Once Saved Always Saved: Fact or Fiction?

jackthejesusfreak · Jul 20, 2015

This is easy. Yes, once SAVED, always savsa!

Anyone who harmonizes scripture can see this plainly.

Anyone who claims to be saved, but lives like a heathen, thinking they 'lost' their salvation, OR anyone who claims salvation, then walks away from God, being perceived as losing their salvation, were never SAVED to begin with. You can't lose what you never had!

Bradley Harris · Jul 20, 2015

Here's one possible argument against the literal OSAS position...

God issues us with free will. Free will, presumably, includes the ever-present possibility of rejecting God, rejecting one's belief in God, and becoming, say, an atheist.

Are atheists (of this sort) then nonetheless saved?

To assert so would seem very odd indeed.

The message--well supported by scripture, I'd say, including many passages quoted here by others in this debate--is that one must not only "get with the program...One must stay with the program.

Boudine Leigh · Jul 20, 2015

Boudine Leigh · Jul 20, 2015

Greetings in Jesus name. I've read the comments... Wow some of the people who have commented really do need to pray and ask God for wisdom in understanding his word. Do you believe that once you are saved you are always saved? So basically you can sin everyday and still expect to have your place kept in heaven? I'm a 24 year old believer in Jesus and as young as I am I can understand what God expects from me. I follow his commandments and stay away from sin. Read the word and understand what God wants from us. How can we save this world for Jesus if believers do not understand the word of God? Come on fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord.. We need wisdom to get more people to heaven. God bless

Boudine Leigh · Jul 20, 2015

Amen

Amen!

alexxmedeiros · Jul 20, 2015

At work and don't have the time to read all of the comments so sorry if this was already mentioned...

I think this is a problem with most Arminians (or like minded folk) who believe that we have the ultimate say in our salvation. Because if you believe in Unconditional Election then Romans 8:29-30 is amazing. A well known verse also called the "golden chain of redemption."

NASB
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

So even if you don't believe here that Paul is speaking of unconditional election there is still absolutely no way you can break the chain. If someone is called he is then justified, if someone is justified he is then glorified. If someone is not glorifed (any unbeliever) then it is safe to say they were never justified in the first place

There is also one more very powerful verse I would like to address.

John 6:40 NASB
"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

If you have truly believed in the work and name of Jesus Christ, He Himself will raise you up on the last day, period. Unless of course Jesus is a liar.

Brother Chris · Jul 20, 2015

It's a fact, but it doesn't apply to everyone who names the name of Christ.

JLB777 · Jul 20, 2015

Good for you. Your heart has not become hardened to the truth.

Here are some scriptures for you to consider -

19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire." 2 Peter 2:19-22

Key Verse:

after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.

For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
Hebrew 3:12-14

Key Verse:

... an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight--
23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Colossians 1:21-23

Key Verse:

yet now He has reconciled ...if indeed you continue in the faith
are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard

But he who endures to the end shall be saved. Matthew 24:13

JLB

JLB777 · Jul 20, 2015

Chapter and verse please?

It's just not found in the bible.

JLB

Domenic · Jul 20, 2015

This is pasted from the blog article 111 Reasons Why the Doctrine of Eternal Security (or Unconditional Security) Is Biblically Untenable. The blog post lists 111 reasons. Following are a few from it.
The Doctrine of “Eternal Security” teaches that a person who has come to a salvific knowledge of Jesus Christ will never turn away from Christ and “lose” his salvation. The doctrine violates several scriptural assumptions and assumes, among many things, that God is ultimately responsible for evil in the world. Contrary to that position, we maintain that a person who has come to know Christ can depart away from faith in Him and lose the privilege of salvation. While the controversy is a large one (with roots dating back to the Augustinian-Pelagian controversy related to depravity and freedom), it is evident from all scriptural, rational, and empirical facts that the doctrine of eternal security violates key assumptions of scripture, reason, and experience. This post will point out some of the problems related to the doctrine.
Following are some reasons for the position:

