What happened to the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

[Lulav]

I was thinking about this a couple of days ago and some other topics brought it back up to mind.

We know that G-d sealed off the Tree of Life to keep fallen man from finding it and living forever, but what about the other tree? I have always loved trees so of course reading about different trees in the bible is of interest to me. I've studied the different usage of the tree in all its states of PaRDes, but of course can not say I've even uncovered the tip of the iceberg, but it got me to thinking if the Tree of Life is the law and order of G-d what exactly was the one of the Knowledge?

Knowledge -yada, to know.

From studying other religions, ancient and those practiced today I see one common denominator throughout, and that is mind alteration.

This makes me think that the TotKoG&E was of a psychotropic nature, I don't see how it could be of anything else.

Now the question is, does it still exist on the earth today or do we only have 'tamer' versions of it but still capable of making that connection?

And why didn't G-d destroy that tree?

 

[pinacled]

I was thinking about this a couple of days ago and some other topics brought it back up to mind.

We know that G-d sealed off the Tree of Life to keep fallen man from finding it and living forever, but what about the other tree? I have always loved trees so of course reading about different trees in the bible is of interest to me. I've studied the different usage of the tree in all its states of PaRDes, but of course can not say I've even uncovered the tip of the iceberg, but it got me to thinking if the Tree of Life is the law and order of G-d what exactly was the one of the Knowledge?

Knowledge -yada, to know.

From studying other religions, ancient and those practiced today I see one common denominator throughout, and that is mind alteration.

This makes me think that the TotKoG&E was of a psychotropic nature, I don't see how it could be of anything else.

Now the question is, does it still exist on the earth today or do we only have 'tamer' versions of it but still capable of making that connection?

And why didn't G-d destroy that tree?

A long time ago I once heard this term. Tree of knowledge.
To say knowledge alone, where is this in scripture?
Where did this come from? I can only assume it is shorthand.
I know the scripture speaks of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

I thought Yeshua/Jesus was the tree of Life.
5Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?" 6Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. 7"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."…

Looking at the Tent of meeting this is awesome.

 

[Norbert L]

Those two trees are still around today, everyday for everyone's consuming. We today also have this choice, whether we choose to eat of the tree of life or the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Here's the thing... Some Spanish explorer tried to find a tree of eternal youth/life and absolutely came up empty handed, so we know it isn't some earthly organism of psychotropic nature that people should be looking for.

 

[Lulav]

A long time ago I once heard this term. Tree of knowledge.
To say knowledge alone, where is this in scripture?
Where did this come from? I can only assume it is shorthand.
I know the scripture speaks of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

I thought Yeshua/Jesus was the tree of Life.
5Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?" 6Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. 7"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."…

Looking at the Tent of meeting this is awesome.

Goodness, yes it was, I already posted the full name but was trying to draw attention to the knowledge part. This is why ancient religions came into being, this also goes back to the tower of Babel and forward to people today like Shirley McClain who not that long ago was into out of body experiences and wrote a book y'all may remember, 'Out on a Limb',

It seems to me that people think these things are innocent but they are not. Just recently the 81 year old announced that she believed that six million Jews and millions of others systematically murdered in Hitler’s death camps in the 1940s were ‘balancing their karma’ for crimes committed in past lives.

 

[Lulav]

Those two trees are still around today, everyday for everyone's consuming. We today also have this choice, whether we choose to eat of the tree of life or the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Here's the thing... Some Spanish explorer tried to find a tree of eternal youth/life and absolutely came up empty handed, so we know it isn't some earthly organism of psychotropic nature that people should be looking for.

How do you believe that?

So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

I think you got mixed up the psychotropic 'tree' was the one called the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil not the tree of Life.

 

[visionary]

Since man has not been barred from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, does that mean we are still eating the fruit of it... thus getting both sides of information... rather than only the good side?

 

[pinacled]

Goodness, yes it was, I already posted the full name but was trying to draw attention to the knowledge part. This is why ancient religions came into being, this also goes back to the tower of Babel and forward to people today like Shirley McClain who not that long ago was into out of body experiences and wrote a book y'all may remember, 'Out on a Limb',

It seems to me that people think these things are innocent but they are not. Just recently the 81 year old announced that she believed that six million Jews and millions of others systematically murdered in Hitler’s death camps in the 1940s were ‘balancing their karma’ for crimes committed in past lives.

