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Why is Jesus the ????

Lulav

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Exactly where does it state that the complete Ten Commandments were explicitly stated to Adam and Eve?


God's laws have always been in existence, He has always had ways that are right in his eyes and wrong in his eyes.

Just because they weren't written down until Moses' time does not mean they were not in existence.

To say they were not is to ignore what is written in Genesis.

Cain and Able made sacrifices to the L-RD.
Enoch 'Walked with G-d' meaning he did what was right before the L-RDs eyes.
Abraham was given many commandments and instructions from the L-RD which he did.

None of these were written down, but that doesn't mean they weren't in existence nor couldn't be followed or broken.

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes And clever in their own sight!
 
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Lulav

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Interesting. That is a commandment that is certainly not in the Ten (nor in the other 603) so I suppose it must not apply to Israel.

Ah, yes it is included in the Torah.

The first mitzvah in the Torah is "to be fruitful and multiply." As the verse in Genesis1 states: "And G‑d said to them, 'Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth...'" After the Flood, G‑d repeated this commandment to Noah: "And G‑d blessed Noah and his sons, and He said to them2: 'Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth.'"3

This mitzvah is considered a "great mitzvah" and in some cases even overrides certain other laws.

One who intentionally does not fulfill this mitzvah is considered analogous to a murderer – for he, too, has depleted life – and is said to be minimizing the Divine presence in this world.8 From this we understand that one who does fulfill this mitzvah is increasing the Divine presence in this world.

The Basic Mitzvah
The minimum requirement of this mitzvah is to have a son and a daughter.9

But if possible one should try to have as many children as possible. In the words of Isaiah10: "He did not create [the world] for a waste, He formed it to be inhabited." From this verse we learn that gentiles too have a mitzvah to have children.11
 
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Lulav

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Turns out - the OT is "still the Word of God" and "Still scripture" according to NT writers.

But in Heb 7 and in Heb 10 the system of animal sacrifices are stated to have ended at the cross.

This means the moral law of God expressed within the 1100+ commands of the NT in addition to the OT all apply.

No wonder so much quoting of Lev 19:18 in the NT.
Beg to differ, Sacrifices continued until the Temple was destroyed. It was not abolished. The place where it was to occur disappeared and the people were kicked out of the land by the Romans after murdering in the thousands.

If sacrifices ended at the cross, how do you explain Paul in the temple in Acts?
 
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Lulav

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I simply can not fathom people here do not understand it is not the covenant issued at Mt Sinai written on our hearts as the prophets say.
Perhaps you might want to make us a list of the commandments written on your heart?
 
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bbbbbbb

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God's laws have always been in existence, He has always had ways that are right in his eyes and wrong in his eyes.

Just because they weren't written down until Moses' time does not mean they were not in existence.

To say they were not is to ignore what is written in Genesis.

Cain and Able made sacrifices to the L-RD.
Enoch 'Walked with G-d' meaning he did what was right before the L-RDs eyes.
Abraham was given many commandments and instructions from the L-RD which he did.

None of these were written down, but that doesn't mean they were in in existence nor couldn't be followed or broken.

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes And clever in their own sight!

Thanks for the answer. I expected as much, even though the question was addressed to Elder111.

Won't you be amazed when you stand before God and He holds you accountable for not obeying His commandments which He did not reveal to you, but intended to reveal two thousand years later?
 
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Lulav

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Where does the Scripture say Adam and Eve had the Ten Commandments? Moses says they did not. Deut 5:3
Yes, this is somewhat true, the covenant made at the mountain was different in that it involved a whole people who had been brought out of slavery. Abraham was not in slavery, nor Isacc, nor Jacob. When they went down to Egypt they lived in the best of land, Joseph was second in command of the whole land so the same couldn't have been made at that time.

G-ds ways he wanted his people to act were given, the index on stone, the rest of the book on parchment written down by Moses.

As I said before, G-ds laws pertaining to his creation have always existed but were not written down until Moses time. Doesn't mean they didn't exist.

Just like in the first century they thought there were only seven planets. Just because you can't see everything doesn't mean it isn't there, and that spills over to the existence of G-d just because you don't see him or understand everything about him does not make him not exist.
 
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Lulav

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Thanks for the answer. I expected as much, even though the question was addressed to Elder111.