Salvation is not a gift apart from Christ. Therefore, to lose faith in Christ means to lose Christ and His salvation.
To be “born again” doesn’t mean constitutional regeneration; neither the body nor the soul nor the spirit undergoes involuntary [constitutional] transformation in this event. To be born by the word means to respond by faith to the word (Heb.4:1,2). To be born by the Spirit is to respond to the voice of the Spirit in the positive (Jn.3:3,7). Regeneration is not involuntary in the faith-response aspect. However, regeneration in the resurrection or transformation of this vile body to conform to His glorious one will be by the act of God on the Final Day (Phil.3:21).
Justification is not apart from Christ. To deny Christ by works means to return to the unjustified position.
God desires all men to be saved; however, only those who believe (by free choice, not by mechanical compulsion) receive eternal life and the right to be called the sons of God.
Eternal life is not apart from the life of the Triune God- the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
To have the Spirit means to have love, which is the fruit of the Spirit; he that doesn’t have love doesn’t have life (1Jn.3:15).
Christians are asked to watch against the root of bitterness, which can destroy self and others (Heb.12:15).
Jesus warned of ravenous wolves that came to destroy the sheep (Matt.7:15); if the destruction was not possible, the warning would be meaningless.
To argue that God is playing a game in which the dices move, but they are ultimately moved by God is to reduce the moral world into a mechanical system, which in turn reduces God into a sadist sovereign, if “moral freedom” is still insisted upon. To say that God gives people moral freedom but arranges things in a way that they will always fall into sin is to ultimately point at God as the author of evil. This is blasphemy against God.
Some non-biblical traditions maintain that the life, nature, and destiny of humans has been predetermined by either past events, by forces of nature, by some impersonal law, or by the writ of God. For such, freedom and determinism are compatible. However, no law court will accept the theory of determinism in condemning the guilty for making evil choices in their right mind. Even if one were to say that he was just a "cog" in the evil machine or system, every person is held responsible for the acts that he chooses.
To maintain that we have freedom and yet are compelled [as in compatibilism] is to remove the basis of truth and try to hang it upon nothing. While one notes the epistemic possibility of both freedom and determinism in the mind, as in the Kantian Antinomies, reason demands that truth be unaffected by the causal relations of the world and possess the property of freedom. The Laws of Logic (of Identity, Non-contradiction, and the Excluded Middle) are fundamental to truth-commitment (or else one can't be singular in assertion; if everything can be true, then nothing is true). The either/or exclusion is an essential condition of truth. So, while our coming to knowledge of truth is contingent on several events (hearing, understanding, communication principles..), the faith-response (or truth-commitment) as a voluntary act cannot be both determined (involuntary) and free (voluntary) at the same time; it is either/or.
To say that freedom doesn’t exist is to commit the same error of removing the basis of truth and asserting something as true at the same time. If freedom doesn’t exist, truth and error no longer exist as free categories of perception. But, if truth doesn’t exist, the statement “We are irresistibly compelled and yet free” becomes self-contradictory. How does one know that the statement is true if truth is no longer absolute and transcendent?
The doctrine of eternal security is not open to falsification, violating an empirical principle of verification. How can you refute a statement if it is constructed in a way that doesn’t admit of refutation? But, this limitation is only empirical and not scriptural. For instance, if we point out a person and say that “See, he was saved but now is lost,” the objection would be “He is lost because he was never saved in the first place.” Such a definition doesn’t admit of empirical falsification. However, we have many scriptural assertions that testify against the presuppositions, assumptions, and conclusions of the doctrine of eternal security.
The “Be not deceived” warnings in the Bible are directed towards Christians warning them to watch against deception so that they don’t perish (1Cor.6:9-10; Gal.6:7-8).
