When was the Flood of Noah?

[Ben West]

No, that isn't how it works. YOU are the one making the ridiculous claim about a global flood. It is therefore incumbent upon YOU to provide evidence to support that claim. I don't have to drum up your evidence - YOU DO.

The Flood destroyed Adam's world, not the present Earth. The Ark arrived in Lake Van, Turkey 10-12k years ago and brought the FIRST Humans to our Planet.

The evidence is in the Blood of ALL Humans (descendants of Adam). Our DNA and ERVs are from the common ancestor of Apes...AND...we have the unique intelligence of Adam, which is ABOVE every other Creature and also like God's intelligence Gen 3:22 with the ability to know both good and evil, which NO animal does.

For 99% of the time since the sons of God (prehistoric people) diverged from Chimps, the sons of God roamed this Earth like ANY other animal. They never planted a crop, built a house, nor showed ANY other modern Human traits. SUDDENLY, exactly where and when the Ark arrived, FARMING began. Gen 9:20

In less than 1% of the time since prehistoric people diverged from Chimps, Humans (descendants of Adam) have gone to the Moon and back Safely. The all knowing scientists who have REJECTED God's Truth of the Flood CANNOT explain. Can you? IF prehistoric people were Human, then WHY did they wait Millions of years to show any evidence of it?

 

[Ben West]

Oh please. Even the Mormons and the Scientologists come up with better stories than yours. You have no evidence for a flood. Just more crazy claims.

Sure, but they CANNOT support their Religion with actual Scripture which agrees with Science and History. Amen? That's the way it is with Cults.

BTW, You have NEVER tried to explain the empirical historic evidence which records the arrival of the first FARMERS on this Planet. Is it because you cannot? Of course it is. God Bless you

 

[RickG]

No, they're not 'images.'

You can go there and stand atop them yourself (sans trespassing charges).

If, however, you're referring to 'images' as in your "Icons of Evolution," then that's different, and I'll address that by saying that calling them "irrelevant" is your prerogative.

Joe: Show me evidence of the Flood.
Tom: White Cliffs of Dover.

That's a pretty good clue that Tom doesn't know anything about oceanography or sedimentology. Do I need to bring my thread back about the thickness of sediments left by said flood?

 

[PeterDona]

He said some 12,000 years ago, much of the world was covered in ice.

I believe strongly that the quoted ice age is directly related to the flood. I mean, the worldwide flood of Noah.

I don't think your chronologies agree. For example"

"world started" 4004 b.c. = 6004 + 15 (2015) or 6019 years before present.
"black sea flood" 5000 b.c. = 7000 + 15 (2015) or 7015 years before present.

So the flood was 2000 years before the earth was made?

Aside from that, yes, the Ballard study is correct and even published in the peer review literature, of which there are many many studies providing similar information. The final outbreak of Lake Agassi-Ojibway, raising global sea levels some 2 meters, breaching the Bosporus Straight and increasing the Black Sea by more than a third did occur some 7000 + 14C years ago, or 8200 calendar years ago. This is a well known event documented in the scientific literature known as the 8200 Event. The significance of course is that the Mountains of Ararat border the Black Sea. Keep in min the the biblical description states "the mountains of Ararat, and not Mt. Ararat specific. Thus, a likely origin of both the Gilgamesh and Noachic flood stories.

Oh, I see. So that is why there is a belief of a local flood, so to say, when the atlantic ocean broke through Gibraltar and so on. I saw that on TV in my childhood. But back then I did not connect the story to anything biblical. Very interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Ojibway
You know, it is generally believed (among creationists) that the ice-age was connected to the flood, so that would put the flood at something like 8000-9000 years ago. If those datings are correct of course. The biblical record indicate some other ages, if we believe in Usshers calculation.
How did it happen, that after the flood, a global ice-age came about? I have no clue, or, well, yah, maybe I do .... The greenhouse effect was probably not working since there was not a lot of CO2, and so the general climate was colder. Speculation, of course, but not very farfetched no?

 

[PeterDona]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outburst_flood

Found some info here. Several versions of floods different places in the world. Or should I say, these would be after flood events, when water drained into the mediterranean and black seas. Outburst floods. I only wonder, why the massive difference in dating, ranging from 5.3 million years ago to 7000 years ago. That is quite a difference. How did they date the events?

 

[KWCrazy]

There are plenty of places on this forum where none of us "flood deniers" are allowed to post.

This forum here is a public forum.

You are de-railing the OP, which is about the date of the flood. If you want to talk about why it never happened, open your own thread.

 

[RickG]

I believe strongly that the quoted ice age is directly related to the flood. I mean, the worldwide flood of Noah.

The termination of the Laurentide ice sheet would have caused a number of massive sea level rises over several thousand years.

You know, it is generally believed (among creationists) that the ice-age was connected to the flood, so that would put the flood at something like 8000-9000 years ago. If those datings are correct of course. The biblical record indicate some other ages, if we believe in Usshers calculation.