Sorry if I misunderstood.
The knowledge part can lead to problems. Knowledge puffs up and all. Wisdom is something I consider more valuable.

 

[visionary]

Knowledge does puff up unless wisdom is applied.

 

[Norbert L]

How do you believe that?

So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

I think you got mixed up the psychotropic 'tree' was the one called the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil not the tree of Life.

Now that I think about it, what we both have mixed up was that Spanish explorer (Juan Ponce de León) was looking for the fountain of youth. It's a similar idea and most people do want to live forever. Some things can't be packaged in a pill to solve life threatening consequences.

So how do I believe that?

To paraphrase John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life, the tree/garden is no help. The words I have spoken to you are Spirit and life....

 

[Hoshiyya]

A tradition says the tree of knowledge of good and evil was a grapevine, which is very symbolically interesting.

To abridge the traditional and apochryphal material I have read, each type of plant had its own ruling angel, and the angel of the grapevine was the one we now call the Satan. Michael, incidentally, was the angel of the olivet.

The grapevine somehow survived the flood, the same way the olivet did (the same branch from which the bird retrieved the olive branch to show to Noah). So the genetic relatives of the tree of knowledge of good and evil still exist today.

This becomes symbolically interesting relative to Noah, who re-plants the vine after the flood, and of course even more symbolically interesting relative to Yeshua using wine (from the grapevine) as his symbol of salvation. Hence the grapevine in a sense is the cause of the fall of man, and also his way back to God.

 

[Josephus]

The two trees are the same. They both are the Torah. But the fruit is vastly different. One tree has fruit that has seed in it, the other tree has fruit that has no seed in it. Adam and Chava (and us their children) are only permitted to eat the fruit of trees that has seed in it.

Why?

Because seed (zara) relates to the Messiah who is known as the seed (zarah) of the woman.

Therefore, studying Torah for knowledge sake alone, that is, without the purpose of seeing Messiah, is what the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is. After all, that is what the Torah is, without Messiah - it's simply knowledge of good and evil. But the study of Torah for more than just the knowledge of good and evil, but rather with the purpose to see Messiah, is life. To desire wisdom for wisdom sake, is to consume from the Torah without ultimately desiring or even looking for Messiah, which is what Chava fell for, believing the lie that she could become like G-d knowing good and evil, not needing Messiah.

The Tree of Life remained on after the Flood, and a branch from it is found in the narrative as early as Moses's staff which was Aaron's rod, which had the bronze serpent affixed to its top, which was planted into the ground during King David's departure from Jerusalem when he fled from his son Absalom, which grew into a tree on the Mt. of Olives, from which King Hezekiah ground the serpent into pieces, which most likely was the tree that Messiah himself was hung from facing the entrance to the Golden Gate right into the Holy Place where a witness could concurrently see the curtain torn during the earthquake that occurred during his death.

The tree is not found any longer in history after this except in the New Jerusalem.

In my study, I believe the fruit of the Tree of Life was an almond or almond-like fruit.
The fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was a pomegranate or pomegranate-like fruit - but one designed to not have any seed in it ever.

As I said above, I believe they are both the same tree that were planted by Messiah as two trees, but different fruit, to serve as a means to test Adam and therefore elevate him into the World to Come - the Sabbath rest that Genesis records only G-d entered into that week.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Thanks for posting !
Certainly very interesting to read.

I see your reference to almonds and pomegranates relates to the staff of Aaron and the bells of the high priest.

So correct me if I am misunderstanding of your view: you believe there was a physical tree, representing Torah, that bore almonds and pomegranates (or fruits resembling almonds and pomegranates).

 

[Hoshiyya]

I heard another tradition or story that the two trees were identical, but in opposite ends of the garden. I recall another tradition that there was one single bifurcated tree, which reminds me of what you shared.

 

[Josephus]

Thanks for posting !
Certainly very interesting to read.

I see your reference to almonds and pomegranates relates to the staff of Aaron and the bells of the high priest.

So correct me if I am misunderstanding of your view: you believe there was a physical tree, representing Torah, that bore almonds and pomegranates (or fruits resembling almonds and pomegranates).