Won't you be amazed when you stand before God and He holds you accountable for not obeying His commandments which He did not reveal to you, but intended to reveal two thousand years later?
Sorry you didn't appreciate my answer, but it still is correct. I am not Elder111, nor am I SDA.

I have no idea what you are trying to say after that? Are you saying that no one knew how to walk with G-d?

Funny, I guess you missed that part about Adam and Eve eating of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Do you really think G-d unrighteous to judge his people he has not forewarned?

Does he not plead with his people to make repentance time and again? I would have to say you really don't know the G-d you claim to love if you think that way about him.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Stumbling block, if one tries to come to Him by law, all showing that if one tries to come to Him by law, he will stumble, all showing that the road to the Lord, can't be law. Jesus, Peter and Paul all said the same thing.
Great question. I note a peculiar silence from the advocates of legalism here.
I would reckon the sabbatarian SDA and MJs will be tripping over each other to post in this thread....Be patient................

images
 
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Elder 111

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Exactly where does it state that the complete Ten Commandments were explicitly stated to Adam and Eve?
The same place where is says that God is the same yesterday today and forever. The same place where is says that Adam was created in the image of God. The same place where it says that God created the Sabbath, hollowed it and sanctified it in Genesis 2.
 
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bbbbbbb

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The same place where is says that God is the same yesterday today and forever. The same place where is says that Adam was created in the image of God. The same place where it says that God created the Sabbath, hollowed it and sanctified it in Genesis 2.

I have the feeling that you must have a different Bible than mine. I have looked long and hard to see where God said to Adam and Eve, "Hear, O Adam and Eve, the Lord your God is one God . . ." If you could give me chapter and verses where God explicitly stated the Ten Commandments to Adam and Eve I will be grateful.

Thank you.
 
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Frogster

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God made a mistake when He separated the Ten commandments from the other laws? The sacrifice of a lamb is the same as to not tell lies? The law of circumcision is equal to the law of worshiping God alone?
lol...but circumcision meant keep the whole law,gal 5;3 yet you choose not to keep feasts, while you keep food laws that are not in the 10, while you ignore feasts that come out of the same book that has the food laws..oh my!
 
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Frogster

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21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Doesn't read to me like Jesus was teaching the law.

bugkiller
you go dude!
 
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Frogster

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This of course would be after Adam sinned. For he was created in a "saved" condition. The same ten Commandments!
the law did
I have the feeling that you must have a different Bible than mine. I have looked long and hard to see where God said to Adam and Eve, "Hear, O Adam and Eve, the Lord your God is one God . . ." If you could give me chapter and verses where God explicitly stated the Ten Commandments to Adam and Eve I will be grateful.

Thank you.
yup, and he has been shown over and over, the law came at sinai, stephen, paul, moses, david, and hebrews all say sinai, but he ignores that.
 
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Frogster

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The same place where is says that God is the same yesterday today and forever. The same place where is says that Adam was created in the image of God. The same place where it says that God created the Sabbath, hollowed it and sanctified it in Genesis 2.
oh come on, God may be the same, but the cov changed. pleeeeeease....


Heb 8:9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers
on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt.
For they did not continue in my covenant,
and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord.
 
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Elder 111

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I have the feeling that you must have a different Bible than mine. I have looked long and hard to see where God said to Adam and Eve, "Hear, O Adam and Eve, the Lord your God is one God . . ." If you could give me chapter and verses where God explicitly stated the Ten Commandments to Adam and Eve I will be grateful.

Thank you.
Well there is none of that exact context. So I keep my view unless you are going to insist and prove that God allowed His creation to lie steal kill and commit adultery. That Joseph could have slept with his master's wife and God would not have objected. That God only made up His mind about the Ten commandments after Moses came on the scene, maybe it was Moses that called for those laws. That stealing was only a sin after Sinai.Let us hear you on this matter.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I have the feeling that you must have a different Bible than mine. I have looked long and hard to see where God said to Adam and Eve, "Hear, O Adam and Eve, the Lord your God is one God . . ."
If you could give me chapter and verses where God explicitly stated the Ten Commandments to Adam and Eve I will be grateful.

Thank you.
ROFL! Nice........
 
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Frogster

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Beg to differ, Sacrifices continued until the Temple was destroyed. It was not abolished. The place where it was to occur disappeared and the people were kicked out of the land by the Romans after murdering in the thousands.