How did it happen, that after the flood, a global ice-age came about? I have no clue, or, well, yah, maybe I do .... The greenhouse effect was probably not working since there was not a lot of CO2, and so the general climate was colder. Speculation, of course, but not very farfetched no?

That would not be correct on either account. No ice age after the flood and CO2 levels have been relatively constant for the past few million years, with the exception of the current increase since the beginning of the industrial revolution.

 

[PeterDona]

That would not be correct on either account. No ice age after the flood and CO2 levels have been relatively constant for the past few million years, with the exception of the current increase since the beginning of the industrial revolution.

And how do we know that? I mean, concerning the CO2 levels in the air?

Well, actually I would also wonder how would you know there was no ice age after the flood, now that a flood is not even in the working hypothesis of secular scientists?

 

[RickG]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outburst_flood

Found some info here. Several versions of floods different places in the world. Or should I say, these would be after flood events, when water drained into the mediterranean and black seas. Outburst floods. I only wonder, why the massive difference in dating, ranging from 5.3 million years ago to 7000 years ago. That is quite a difference. How did they date the events?

Completely different events. The Mediterranean and Black Sea events are not related.

 

[RickG]

And how do we know that? I mean, concerning the CO2 levels in the air?

From the marine oxygen isotope (MOI) record and ice cores. It is well documented.

Well, actually I would also wonder how would you know there was no ice age after the flood, now that a flood is not even in the working hypothesis of secular scientists?

Well, I have done quite a bit of research concerning the ice ages. The topic of my Master thesis (1977) was specifically on the occurrence and causes of continental glaciation (ice ages).

 

[In situ]

And please, if you want to comment that there was no flood, just dont comment in this thread.

If you do not want such comments I suggest you post in one of the closed forums, restricted for people with only certain beliefs - belief contrary to what science tells us about reality. Because this is not the forum for one way, single point of view, apologetic rhetoric about YEC's denial and delusional beliefs about the age of the Earth and it geological history when all branches of natural science diverges on the same conclusion that 1) there exists no evidence for a global flood - whatsoever - and 2) the Earth is a as matter of well established facts several billion years old.

 

[In situ]

[God] swept some things up into a neat pile

And in the process God not only managed to sort it in a progression from simpler forms to more complex forms, but also made it look like evolution from one form to another have occurred. How peculiar isn't that?

 

[In situ]

You are de-railing the OP, which is about the date of the flood. If you want to talk about why it never happened, open your own thread.

If no comments contrary to ideas which have no relation to reality but based on imaginary fantasies supported by delusion and denial of actual facts and evidence are wished then such discussions is better held in a closed forum rather than a forum supposed to discuss science. Criticism of such opinions and ideas in this forum is in no way a "derail" but only an unreasonable demand from the OP - a demand which is not in accordance with the intention of this forum.

 

[Ben West]

I believe strongly that the quoted ice age is directly related to the flood. I mean, the worldwide flood of Noah.

Oh, I see. So that is why there is a belief of a local flood, so to say, when the atlantic ocean broke through Gibraltar and so on. I saw that on TV in my childhood. But back then I did not connect the story to anything biblical. Very interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Ojibway
You know, it is generally believed (among creationists) that the ice-age was connected to the flood, so that would put the flood at something like 8000-9000 years ago. If those datings are correct of course. The biblical record indicate some other ages, if we believe in Usshers calculation.
How did it happen, that after the flood, a global ice-age came about? I have no clue, or, well, yah, maybe I do .... The greenhouse effect was probably not working since there was not a lot of CO2, and so the general climate was colder. Speculation, of course, but not very farfetched no?

The problem is that our Earth has NEVER had a Global Flood. It was Adam's world/firmament which sank in the mountains of Ararat some 10-12k years ago. This released the Ark into Lake Van, Turkey and Human civilization can be traced to the arrival of the first Humans (descendants of Adam) to step foot on Planet Earth.

BTW, Our Earth can NEVER be "clean dissolved" in water as Adam's Earth was, according to Isa 24:19. It's because our Earth is a Rock with a Molten center and it's covered with water but it doesn't clean dissolve. Does it? Adam's Earth is gone and soon the present Earth will be gone too. ll Peter 3:10 Amen? God Bless you

 

[PeterDona]

From the marine oxygen isotope (MOI) record and ice cores. It is well documented.

Marine oxygen isotope record .... oh oh, another technicality that only specialists can decode
Paleoclimatology, the oxygen balance
But nevertheless, I am not convinced that ice cores, from an ice age developing _after_ a flood would show very clearly the levels of CO2, except maybe for the bottom of the ice layer. Where would such a layer be present, a layer that has been undisturbed since the flood? Greenland? Antarctica?

