years (he was 6 when Hitler came to power, so he watched that whole ugly era unfold. He, no doubt, was a part of the Hitler Youth, because membership was required, even if you disagreed with the ideals of Nazism. Some children threatened to turn their parents in if they didn't let them join.

Do you have Netflix? If so, I would suggest you pull up and watch Forgiving Dr. Mengele and Hitler's Children. The first focuses on Eva Korr, one of the so-called "Mengele twins" who were the victims of horrific experiments while in Auschwitz. The second focuses on the grand nieces of Goering and Himmler, the grandson of Rudolf Hoess (the commandant of Auschwitz), the son of the commander-general of occupied Poland, and the daughter of Amon Goeth, who was portrayed in the movie Schindler's List. She actually went to see the movie when it first came out, in Nuremberg, and she had a breakdown because of it. She also talks about working in a tavern and meeting one of the survivors of Plaszow, the camp he commanded.

Would you call any of those people liars?

 

[FreeSpirit74]

I don't know for sure

Well, this speaks for itself. Please go and find a Holocaust denier forum where the garbage you are spewing in this thread will be more welcome.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

If you don't wish to examine both sides, that's your right. I see things differently.

You don't seem to want to, either. I don't know if you are trying (badly) to play Devil's Advocate with the topic, or if you are just another denier.

 

[ananda]

With anyone writing history, you don't trust his heart, you investigate his sources and his method of determining what is most likely to be true, based on the evidence.

I was addressing FreeSpirit74's question if I believed him to be a liar, but yes, the true test is examination of various evidences - from both sides.

 

[bhsmte]

I was addressing FreeSpirit74's question if I believed him to be a liar, but yes, the true test is examination of various evidences - from both sides.

Evidence doesn't choose sides, it is just there.

 

[ananda]

Well, this speaks for itself. Please go and find a Holocaust denier forum where the garbage you are spewing in this thread will be more welcome.

You don't seem to want to, either. I don't know if you are trying (badly) to play Devil's Advocate with the topic, or if you are just another denier.

Is I have repeatedly stated multiple times in this thread, I am not advocating for either side. In fact, my suspicion is that neither side is wholly correct, and a third, hidden side is manipulating both sides.

If you wish to attack me personally via ad hominems or judge my heart for not adhering to your favored side, then this ends our discussion.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

I was addressing FreeSpirit74's question if I believed him to be a liar, but yes, the true test is examination of various evidences - from both sides.

It took him 14 years to write both books, 7 years per book, plus he also wrote the screenplays for both miniseries.

Cripe, next thing you be claiming that director Dan Curtis built the entire Auschwitz compound because that never actually existed either.

 

[ananda]

It took him 14 years to write both books, 7 years per book, plus he also wrote the screenplays for both miniseries.

Doesn't mean a thing to me, except that he is persistent.

 

[ananda]

Evidence doesn't choose sides, it is just there.

I agree. Would you agree that the laws shielding any real investigation of primary evidence in various countries should be abandoned?

 

[FreeSpirit74]

Doesn't mean a thing to me, except that he is persistent.

He felt that this was a story that needed to be told. Everything that is depicted in both novels happened to someone during the years 1939 and 1945.

 

[bhsmte]

I agree. Would you agree that the laws shielding any real investigation of primary evidence in various countries should be abandoned?

Could you cite the specific laws in regards to shielding real investigation of the evidence?

 

[Lavendar Frog]

This possibly made news because the royal family are German Their origin is from the House of Orange. While the last name they adopted, Windsor, was derived from one of their estates.

That being said, everyone in that video is dead save the current queen of England. Holding up a child's innocent very brief Nazi salute as a means of smearing the grown woman who's over 80 years removed from that time is about as low as journalism can go.
What's it mean? Nothing! She was a child.

 

[ananda]

Could you cite the specific laws in regards to shielding real investigation of the evidence?

"§ 261a The person who publicly denies, puts in doubt, approves or tries to justify nazi or communist genocide or other crimes of nazis or communists will be punished by prison of 6 months to 3 years." (Czech Republic)
"Art 9. – As an amendment to Article 24 of the law of July 29, 1881 on the freedom of the press, article 24 (a) is as follows written: <<Art. 24 (a). - those who have disputed the existence of one or more crimes against humanity such as they are defined by Article 6 of the statute of the international tribunal military annexed in the agreement of London of August 8, 1945 and which were a carried out either by the members of an organization declared criminal pursuant to Article 9 of the aforementioned statute, or by a person found guilty such crimes by a French or international jurisdiction shall be punished by one month to one year's imprisonment or a fine." (France)
"Whoever publicly or in a meeting disturbs the public peace in a manner that assaults the human dignity of the victims by approving of, denying or rendering harmless the violent and arbitrary National Socialist rule shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine" (Germany)

etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

 

[bhsmte]

"§ 261a The person who publicly denies, puts in doubt, approves or tries to justify nazi or communist genocide or other crimes of nazis or communists will be punished by prison of 6 months to 3 years." (Czech Republic)
"Art 9. – As an amendment to Article 24 of the law of July 29, 1881 on the freedom of the press, article 24 (a) is as follows written: <<Art. 24 (a). - those who have disputed the existence of one or more crimes against humanity such as they are defined by Article 6 of the statute of the international tribunal military annexed in the agreement of London of August 8, 1945 and which were a carried out either by the members of an organization declared criminal pursuant to Article 9 of the aforementioned statute, or by a person found guilty such crimes by a French or international jurisdiction shall be punished by one month to one year's imprisonment or a fine." (France)
"Whoever publicly or in a meeting disturbs the public peace in a manner that assaults the human dignity of the victims by approving of, denying or rendering harmless the violent and arbitrary National Socialist rule shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine" (Germany)

etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

I see nothing in these laws that prohibit investigation of the evidence.

 

[ananda]

I see nothing in these laws that prohibit investigation of the evidence.

I do.