• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

"The least of these..."

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,978
8,072
✟542,711.44
Gender
Female
Faith
Messianic
Some of the least commandments... When believer is born again, things change... They may read...

Proverbs 7:10“And behold there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart.”

and quite naturally the way she dresses changes as she tries to live more "modestly"....

1 Timothy 2:9
“In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel,..”
 
Upvote 0

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,978
8,072
✟542,711.44
Gender
Female
Faith
Messianic
The "least" of the commandments affect the little things of life.. like drinking...


Psalms 104:15And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man’s heart.”

Ecclesiates 10:19
“A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.”

Proverbs 20:1Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.”

To be deceived by wine or strong drink is explained in;

Proverbs 23:30
“They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 “Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.” 32At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.” 33Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.”

And now there are the "loosening and binding" of your behavior... limiting yourself to within the boundaries of scripture truths regarding all aspects of your life. God has a standard in everything and it is up to us to perceive it and live in to His glory.
 
Upvote 0

BelieveTheWord

Hebrew Roots Christian
Jan 16, 2015
358
131
✟16,202.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Marital Status
Married
This is good! So there's never a command to make an oath anywhere? If not, then it would totally make sense - Jesus is just saying don't make one to begin with, because then you're not bound to it. Guess if I was in a court of law, and they wanted me to make an oath, I would say I can't because of my religious convictions concerning what Jesus says about not making an oath. But I will say Yes, yes, I will tell the truth. : )
Not sure if you are just joking. "Swearing" to tell the truth in court doesn't seem to me to be an actual oath in the context of what Yeshua is referencing. We are commanded in the ten commandments not to give a false testimony anyway, so it shouldn't be an issue.
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Wilson

Active Member
Jul 10, 2015
79
24
35
✟24,194.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Halacha is the "loosing and binding" that Yeshua gave his disciples over. It is the interpretation of the laws. For example, believers now see Yeshua holding many of the positions found in Torah, like the sacrifice, the High Priest, etc. So now, there is no need for sacrifice, and we know that the Temple where the High Priest operates is in our mind, and the Heavenly Courts. Those are "new" perceptions from the standard Judaism of that day when Yeshua walked the earth.. It is the grace and truth found in Torah realized through Yeshua, our Messiah. It is forgiveness and mercy rather than sacrifice.
Wow, cool.
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Wilson

Active Member
Jul 10, 2015
79
24
35
✟24,194.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
"whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven"

If I were to draw a line. At one end of the spectrum are the greatest who have held themselves to the highest standard in regard to keeping of the commandments... on down to those who "at least" acknowledge the commandments are righteous and teaching so at the margin of those found in the kingdom of heaven... and then look at the other side of the heaven and hell line find. . "except your righteousness shall exceed
the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the
kingdom of heaven"
Then I must look somewhere else for my righteousness.... For it is not found in the law.. at least not enough to enter the kingdom of heaven.... and that is in Yeshua and what He has done in me, I could not have done. And that is why my faith is not legalistic, but fantastic.
Amen.
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Wilson

Active Member
Jul 10, 2015
79
24
35
✟24,194.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Not sure if you are just joking. "Swearing" to tell the truth in court doesn't seem to me to be an actual oath in the context of what Yeshua is referencing. We are commanded in the ten commandments not to give a false testimony anyway, so it shouldn't be an issue.
I wasn't joking... I think what Yeshua says applies - make no oath at all..
 
Upvote 0

Lulav

Y'shua is His Name
Aug 24, 2007
34,149
7,245
✟509,998.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
ANSWERS within your post.

Right!!


Do you mean a "midrash"? What is a midrash exactly? I've heard the term before..

Midrash, yes, 'drash' is an abbreviation. :) Sorry , I should have been more clear. It is part of 'PaRDeS', that is the anagram for the Jewish manner of exegesis. It stands for 'Parshot' the face value meaning, 'Remez', a deeper more alegorical meaning. 'Derash' or 'D'rash' for a comparative meaning and 'Sod', a secret, hidden meaning. :)

Got this. yes.


But... It seems it was actually a command in the old testament - 'You shall not make false vows, but shall fulfill your vows to the Lord.' I don't know the reference where Jesus is quoting from, however.. So, it still seems that Jesus directly changes the law when He then says, "But I say to you, make no oath at all." Do you see what I mean?

Yes, you can find what he was referring to here

For the "eye for an eye" I agree with you about eye for an eye not meaning you can just go get your own revenge - someone else commented that the old testament command was to the judges to do justice. The reference is below:

Lev 24:19 And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbor; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him:
Lev 24:20 breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be rendered unto him.