If sacrifices ended at the cross, how do you explain Paul in the temple in Acts?
oh come on..Just read this on Paul and the temple. Did Paul go to temple for 17 years?! Nope!

Besides, they were being warned in hebrews as they hit the 40 year mark, it was coming to an end..Hint.."40 years"...cough cough..sound familiar like the wilderness cough cough.......;)



///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////



Pro law people love to shout out happily…


Paul went to the Temple and took the ritual!


Lol…they forget that he did not go to Jerusalem for 14 years as per Gal 2:1, which says “again”, presumably after the Peter visit of Gal 1:18, 3 years after Paul’s conversion, and it was for just 15 days, no temple time there, so really 17 years total, Acts 9 leaves no temple information either.


So no feasts, no cleansing, no practicing Judaism for 17 years.




Acts 21. Paul goes to Jerusalem with his heart wide open, even bringing money he collected from the Gentiles, to show good will and unity. Paul arrives in Jerusalem, only to hear from James that the thousands there, many law following believers, thought Paul taught apostasy in verse 21, the Greek for “forsake” Moses, same word used in Thessalonians about the “Antichrist”, serious accusation. Did Paul preach it was ok to commit adultery or steal? No. Did Paul preach apostasy? No. In Romans 3:8 Paul said they lied about his teaching making like Paul said “do evil, so good will come”. He said their condemnation will be deserved. This confirms that James knew what many thought, incorrectly of course, concerning what Paul taught. And Paul knew it too (Rom 3:8), hence answered sin questions are seen in Romans 6. Do we continue in sin Paul asked, then said no! James and Paul both knew what the masses thought.





James, understandably fearing the thousands said, "do what we tell you", to Paul. Did Paul have to? No, but the language sounds strong, James saying do what we tell you, not an order, but an emphatic emphasis, a tone, stress, a very concerned James, can not be denied in those words. So Paul, who said in 1 Corinthians 9, that he did certain things to further the gospel, become as a Jew or Gentile etc, along with 2 Corinthians 4, while saying he commended himself to others, he then commended himself to James in Acts 21. Keep in mind, after James wanted Paul to take the ritual, James reminded Paul how he helped Paul earlier at the council meeting in Acts 15. So now it was Paul’s turn to reciprocate with James. Fine, both helped each other.


So yes, Paul did the ritual, no big deal really, so what!? In a transitional stressful time, in an unfolding history of the apostleship of Paul and the church, along with the integration of Jew and Gentile populations, and all of the other things going on then, Paul did not want to freak out James, he took the vow. So what? It was the way for thousands of years anyway, it is not like he worshipped an idol or pagan God or something. Besides, that whole temple was going down soon anyway. People get so carried away with Acts 21, for no reason, other than to think they “got Paul”!



I say, good for Paul! He can't win anyway, if he didn't take the vow, people today, would find fault with that too. They would say….

"Evil Paul, would not show love to James"

"Proud Paul!"

"Big shot apostle!"


When he takes the vow, they cry hypocrite, or try to make like after 17 years, he suddenly lived as a Jew again.
 
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Frogster

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The same place where is says that God is the same yesterday today and forever. The same place where is says that Adam was created in the image of God. The same place where it says that God created the Sabbath, hollowed it and sanctified it in Genesis 2.
where does Gen 2, say man can't work, or that man has to keep the sabbath rules that came thousands of years later?

you do not seem to understand expanding revelalation.
 
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Elder 111

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where does Gen 2, say man can't work, or that man has to keep the sabbath rules that came thousands of years later?

you do not seem to understand expanding revelalation.
Interesting that you should say that. For I take it that you did not see the "expanding revelation" in the respect that all that occurs was not written done all at once, but that which was revealed as time progress showed also that which was always part of the will and law of God. It must be if He is to be rightfully understood as the same yesterday today and forever.
Unless you will promote the idea that God never objected to Adam and others worshiping other gods until Sinai, and at that only of the Jews.
Should we understand that because there was no record of "thou shall not kill" before Sinai that Cain had no sin in killing Abel? Come on speak up! Is our God "evil" that He should charge a man with something that God never made him aware of?
That "thou should not commit adultery" was not known but yet Pharaoh new that it was evil to have Abraham's with? THe whole idea has not foundation and discredits God.
 
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