Well, I have done quite a bit of research concerning the ice ages. The topic of my Master thesis (1977) was specifically on the occurrence and causes of continental glaciation (ice ages).

Nice to have a qualified person in the debate, as always.[/URL]

 

[PeterDona]

The problem is that our Earth has NEVER had a Global Flood. It was Adam's world/firmament which sank in the mountains of Ararat some 10-12k years ago. This released the Ark into Lake Van, Turkey and Human civilization can be traced to the arrival of the first Humans (descendants of Adam) to step foot on Planet Earth.

BTW, Our Earth can NEVER be "clean dissolved" in water as Adam's Earth was, according to Isa 24:19. It's because our Earth is a Rock with a Molten center and it's covered with water but it doesn't clean dissolve. Does it? Adam's Earth is gone and soon the present Earth will be gone too. ll Peter 3:10 Amen? God Bless you

Yah, well I agree on your overall expectation, and certainly it is a bit of academic time-waste (but pleasant) to discuss the previous flood. But generally I like these debates, because as a physics teacher they can give me ideas, if I can put up some special studies for my students, but it has to be simple, and there has to be some "meat" in it, for those are grade 7-8'ers.

I do not expect that Noahs flood was only local. Humanity existed at least 1500 years before the flood, and in that time you can spread over a lot of the earth, certainly more than just the black sea or the mediterranean sea. So I would still say, Noahs flood must be worldwide. I believe it is also stated like that in the Bible.

 

[Ben West]

Yah, well I agree on your overall expectation, and certainly it is a bit of academic time-waste (but pleasant) to discuss the previous flood. But generally I like these debates, because as a physics teacher they can give me ideas, if I can put up some special studies for my students, but it has to be simple, and there has to be some "meat" in it, for those are grade 7-8'ers.

I do not expect that Noahs flood was only local. Humanity existed at least 1500 years before the flood, and in that time you can spread over a lot of the earth, certainly more than just the black sea or the mediterranean sea. So I would still say, Noahs flood must be worldwide. I believe it is also stated like that in the Bible.

Amen, but it was worldwide to Adam's small world. Most people have no idea that Adam's world was totally different from the present world. The highest point on Adam's Earth was covered when the Flood reached only 15 cubits (22.5 feet) deep. Gen 7:20 All the water on Adam's Earth gathered in the Garden of Eden and flowed out as One river and split into four other Rivers. Gen 2:10 In comparison our Earth has THOUSANDS of Rivers and they don't flow from the same source. That's because such a water distribution system as described, can provide water only for a Flat Earth.

The Scoffers/Unbelievers of the last days will be "willingly ignorant" that Adam's world, the Kosmos that "THEN WAS", was totally destroyed in the Flood and that the present Earth, the heavens and Earth "WHICH ARE NOW" will be burned. 2Pe 3:3-7 Are you a Scoffer of the last days? God Bless you

 

[RickG]

Marine oxygen isotope record .... oh oh, another technicality that only specialists can decode
Paleoclimatology, the oxygen balance

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Paleoclimatology_OxygenBalance/
Well, you wouldn't go to an auto mechanic for a medical problem would you?

But nevertheless, I am not convinced that ice cores, from an ice age developing _after_ a flood would show very clearly the levels of CO2, except maybe for the bottom of the ice layer. Where would such a layer be present, a layer that has been undisturbed since the flood? Greenland? Antarctica?

Ice cores are an excellent source for studying past climates and components in the atmosphere. The Greenland ice sheet goes back undisturbed about 100,000 years and the Antarctic ice sheet some 800,000 years. Currently we are in an interglacial period that begin around 10,000 to 11,000 years ago.

Nice to have a qualified person in the debate, as always.

My earth science degree covered 3 main areas, oceanography, geology, and climatology. My area of concentration was Paleoclimatology.

 

[SepiaAndDust]

Noah's flood happened about 6200 years before Christ, when the Storegga Slide washed the original inhabitants of what would become the British Isles to the areas now known as Turkey and Israel. It was a long wash, but a few must've made it.

 

[Atheos canadensis]

Amen, but it was worldwide to Adam's small world. Most people have no idea that Adam's world was totally different from the present world. The highest point on Adam's Earth was covered when the Flood reached only 15 cubits (22.5 feet) deep. Gen 7:20 All the water on Adam's Earth gathered in the Garden of Eden and flowed out as One river and split into four other Rivers. Gen 2:10 In comparison our Earth has THOUSANDS of Rivers and they don't flow from the same source. That's because such a water distribution system as described, can provide water only for a Flat Earth.

The Scoffers/Unbelievers of the last days will be "willingly ignorant" that Adam's world, the Kosmos that "THEN WAS", was totally destroyed in the Flood and that the present Earth, the heavens and Earth "WHICH ARE NOW" will be burned. 2Pe 3:3-7 Are you a Scoffer of the last days? God Bless you

Why did you create a new account, Aman777?