However, the above seems more than preventative - seems that justice was to be carried out by someone - eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, etc...

Yes, it was the judges who would make a decision and carry out the sentence, but with the help of the Holy Spirit you should not seek revenge, but turn the other cheek, this brings out holiness in regard to loving another with both parties. Let's just say instead of preventative that the L-RD was dealing at the time with a more primitive people than today. Remember the second greatest commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself and doing that really isn't taking revenge is it? That is why Jesus gave a deeper look at the commandment. It is better to show mercy. It was probably hoped that if the verdict was guilty that it was not a forced punishment. If the person who had, say lost an eye were to show love instead of revenge he would then ask that the judges not have the sentence carried out.
Do you know the story of King Solomon and the two woman and one baby? He had to 'force' mercy out by his degree, but it was better than harming that baby, this I believe is what G-d was hoping would happen.



Thank you so much! I appreciate that. Yes, I seek to walk the narrow road - Torah-observant, for the laws that do apply to me directly. Thank you, and blessings to you as well.

Greg
It shows, and keep up the good work!

I hope my answers help!
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Wilson

Active Member
Jul 10, 2015
79
24
35
✟24,194.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Your quote: "Midrash, yes, 'drash' is an abbreviation. :) Sorry , I should have been more clear. It is part of 'PaRDeS', that is the anagram for the Jewish manner of exegesis. It stands for 'Parshot' the face value meaning, 'Remez', a deeper more alegorical meaning. 'Derash' or 'D'rash' for a comparative meaning and 'Sod', a secret, hidden meaning. :)"

Sounds pretty neat. What do you mean by comparative meaning?

The oaths thing I think has become clear in that it says "IF" you make a vow. Jesus jsut advised to not make one to begin with! Maybe because of sinful nature, it was natural up to that point to really want to prove you were going to follow through by making a vow. But Jesus I think just wants the power of your honest yes to stand.

Your quote: "Yes, it was the judges who would make a decision and carry out the sentence, but with the help of the Holy Spirit you should not seek revenge, but turn the other cheek, this brings out holiness in regard to loving another with both parties. Let's just say instead of preventative that the L-RD was dealing at the time with a more primitive people than today. Remember the second greatest commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself and doing that really isn't taking revenge is it? That is why Jesus gave a deeper look at the commandment. It is better to show mercy. It was probably hoped that if the verdict was guilty that it was not a forced punishment. If the person who had, say lost an eye were to show love instead of revenge he would then ask that the judges not have the sentence carried out.
Do you know the story of King Solomon and the two woman and one baby? He had to 'force' mercy out by his degree, but it was better than harming that baby, this I believe is what G-d was hoping would happen."

Cool. Yes, amen about not seeking revenge. Quite beautiful concept. I do know that story about King Solomon! So the true mother cries out to just give the baby to the other woman instead of killing it - that was the forced mercy that came out of her? I guess instead, there was no way of deciding whose baby it really was. So the only other option was to divide it between the two, which would be terrible.

Thank you for your help. I guess I would be considered Messianic in that I want to keep Torah and Sabbath? What exactly is the description of a Messianic believer? Thank you.

Greg
 
Upvote 0

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,978
8,072
✟542,711.44
Gender
Female
Faith
Messianic
I wasn't joking... I think what Yeshua says applies - make no oath at all..
The act of speaking an oath or a vow aloud gives it binding force in traditional Jewish law.

Num 30:3 When a man voweth a vow unto the Lord, or sweareth an oath to bind his soul with a bond, he shall not break his word; he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth

In the traditional understanding of this verse, the reference is to a vow or an oath to refrain from some enjoyment as a sacrifice to God. I know this conversation is about “oath” and referring to oaths taken in a court of law. But both vows and oaths in this Numbers 30:3 denote only personal declarations of a religious nature which I believe Yeshua is referring to.
 
Upvote 0

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,978
8,072
✟542,711.44
Gender
Female
Faith
Messianic
The idea behind it all is that the man has given to God his word, which he must not break. It is only a verbal declaration that constitutes a vow. A vow “taken in the heart,” as the Rabbis call it, a mental resolve, has no binding force.
 
Upvote 0

Truthfrees

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 20, 2015
13,793
2,912
✟299,688.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
American Standard Version:
Lev 24:19 And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbor; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him:
Lev 24:20 breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be rendered unto him.

So how do we know this is written to the judges? Thank you.
:wave: Court was set up at the same time as the law was given. Exodus 18, Numbers 11.

The people came before Moses from sunrise to sunset.