Christians are warned that those who sow to the flesh and live according to the flesh will reap corruption and death (perdition); but, they who sow to the Spirit and mortify the deeds of the body by the Spirit will reap everlasting life (Gal.6:8; Rom.8:13).
The Sovereignty of God in Romans 9 doesn’t contradict faith as the condition for salvation. God has the right to save anyone who responds to His call and enters His vineyard. He has the right to equally reward the first-comers (Jews) and the latecomers (Tax collectors, sinners, gentiles) alike. (Rom.9; Matt.20:1-16).
In the empirical, we know who is Christ’s sheep and who is not by their faith-response to Jesus, the sheep hear His voice (Jn.10:26-27). However, this doesn’t mean that some have been created as Christ’s sheep and some are created as not His sheep. The truth is that everything and everyone has been created by Christ and for Christ, giving Him the sole right of redemption of the whole flock. However, only those who make the choice to choose Christ are His sheep, and they stand and fall by their choice.
Humanity fell by one man’s choice; but, each human is saved by his own single choice.Therefore, in the resurrection, the saints are a multitude of sons (not sons, grandsons, and great grandsons).
A number of compellers do exist behind every choice; however, they do not absolutely determine a person’s choice; therefore, a person is ultimately responsible for the choice that he makes (either between good and evil; or between a lesser evil and a greater evil). It means God doesn’t predestine human choices.
Jesus commanded people to strive to enter in at the narrow gate (Matt.7:13; Luke 13:24) before the gate shuts down. It implies that humans are responsible for choosing life or death.
Jesus warned that not all who say “Lord, Lord” shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but only those who do the will of the Father. This implies that man is morally held responsible for “doing” the will of the Father. (Matt.7:21)
Jesus tells to the others who don’t do the will of the Father, “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity”. If God ordained these people to perdition, then it would mean that God ordained them to work iniquity in order to condemn them; which is a blasphemous thesis, for it depicts God as the author of sin.
Jesus pronounced woe upon Chorazin and Bethsaida and the other cities because they did not repent though God had given them greater evidences to compel repentance than He had given to Tyre and Sidon (Matt.11:21,22). It implies that God expected these cities to repent, but they chose not to repent and so inherited a greater woe. The woe was commensurate with the degree of evidences God gave.
In the Parable of the Sower and the Seed (Matt.13:1-8, 18-24), it is evident that Jesus doesn’t treat the human heart as a passive ground; but, as a volitional faculty. The Parable is descriptive but not normative. It uses “ground” as an illustration, not as an example.
The tares in the Parable of Wheat and Tares (Matt.13:24-30) are sown by the enemy while men slept. It is a picture of unbelievers mixed up with believers in the kingdom of God, and a reminder that before the End of the Age, the visible kingdom of God will be a mixed multitude. This anticipates the final separation of wheat from tares at the End of the Age. It certainly does not mean that God created a greater segment of humanity as tares and handed it over to Satan to sow among the wheat of the Son of God. That is absurd.
In the Parable of the Unforgiving Servant (Matt.18:23-35), a forgiven man's forgiveness became invalid and was withdrawn the moment it was found that he violated the principles of mercy by behaving according to the law and not according to mercy with regard to others. His forgiveness was withdrawn the moment it was found he failed to forgive others. How can one be forgiven and then be "unforgiven" again? We have the answer in this Parable.
The terms “children of the wicked one” (Matt.13:38), “of that wicked one” (1Jn.3:12), “of the devil” (1Jn.3:8), and “your father the devil” (Jn.8:44) do not imply that these people were created by the devil or originated from the devil. They also don’t mean that God created these for the devil. For, the Bible is very clear that “all things were created by Him, and for Him” (Col.1:16).
Jesus said, “he who endures to the end shall be saved” (Matt.24:13); He DIDN’T SAY “he who is saved shall endure to the end.”
The blessed will inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world, not because the kingdom was prepared for them, but because they clothed Christ when He was naked, visited Him when He was sick, and came to Him when He was in prison (Matt.25:31-40). In other words, God has prepared the kingdom for those who would choose to inherit the kingdom by walking and working towards and not against the kingdom.
