Ex-Con Hovind released from the pokey.

[MikeEnders]

What I am saying is that this man is being wrongfully dragged through the courts of the US by the IRS and results are that he has been brought to the limelight and saved many souls.

what limelight? the limelight that people are talking about him as a convict , tax evader? Limelight? Keep that limelight. How does that bring glory to God? Sheesh. Do what we all do - grumble about taxes. DO what our Lord did and comment on who takes taxes from whom but in the end do what Jesus did - Pay your taxes!!!! especially if you can.

His message, regarding creation

Sorry but that was tarnished long ago - and by fellow creationists who realized he used/uses some pretty bad arguments

I also believe that if you were to meet him and talk with him on his principals of creation and financial workings, you would find him a fine upstanding man.

Did you read my last post? where did I say otherwise? You seem to be under the impression that you can either think Hovind is completely in the right or completely in the wrong

 

[Armoured]

What I am saying is that this man is being wrongfully dragged through the courts of the US by the IRS and results are that he has been brought to the limelight and saved many souls.

His message, regarding creation, has not been tarnished. His financial dealings has been the target. His integrity, IMO is sound. There are many "honest" businesses in the US that function under the same laws as he does but they will never be touched as they have too much $$$ backing them.

I firmly believe that the government tried to discredit him due to the work he is doing for God and, as a result, he is actually doing more work for God.

I also believe that if you were to meet him and talk with him on his principals of creation and financial workings, you would find him a fine upstanding man.

He wasn't wrongfully dragged through anything. He wa convicted. By a jury. He received the same legal process that we believe is adequate to execute people after. He was guilty. Deal.

 

[RickG]

His message, regarding creation, has not been tarnished.

With respect to the description of science he has conveyed, it is atrocious. A difference of opinion is one thing, but to present the misrepresentations and false claims he has in his videos, despicable.

 

[AV1611VET]

A difference of opinion is one thing, but to present the misrepresentations and false claims he has in his videos, despicable.

It's like calling an Embedded Ager a YEC, isn't it?

 

[RickG]

It's like calling an Embedded Ager a YEC, isn't it?

A belief in a 6,000 year old earth is a YEC whether one believes the age of the earth is embedded or not. If you wish to claim you are not a YEC, that is your privilege, however, it does not negate the fact that your views are of YEC substance.

 

[VirOptimus]

It's like calling an Embedded Ager a YEC, isn't it?

Its not you who decide the definition of YEC, just as its not you who decide the definition of Homo Sapiens. And you are both.

 

[SkyWriting]

A belief in a 6,000 year old earth is a YEC whether one believes the age of the earth is embedded or not. If you wish to claim you are not a YEC, that is your privilege, however, it does not negate the fact that your views are of YEC substance.

You are free to believe that notion.

 

[SkyWriting]

Its not you who decide the definition of YEC

Of course it is.

 

[SkyWriting]

With respect to the description of science he has conveyed, it is atrocious. A difference of opinion is one thing, but to present the misrepresentations and false claims he has in his videos, despicable.

You shouldn't be watching videos. Is there one peer-reviewed video journal?
Nope. What is your beef? Video should be screened by you? You gettin kooky.

 

[Loudmouth]

We can not knock Kent, he saw a fool proof way to make money and he went for it and selling lies is not only allowed in the US it's positively encouraged, if you see a mug and take everything he has you get a 'well done' a pat on the back and a high five.

Kent surely has the right to free speech. What he doesn't have a right to do is violate the tax code. He thought he had a fool proof way to get away with breaking those laws, but he got caught. Although, his plan was quite naïve . . .

"I do not have or use a SS# ... Actually, no real person has a social security number. Notice on your SS card that your name is spelled with all capital letters. This designates the STRAW MAN business, trust or corporation not a person ..."--Kent Hovind
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind

Hovind actually thought that since your name was in all capital letters on your social security card that it didn't refer to the person whose name has normal capitalization. He is that crazy.

 

[Loudmouth]

Nope. What is your beef? Video should be screened by you? You gettin kooky.

Why not reference the papers where the science originally comes from?

 

[Loudmouth]

What I am saying is that this man is being wrongfully dragged through the courts of the US by the IRS and results are that he has been brought to the limelight and saved many souls.