Jethro told Moses to appoint others to the same job and Moses act only as the higher court for more difficult cases.

IOW, court has been the place to take all these matters since the day the law was first given.
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Wilson

Active Member
Jul 10, 2015
79
24
35
✟24,194.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The act of speaking an oath or a vow aloud gives it binding force in traditional Jewish law.

Num 30:3 When a man voweth a vow unto the Lord, or sweareth an oath to bind his soul with a bond, he shall not break his word; he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth

In the traditional understanding of this verse, the reference is to a vow or an oath to refrain from some enjoyment as a sacrifice to God. I know this conversation is about “oath” and referring to oaths taken in a court of law. But both vows and oaths in this Numbers 30:3 denote only personal declarations of a religious nature which I believe Yeshua is referring to.
Hmmm... that's a thought. I think it could just be vows in general though..
 
Upvote 0

Lulav

Y'shua is His Name
Aug 24, 2007
34,149
7,245
✟509,998.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
When you compare the laws “Thou shalt not commit adultery” with “paying tithes
Yeshua taught us that the law of “not committing adultery” is weightier than the law
of tithing spices but he said the law of tithing spices (Isaiah 28:25; Deut. 14:22)to
the Levites still had to be kept.

Matthew 23:23 “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin (spices) and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done,and not to leave the other undone.”

You find the weightiest laws are written in stone.
I can't agree with your last sentence. What is written in stone are the main categories. I don't think that verse is punctuated correctly either.

I think it should read. Matthew 23:23 “Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin (spices) and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: judgment, mercy, and faith; these ought ye to have done,and not to leave the other undone.”

What he is calling the weightier matters of the law are judgment, mercy and faith.

I don't think Greg has seen my chart so I am posting it on here.
LAW OF LOVE HANGER.JPG
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truthfrees
Upvote 0

Truthfrees

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 20, 2015
13,793
2,912
✟299,688.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Thanks, feel free to copy and use, it is my own work so no copyright involved, I think it helps to explain what Yeshua was saying.
It sure does. A picture's worth a thousand words. Awesome! :oldthumbsup:

Could you explain why you put 5 under loving God and loving your neighbor? :wave:
 
Upvote 0

Lulav

Y'shua is His Name
Aug 24, 2007
34,149
7,245
✟509,998.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
It sure does. A picture's worth a thousand words. Awesome! :oldthumbsup:

Could you explain why you put 5 under loving God and loving your neighbor? :wave:


Sure, (good eye!) :) I don't know where I came across this concept, but firstly it is because the majority put number 5 with 6,7,8,9 and 10 so I included it in the chart for all to understand.

Some time ago I was reading something, (I am a voracious reader and don't always recall where I read something) that G-d gives us our parents who are in charge of our well being. They provide things for us, they protect us, watch over us, feed and cloth us, nurture us to become good human beings. Of course this is not always the case, but it is the perfect model. Now because of this we are to honor them, respect them because they gave us life and seek to make a way for us to have life.

G-d is the same way. That is why he is called 'Our Father' or 'Our Heavenly Father'. If we don't know how to honor our own parents on earth, we will fall way short in honoring the creator who gave us life and sustains it. G-d gives us our parents, good or bad, but we still must honor them, even when we don't understand their reasoning,or their purpose for doing things, this is the same as our Heavenly Father, so the commandment bridges both Greatest commandments, joining the two into one.
 
Upvote 0

Lulav

Y'shua is His Name
Aug 24, 2007
34,149
7,245
✟509,998.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
Answers within post
Your quote: "Midrash, yes, 'drash' is an abbreviation. :) Sorry , I should have been more clear. It is part of 'PaRDeS', that is the anagram for the Jewish manner of exegesis. It stands for 'Parshot' the face value meaning, 'Remez', a deeper more alegorical meaning. 'Derash' or 'D'rash' for a comparative meaning and 'Sod', a secret, hidden meaning. :)"

Sounds pretty neat. What do you mean by comparative meaning?

Parables are an example. You really need to study on what PaRDes is to understand his teachings. He was speaking mainly to the lay peoples and teaching them beyond the simple meaning of the commandment not to kill. Explaining it to its full meaning. In other words 'do not kill' is a heading. See my chart. But what all falls under that? It falls under the two greatest commandments, the main one to love your neighbor. But also you need to honor your heavenly father by respecting his creation of another human being. You do that by not just not taking their life, but also by not holding a grudge, by not being unrightfully angry, by not dissing them in anyway. So in saying it was equal to murder he means that it falls under that category in the ten commandments.