People are ultimately responsible for having their hearts hardened to the effect that having eyes they do not see and having ears they do not hear (Mark 8:17,18).
Divine abandonment of those who harden their hearts to the testimony of God in creation and through the Spirit doesn’t mean that God created them as the abandoned; but, God abandons them because God sees that they have made an irreversible choice to reject God (Heb.3:7; Rom.1:21-28;2Thess.2:10-12).
Jesus said that unless people repented, they would all perish (Luke 13:3). In other words, salvation is not unconditional but conditional; the condition is repentance and faith.
In the Parable of the Barren Fig Tree, Jesus intercedes for the fig tree to be given more time for it to bear fruit. It proves that God gives everyone opportunity to repent; such an opportunity would be meaningless if the opportunity didn’t exist (in the sense that there was no possibility for the fig tree to bear fruit). Those who argue that God gives the opportunity to prove to the lost that they are inherently lost, are hinging their arguments on the “justice” of God rather than on the “mercies” of God. However, the fact that God gives opportunity to repent is proof of His mercy, for His justice is already evident without the opportunity to repent. He is longsuffering because He is “not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance” (Luke 13:6-9; 2Pet.3:9).
John 3:16 says that God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son. Here the word “world” means all humanity. Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved (Jn.3:17). If only the “sheep” were intended here, then the word “world” would not be used; for, again it says in verse 19, “And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light….”
People reject the light of God not because they are created for condemnation; they reject the light because their deeds are evil and therefore they hate the light that exposes their wickedness (Jn.3:19-20). It refers to people who know the truth and still reject it. However, those who know the truth and respond positively come to the light and are not afraid to come into the light (Jn.3:21).
Even though Jesus is the Son of God, yet in His ministry in flesh on earth, He submitted to the Father and to the election of God. Therefore, He said, “All that the Father gives me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.” (Jn.6:37). In fact, Jesus Himself is sent by the Father, i.e. in obedience to the sending. Therefore, He says again, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.” (Jn.6:44). These verses do not mean that the Father has chosen some to be saved and appointed some to be lost. They only recognize the Father as the Designer, the Elector, the Commissioner, and the Sender. He is the Chief Architect of our salvation. Thus, while people are saved by their faith-response to Jesus, it is the Father who has the sole authority to give these to Jesus because it is the Father who primarily teaches them (Jn.6:45-48), and anyone who accepts the Father will certainly accept Christ (Jn.8:42).
“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand....” (John 10:28-29) does not mean that a person himself will not choose to drift from and neglect this great salvation (Heb.2:1-2). Jesus meant to say that whoever commits himself to Him is protected by Him and no one can snatch anyone who commits to Christ from His hand. This does not rule out the possibility of the sheep exercising their freewill to depart from Christ, in which case they will no longer can be identified as belonging to the flock. John 10 asserts the omnipotent power of Jesus Christ. The Jews were desiring to kill Jesus the True Shepherd (which in human terms would mean the destruction and scattering of the sheep); however, Jesus asserts that no man can take His life; it is He who lays His life down and takes it back again (Jn.10:17,18). He has power over His life and power to give life to His sheep; He is a Shepherd who will not fail to keep His sheep. However, again, those who reject faith in Christ are not identified as sheep, because being sheep (a figure used) here is not an independent quality apart from Christ, it is the quality of relationship with Christ.
The salvation relationship with Christ is compared to the relationship between a vine and its branches (John 15). God removes every branch that does not bear Christ-like fruit (Jn.15:2). Anyone who chooses to not abide in Christ becomes as castaway (Jn.15:6).