Of the charges he was convicted on and served 10 years for, which were wrongful convictions? Are you saying that he really did pay payroll taxes? That he really did file personal tax forms? That he didn't make over 200 withdrawls just under $10k to avoid IRS reporting?

His message, regarding creation, has not been tarnished. His financial dealings has been the target. His integrity, IMO is sound.

Then start a thread on a specific scientific claim that Hovind makes, and we will see how much integrity he has in that field. If not, I can start some real howlers in your stead, such as the time he completely lied about two pieces from the same mammoth having very different carbon dates. His argument that planets should not rotate in opposite directions is another howler.

There are many "honest" businesses in the US that function under the same laws as he does but they will never be touched as they have too much $$$ backing them.

Which of these businesses do not file tax returns and get away with it?

I firmly believe that the government tried to discredit him due to the work he is doing for God and, as a result, he is actually doing more work for God.

The Discovery Institute has never been harassed by any government agency. Guess what? They file tax returns.

 

[Willtor]

We can not knock Kent, he saw a fool proof way to make money and he went for it and selling lies is not only allowed in the US it's positively encouraged, if you see a mug and take everything he has you get a 'well done' a pat on the back and a high five.

I can see that this is a misconception about what freedom of speech is. There's a nuance that makes this not quite right. Maybe the nuance isn't important to you, but what you're saying isn't correct:

Hovind is allowed to say things that aren't so. This is different from saying that he is encouraged to say things that aren't so. To take an extreme example, a Neo-Nazi group could publish and distribute racist literature, and the law grants them the freedom to do it. In many countries, this is illegal. Bear in mind, however, that it isn't permitted by law, here, for the reason that it isn't odious. On the contrary, you'll see local government officials speaking out against it when it happens in their states or towns. They don't restrict it, not because they don't hate it, but because they value the right of a person to speak his or her mind freely, even if they don't like what that person has to say.

The cost of this freedom is the proliferation of bad ideas. But, if it's any consolation, in an environment that permits that freedom, one is confident in one's liberty to combat the bad ideas with good ones.

 

[bhsmte]

Can you show me what he was convicted of? And, what it had to do with taxes? From what I see, the only charge that stuck was threatening the IRS.

It has been posted on this board numerous times.

Quick legal lesson for you:

Charges can only be dropped, BEFORE someone one is convicted, that is why they are CHARGES and not a conviction. Once you are convicted, it would take a successful appeal, to reverse the conviction.

 

[bhsmte]

What I am saying is that this man is being wrongfully dragged through the courts of the US by the IRS and results are that he has been brought to the limelight and saved many souls.

His message, regarding creation, has not been tarnished. His financial dealings has been the target. His integrity, IMO is sound. There are many "honest" businesses in the US that function under the same laws as he does but they will never be touched as they have too much $$$ backing them.

I firmly believe that the government tried to discredit him due to the work he is doing for God and, as a result, he is actually doing more work for God.

I also believe that if you were to meet him and talk with him on his principals of creation and financial workings, you would find him a fine upstanding man.

If this is the case, why wasn't his lawyers able to demonstrate this in court.

Do you realize, his lawyer didn't even put on a defense, he rested on the cross examination of the prosecutions case.

 

[RickG]

You shouldn't be watching videos. Is there one peer-reviewed video journal?
Nope. What is your beef? Video should be screened by you? You gettin kooky.

The videos are presented as factual science to the general public when if fact they are a gross misrepresentation of science. Do you approve of that?

 

[AV1611VET]

Its not you who decide the definition of YEC,

That's right.

.. just as its not you who decide the definition of Homo Sapiens.

That's right.

And you are both.

That's wrong.

 

[SkyWriting]

The videos are presented as factual science to the general public when if fact they are a gross misrepresentation of science. Do you approve of that?

You say many things I don't approve of. Should that affect what you publish? I think not.
I support you saying any fool thing you wish. Even in video form.

 

[RickG]

You say many things I don't approve of. Should that affect what you publish? I think not.
I support you saying any fool thing you wish. Even in video form.

What hovind states in his science videos are not opinions, they are deliberately misrepresented science. No ifs, and, or buts. There is difference between opinions and misleading the public through supposed educational videos.

 

[bhsmte]

What hovind states in his science videos are not opinions, they are deliberately misrepresented science. No ifs, and, or buts. There is difference between opinions and misleading the public through supposed educational videos.

He is catering to his crowd, who have a need to be misled.