The oaths thing I think has become clear in that it says "IF" you make a vow. Jesus jsut advised to not make one to begin with! Maybe because of sinful nature, it was natural up to that point to really want to prove you were going to follow through by making a vow. But Jesus I think just wants the power of your honest yes to stand.

Yes, it is not good to make an oath because we are human and do fall. Basically I believe he was saying 'be a man of your word'. I'm sure you have been around people who automatically say things like 'i swear to god!' so causally without even thinking. If they would abide by the standard, Yes or No, they would not be held accountable at the judgement.

Your quote: "Yes, it was the judges who would make a decision and carry out the sentence, but with the help of the Holy Spirit you should not seek revenge, but turn the other cheek, this brings out holiness in regard to loving another with both parties. Let's just say instead of preventative that the L-RD was dealing at the time with a more primitive people than today. Remember the second greatest commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself and doing that really isn't taking revenge is it? That is why Jesus gave a deeper look at the commandment. It is better to show mercy. It was probably hoped that if the verdict was guilty that it was not a forced punishment. If the person who had, say lost an eye were to show love instead of revenge he would then ask that the judges not have the sentence carried out.
Do you know the story of King Solomon and the two woman and one baby? He had to 'force' mercy out by his degree, but it was better than harming that baby, this I believe is what G-d was hoping would happen."

Cool. Yes, amen about not seeking revenge. Quite beautiful concept. I do know that story about King Solomon! So the true mother cries out to just give the baby to the other woman instead of killing it - that was the forced mercy that came out of her? I guess instead, there was no way of deciding whose baby it really was. So the only other option was to divide it between the two, which would be terrible.

Yes, that was it. I was not 'forced' per se, but mercy is what she showed when Solomon announced his decision, knowing in his wisdom that the true mother would not allow her child to be killed, but would rather sacrifice by giving it to another mother who had lost her child.

Thank you for your help. I guess I would be considered Messianic in that I want to keep Torah and Sabbath? What exactly is the description of a Messianic believer? Thank you.

Greg
You're welcome! Yes, I think so, but not a 'mainstream' one, the majority are more in line with Christian beliefs of done away Torah ,both Jews and Gentiles, but still practice more in line with Hebrew roots. But for this forum, yes you fit in quite well!
 
Upvote 0

Truthfrees

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 20, 2015
13,793
2,912
✟299,688.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Sure, (good eye!) :) I don't know where I came across this concept, but firstly it is because the majority put number 5 with 6,7,8,9 and 10 so I included it in the chart for all to understand.

Some time ago I was reading something, (I am a voracious reader and don't always recall where I read something) that G-d gives us our parents who are in charge of our well being. They provide things for us, they protect us, watch over us, feed and cloth us, nurture us to become good human beings. Of course this is not always the case, but it is the perfect model. Now because of this we are to honor them, respect them because they gave us life and seek to make a way for us to have life.

G-d is the same way. That is why he is called 'Our Father' or 'Our Heavenly Father'. If we don't know how to honor our own parents on earth, we will fall way short in honoring the creator who gave us life and sustains it. G-d gives us our parents, good or bad, but we still must honor them, even when we don't understand their reasoning,or their purpose for doing things, this is the same as our Heavenly Father, so the commandment bridges both Greatest commandments, joining the two into one.
Wow! Thanks for explaining. :wave:
 
Upvote 0

Elihoenai

Who has ceased to eat Manna?
Apr 9, 2015
428
79
London, England
✟49,200.00
Faith
Man is not able keep an oath or vow to Jehovah/Yahweh God that is why John was sent.

John is not able to remain forever true to the oath or vow to Jehovah/Yahweh that is why Yeshua was sent.



Genesis 26:26-29 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

26 And Abimelech hath gone unto him from Gerar, and Ahuzzath his friend, and Phichol head of his host;

27 and Isaac saith unto them, `Wherefore have ye come unto me, and ye have hated me, and ye send me away from you?'

28 And they say, `We have certainly seen that Jehovah hath been with thee, and we say, `Let there be, we pray thee, an oath between us, between us and thee, and let us make a covenant with thee;

29 do not evil with us, as we have not touched thee, and as we have only done good with thee, and send thee away in peace; thou [art] now blessed of Jehovah.'



John 8:18 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

18 I am [one] who is testifying of myself, and the Father who sent me doth testify of me.'



Matthew 5:36-37 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

36 nor by thy head mayest thou swear, because thou art not able one hair to make white or black;

37 but let your word be, Yes, Yes, No, No, and that which is more than these is of the evil.
 
Upvote 0