pwood · Jul 20, 2015

From The perspective of an eternal being, everyone is already saved. Our lives are on a journey to God, whether a person likes it or not "at this time".

You do not have to "Get saved" as if you die "wondering" as you do then, you might find out you aren't and then it would be too late. This does not mean that you do not reap the consequenses of your thoughts and actions, we will all go through the refining fire. That can sound scary, but we all (even those who claim to already be good enough for heaven) will go through a refinement process.

Rather than Once Saved always saved as a condition of some sort of church Doctrine, Or that somehow if you screw up you are always on the wave of in out in out in out based upon your behavior or choices, think of it as On a journey to be perfected. With God we cannot lose, you are already saved, you just need to ask, what are you gonna do along the way?

You do not even have to believe that right now, because some prescribed church doctrine is not what any of us are bound too. You can either listen to all the doom sayers ready to tell you you had better straighten up or feel Gods Wrath, or you can live your life knowing he loves you now and always and that you are already eternally secure, even during your unbelief or most serious doubts. Rest assured God will not forsake us.

pwood · Jul 20, 2015

... duplicate post

JLB777 · Jul 20, 2015

Anyone who reads and understands what they read in the scripture can easily see that there is no such thing as OSAS.

19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 2 Peter 2:19-21

For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

JLB

xxwunderkindxx · Jul 20, 2015

What about Hebrews 10:26-31
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay." And again, "The Lord will judge his people." It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

If you believe Paul wrote Hebrews, notice how he includes himself in the warning " if "we" go on sinning"

Hebrews 6:4-6New International Version (NIV)
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Also Peter speaks of the dog that returns to it's vomit. It would have been better for that person to not have known the way than to forsake the holy commandment given to him. You also have passages which talk about how people in the church where trying to bring in a false doctrine of grace as a license to sin. I've been struggling with these passages for the past 3 months. Anybody who is in sin and knows it, REPENT, and ask God Jehovah to forgive, make your paths strait, and keep you in His hand. It's not worth the terror of believing you lost your salvation. True saving faith as opposed to intellectual faith, is going to make you want to walk in obedience. Also, the scripture where Paul warns believers to work out their salvation in trembling and fear, he talks about the branches being removed from the vine for not producing fruit. I pray every day it's not too late to repent for myself. Don't chance sin, sin is nothing more than an illusion. NOTHING in this life matters but a relationship with God through Christ!

Billygoat · Jul 20, 2015

OSAS is biblical. Read John 3:16
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His [a]only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Whoever believes/trusts Christ, has eternal life. If we can lose eternal life, it was never eternal t begin with.

DukeJohn · Jul 20, 2015

It is Fact, because if you would turn away from God and reject him, You never knew him. the Bible is not saying you can lose your salvation, because if you abandoned God, you were never saved to begin with.

jimbohank · Jul 20, 2015

I believe it depends on one's heart. If a person's heart is sincere and pure in repentance then that person will obviously and truly want to change their ways. It doesn't mean they won't fall again in their walk and yes in that sense we are covered. But what of those who turn and hate Him and live against Him or they decide that God does not exist? Would that be considered blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? One would think that they were never actually saved in the first place but gave it lip service for whatever reason. Once we truly become born again, we die to ourselves and live in Christ and therefore are transformed through Him and by Him. If we lay it all down for Him, then He will change our heart. We need to remember, though, this is between a person's heart and God and we are called to minister and witness, not condemn. God will handle the heart how He sees fit when He sees fit.

gigman7 · Jul 20, 2015

Anytime anyone asks this question or says that you can lose your salvation, I ask them what did you do to earn your salvation? Of coarse any true Christian will say they did nothing to earn it. So, I ask, "Then how can you do anything to lose it?"

If we could lose our salvation, we would all go to hell since we sin almost every moment of every day. And that's assuming that you believe that all sins are the same, which I believe they are.

gigman7 · Jul 20, 2015

That is 100% correct.

DeepWater · Jul 20, 2015

Can you be "unborn again"?

Also, on the day you were saved, did God know everything you would not do right in the future, every sin you would commit later, and all the days you were not showing your "faith by your works" after you were saved THAT DAY?
Did God not know all about your future GOOD WORKS and future BAD BEHAVIOR the day he saved you?
Did he save you >anyway<, KNOWING you, knowing what you would not do, as well as what you would do, later?
Yet he saved you anyway.........knowing....

Study all that for a while.

Once Saved Always Saved: Fact or Fiction?

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