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Some questions for Christians who accept evolution

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Berean777

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Just so you know . . . Genesis 1 has Adam and his mate created on the last creation day. Genesis 2 and following has only Adam created and then a long narrative of all the other animals being created and no help meet found for Adam, and so Eve is created from his rib.

Since these stories appear contradictory . . . .early rabbinical commentators decided that there were two wives created for Adam. The first, Lillith, apparantly sinned in some way and so Eve was created to replace her.

Today, commentators simply consider them to different traditions conflated into the single book of Genesis.

Except there are those who simply deny they are contradictory, in spite of the difficulties in timing with that view.

They don't appear contradictory because they are not to be read as a sequential narrated story, rather they are highlighting all the things that God did with no specific order. Off course there was order in how things were created but the author uses an ingredients style of concrete writing that talks about functions and not sequences. Even the numbering of days have a functional aspect to them that the author writes about again further from that short summary.

These independent clauses are shown by the shear number of colons and semicolons used to portray a list of things.

For example if my wife gave me a grocery list I will enter them as I prefer to write them without any specific order to mind and each one would be off course purchased in an orderly manner when I am in the fruit section, I am NOT going to pick up an apple then head to the freezer section to pick up frozen vegetables, then head back again to the fruit section to pick up let's say a banana.

The author obviously lists everything that comes to mind without much thought to the sequence of events. The order he provides are tied to his perceived grand moments related to the FUNCTIONS of each event.

If you read Genesis from an abstract language point of view of today or from a scientific sequence then you completely missed the point that the author is trying to highlight.

The author used a concrete language structure with the anthropological thought process it accompanied which is completely opposite to how we think today according to our current world views.

For example the concrete language structure was built to describe functions of each event without specificity to sequence. Therefore each event will be described in the sequence and it is much going back and forth in describing each function and so it generates a lot of redundancy in the language, however the author's mission is to give a functional description of each event in the sequence. Sometimes when describing that function he would insert new things or leave out things. Sometimes he would leave out that the animals were created before Adam or even places them after Adam because his focus is not on the sequence but on the function related to the main character.

For example he talks about the creation of the world as the function of God and further down he uses that same information as light was created and further down in the functionality list he has Adam naming the animals and familiarising himself with the land and then Eve comes on the scene whereby the author tries to convey that Adam has down the due diligence in preparing a place for her and comforting her in seeing a totally new world, much like a child. In fact Adam was like a father to Eve when you think about it and the author tries to portray that in his writing.

Therefore your comment below is looking for timing and this is not what the author intended to highlight. Your looking at Genesis as a narrated sequence of events when it should be clear that it is not, rather it is going back and forth in describing the functions according to those that the author intended to talk about, that is all!

"Except there are those who simply deny they are contradictory, in spite of the difficulties in timing with that view"
 
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justlookinla

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Just so you know . . . Genesis 1 has Adam and his mate created on the last creation day. Genesis 2 and following has only Adam created and then a long narrative of all the other animals being created and no help meet found for Adam, and so Eve is created from his rib.

Thus two creation events in the view of some.

Since these stories appear contradictory . . . .early rabbinical commentators decided that there were two wives created for Adam. The first, Lillith, apparantly sinned in some way and so Eve was created to replace her.

Today, commentators simply consider them to different traditions conflated into the single book of Genesis.

Except there are those who simply deny they are contradictory, in spite of the difficulties in timing with that view.

Right, there are those who disagree that they're contradictory.
 
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AV1611VET

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The first, Lillith, apparantly sinned in some way and so Eve was created to replace her.
Lilith is a demon.
Lilith is a Hebrew name for a figure in Jewish mythology, developed earliest in the Babylonian Talmud, who is generally thought to be in part derived from a historically far earlier class of female demons in Mesopotamian religion, found in cuneiform texts of Sumer, Akkad, Assyria, and Babylonia.

Evidence in later Jewish materials is plentiful, but little information has been found relating to the original Sumerian, Akkadian, Assyrian and Babylonian view of these demons.
SOURCE
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Lilith is a demon.SOURCE

Yes, the legend of Lillith has it that after failing as Adam's wife she became a demon.

http://judaism.about.com/od/jewishculture/a/Where-Does-The-Legend-Of-Lilith-Come-From.html

Of course, there never was a real Lillith; they just made her up in order to explain the scriptures that otherwise seem difficult to reconcile. Kind of like explaining the continental separations as an event otherwise unmentioned in the bible but explained by the naming of Peleg.
 
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AV1611VET

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We can also see that the world outside of the garden was already populated with Cain finding a wife in Nod.
Was Cain not supposed to find anyone?

Adam lived for 130 years before Seth was born.

This means procreation was going on for around 129 years when Cain set out to find his wife.

Beings that God blessed Adam & Eve with fertility ...[VERSE=Genesis 1:28,KJV]And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.[/VERSE]... I would say a sizeable population existed in Cain's time.
 
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AV1611VET

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Of course, there never was a real Lillith; they just made her up in order to explain the scriptures that otherwise seem difficult to reconcile.
I wasn't aware Genesis 1 & 2 were hard to reconcile.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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I wasn't aware Genesis 1 & 2 were hard to reconcile.