Correct. Two physical trees with different fruits. Each tree representing Torah like the Tabernacle on Earth represents the Tabernacle in Heaven, and that interacting with the earthy is literally interacting with the heavenly.

I also believe that Adam and Chava picked nearby fig leaves from the fig tree that was providing shade in the area by the tree of Life (often confused by some as proof of the type of tree the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was), in reference to their new found inadequacy and need to be covered by the prophecy of Messiah, and thus made them into physical coverings to cover their true physical nakedness (having lost the light of glory that clothed them prior to their sin). The nearby vines with grapes were meant to increase one's joy and thus be prepared for Torah study from the Tree of Life, but were never used until Noah planted the same, got drunk more on that than engaging in Torah study, and thus temporarily reversed the covering of Adam and Chava for himself by removing his garments. His sons see it, remembering the Torah command to not let a brother fall... but at this point I'm only preaching what most people know from here.

 

[Hoshiyya]

That's an interesting point about the covering of light. If you're up for it I'd like to continue talking on these things.

European art, and most people in general, assumes they were naked, and after eating, they felt the need to be clothed.
Some material says Adam was clothed like the high priest prior to the fall, which means he was clothed, became naked, and felt the need to make fig leaf clothing.

You're saying they were clothed in light.
If so do you see this light as being a clothing of sorts, or rather synonymous with their bodies ?
When I try to visualize what you describe I kind of think of a glowing Adam, (not entirely incomparable to the Silver Surfer) but maybe you meant he was wearing clothes, more like the high priest example I referened ?

I don't think we can really prove this or that tree was a Vitus or an Almond tree, but I do find the symbolical significance and implications of many of the traditions on this issue to be very fascinating. Again I personally tend toward the Vitus view, but I am fascinated by the material you've shared, Josephus.

This is genuinely interesting to me. I hope to hear more from you!

Shalom.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Good catch on Noah taking off the covering, reversing the pattern.

 

[Josephus]

The light of glory that clothed them was not clothing per se, but rather light emanating from their pure and holy souls. Even in Jewish tradition, their skin shone as a result (like Moses's face, and like the transfigured Messiah) the brightness of which completely hid their nakedness from even themsleves, an unglowing remnant of which can be seen in the shinyness of our fingernails which serve us as a reminder of our former glory, perhaps the 10 fingernails relate to the 10 Words, representing the Torah and the good deeds we can perform that elevate us that much more in this world, which is why we look at the light of Havdalah reflecting off our nails after the close of Shabbat to remind us of the light we lost, and will re-gain in the World to Come (technically the 8th Day, aka motzei Shabbat after the Millennium of Messiah) in the New Heaven and New Earth.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Personally, I have come to the conclusion that Genesis 3 is the most symbolically rich chapter, the well from which a million points, significances, imports etc. derive. There is so much derivate symbolism that wouldn't be meaningful, or as meaningful, without Genesis 3 and the whole garden saga. Personally, in my subjective opinion, I find Revelation of John to be the best written book, but Genesis 3 to be the best written chapter.

 

[Josephus]

I view the Torah as a self-contained, self-extracting, divinely inspired and engineered, multidimensional unified compact blueprint archive of the truth of G-d, the universe, and everything, given to us as a gift on this side of the World to Come, to bring us into the World to Come - literally the person of Messiah who himself is this very Word.

Viewed in that light, I find anything outside of Torah to be rather mundane and simplified of what is already found in the Torah. The challenge is often is to find what is not that obvious but certified by the Spirit of G-d in other scriptures, in the Torah. When that is done... oh my...the insights one gleans as if looking at the source code of life itself.

 

[Hoshiyya]

"the light we lost, and will re-gain in the World to Come (technically the 8th Day, aka motzei Shabbat after the Millennium of Messiah) in the New Heaven and New Earth."

From NT it appears those resurrected to rule in the millennial age will be immortal, having "incorruptible bodies". To me it follows that they, in the 7th day, the "sabbath-millennium", will have that light. Or at least, I always visualize the resurrected saints as basically glowing or being shiny, etc. comparable conceptually to the transfigured Yeshua (Matt. 17).