Which came first . . . other animals, or Adam?

Gen 1:25-26 God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good. Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
NASU

versus

Gen 2:18-19 Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him." Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.
NASU
 
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AV1611VET

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Which came first . . . other animals, or Adam?
How many times was Adam placed into the Garden in Genesis 2?[VERSE=Genesis 2:8,KJV]And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.[/VERSE][VERSE=Genesis 2:15,KJV]And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.[/VERSE]
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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How many times was Adam placed into the Garden in Genesis 2?[VERSE=Genesis 2:8,KJV]And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.[/VERSE][VERSE=Genesis 2:15,KJV]And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.[/VERSE]

Verses such as these are used to support the idea of our current Genesis being the interweaving together of several traditional narratives.
 
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AV1611VET

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Verses such as these are used to support the idea of our current Genesis being the interweaving together of several traditional narratives.
Yet, you're willing to use an alternate translation (the NASU), yet you're not willing to believe translations such as the NIV, which says:[verse=Genesis 2:8,niv]Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed.[/verse]Thus it appears you're under the impression that these two chapters are contradictory, and are willing to filter out anything that would reconcile them.
 
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Colter

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Was Cain not supposed to find anyone?

Adam lived for 130 years before Seth was born.

This means procreation was going on for around 129 years when Cain set out to find his wife.

Beings that God blessed Adam & Eve with fertility ...[VERSE=Genesis 1:28,KJV]And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.[/VERSE]... I would say a sizeable population existed in Cain's time.

Was Cain not supposed to find anyone?

Adam lived for 130 years before Seth was born.

This means procreation was going on for around 129 years when Cain set out to find his wife.

Beings that God blessed Adam & Eve with fertility ...[VERSE=Genesis 1:28,KJV]And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.[/VERSE]... I would say a sizeable population existed in Cain's time.

According to the hacked up Biblical account Cain was Adams first born. But in actuality Cain was the child of another man, that was the sin, not eating an apple.

Anyway life had been in the earth for 550,000,000 by the time Adam and Eve arrived.
 
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Berean777

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According to the hacked up Biblical account Cain was Adams first born. But in actuality Cain was the child of another man, that was the sin, not eating an apple.

Anyway life had been in the earth for 550,000,000 by the time Adam and Eve arrived.

I should believe this?

Hmmmmmm.........Aaahhhhhhhhh..........Hmmmmmmm...........Aaaahhhhhhhhhhh.........No!
 
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Berean777

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As I stated before the Genesis account is written using a concrete functional language that is completely opposite to our abstract language and ways of thinking. You need to look at the Genesis account from an anthropological angle, by getting into the mind of the author, by trying to understand what he is trying to convey.

I will give you an example of concrete functional language.

Tomorrow is behind me.

Yesterday is before me.

Now to an abstract thinker this absolutely makes no sense, right?

But from an anthropological mind set the author who would write in this manner is trying to communicate that tomorrow is behind him, as his eyes can not see what is behind him and in that respect it is beyond his comprehension, because the events have not happened yet. Whereas yesterday is before him and his eyes can see the events because they had already happened.

If you force an abstract mindset on a concrete mindset, then you would sure enough see not only one contradiction but many. This is not the author's contradiction, it is your own invented contradiction.
 
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Davian

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popcorn.gif
 
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Not_By_Chance

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Which came first . . . other animals, or Adam?

Gen 1:25-26 God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good. Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
NASU

versus

Gen 2:18-19 Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him." Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.
NASU
This is what it says in my Genesis commentary, "As a matter of fact, it would be quite legitimate to translate verse 19 as follows: 'Also out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every fowl of the air; and had brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.' The Hebrew conjunction waw can just as well be translated 'also' as 'and.' Furthermore, the word 'formed' as in the King James (Hebrew yatsar) can, in the context, legitimately be translated 'had formed.' In any case, the obvious intent of the passage is to tell us that certain of the animals, already in existence, were now brought at this time to be inspected by Adam. There is no contradiction, either real or apparent, with the 'official' order of creation in Genesis 1."
 
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Not_By_Chance

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Here's an interesting passage I found today, "Dawkins and others have recognized that the ‘information space’ possible within just one gene is so huge that random changes without some guiding force could never come up with a new function. There could never be enough ‘experiments’ (mutating generations of organisms) to find anything useful by such a process. Note that an average gene of 1,000 base pairs represents 4 to the power of 1000 possibilities—that is 10 to the power of 602 (compare this with the number of atoms in the universe estimated at ‘only’ 10 to the power of 80). If every atom in the universe represented an ‘experiment’ every millisecond for the supposed 15 billion years of the universe, this could only try a maximum 10 to the power of 100 of the possibilities for the gene. So such a ‘neutral’ process cannot possibly find any sequence with specificity (usefulness), even allowing for the fact that more than just one sequence may be functional to some extent." Another nail in the coffin for evolutionary theory.

I've just discovered another item which looks interesting http://creation.com/clash-over-origins

I think I'll get my hands on a copy of the DVD - it should be quite amusing to see the arguments for evolution shot down.
 
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