Discussion The WONDERFUL gift and mystery of Tongues ... a spiritual language

[Righttruth]

Paul never said that he did (or chose) not to speak in tongues during the congregational meeting, in fact he said that he wanted all to speak in tongues during the congregational meetings; with the proviso that each meeting contains three tongues and interpretations along with three prophecies.

What he did say was that five cognitive words that can instruct and build up others has more value than 10,000 words that were being directed to the Father in praise through a non-cognitive utterance. He used this line of thought to build his case that we are not permitted to allow the widespread use of uninterpreted tongues within our meetings, where, even though this type of corporate praise can be wonderful, particularly within a smaller group of Believers, it has no place within the main meetings as it not only lacks the instructive value of prophecy (or teaching etc) but that it can upset the unsaved or cessationist visitor.

When we pray in the Spirit our words of praise are directed to the Father whereas prophecy is directed to the congregation which can help to build up and strengthen the Believer/congregation. With tongues, even with the subsequent interpretation/articulation, this can only provide 'edification' in that we are able to gain an understanding of what someone has said to the Father.

All these only prove that praying in unknown tongue is inferior and self-centered!

As for Paul, it would be interesting to be in a meeting where he was speaking words of praise to the Father in the Spirit and I would imagine that his ability to listen to the leading of the Spirit could possibly reveal some amazing insights into the wonders of God.

How does one know that he is praising God when it is unknown to him?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

While I have never received your book, you did give me directions in a PM on what to do.

I will just keep pressing on. Thanks though.

Edit: I also do not want my wife to see me receive a book from someone on the forums and I certainly cannot lie to her about where I got it. She already thinks that I receive to much "advice" from Christian forums and that I need to stay away from them and concentrate on my walk with God without outsiders help.

Actually, speaking in tongues is easier than you think. I have written many posts on the forum about it, and if you went through the different previous threads you will find it all there. I think it has to do with the mental attitude behind speaking what your logical mind seems like a whole lot of made up jibber jabber, and yet believing that God understands it.

About receiving advice - in the same way that us as member of a church, we are all part of a team, so are we on this forum. If you see everyone on this forum as being a fellowship team, then, as a band of brothers and sisters we respect each other, pick the meat from the bones, even though we might sharply disagree with each other at times. Things would be very boring if we were just cardboard replicas of each other.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What I meant was, advice from people on a forum. She is fine with advice from our church or our friends, just not people from a forum.

I guess it's because of the difference between folks we see and know, and those we don't see or know on a personal level. But the guiding factor in any advice whether it be in church or on here is the New Testament. Is the advice consistent with what is being taught in the New Testament?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

No, he said conclusively to desire better gifts.

Actually, when Paul said that he wasn't referring to tongues at all. He said "Pursue love and desire the best gifts." It's all in the context. So we desire the gifts that are best for us. Tongues may not seem the best for you, but it is a great gift for me!!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I am honest and frank.

Hi Frank. Glad to meet you!

Oh dear! Couldn't help that one!

I remember hearing Tonto's cousin saying, "Paleface speak with forked tongue!" I wonder which tongue he was referring to?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

All these only prove that praying in unknown tongue is inferior and self-centered!

Keep on believing that, and the best of British to you!

How does one know that he is praising God when it is unknown to him?

God knows, and that all that counts as far as I'm concerned!

 

[Alithis]

I am honest and frank.

then you agree there is no way any one can say paul did OR did not speak tongues in a public meeting .. good .. thats honest ..
as for frank.. i dont know what your name is ...

 

[Alithis]

Hi Frank. Glad to meet you!

Oh dear! Couldn't help that one!

I remember hearing Tonto's cousin saying, "Paleface speak with forked tongue!" I wonder which tongue he was referring to?

aahh snap.. it was asking for it though hahaha

 

[Alithis]

Why is that Paul says to desire better gifts if everything is wonderful? Finally, he says love is the best which happens to be the fruit of the Spirit, not the gift!

oh thats simple he is saying to desire gifts that are better for the building up if the body of christ when the body of christ is gathered together .as in congregated .

the rest of the time the gift of toungues is the beter gift when we are NOT gathered togetehr . he is not saying the gift of tongues is lesser but that in the setting of congragation..it is not the best tool to use when there are beter tols for that situation..

its a bit like saying don't hammer a nail with the handle of your screw driver when the guy next to you has a hammer on his tool belt .,
does that mean the screwdriver is a less important toll then a hammer ?. hmm not if i need to drive in screw ..

your trying to say something Paulo didnt mean .. and your doing so in favor of a teaching that someone who has never had the gift of tongues told you .
the gifts have their purposes and they are all entwined in the will of God

 

[Biblicist]

Praying with the Spirit need not be with unknown tongue.

All that I can say is that you must have a chuckle when you send off your posts as I struggle to believe that you are all that serious with your interactions on this particular forum.

 

[Biblicist]

All these only prove that praying in unknown tongue is inferior and self-centered!

I couldn't agree more . . . so it does appear that you can take a few Biblical truths on board, I'm impressed!

Now, when I'm praying to the Lord, I am definately concerned with my own needs and requests (being self-centered can be good), though this can change when I'm praying for others, but quite often my prayers probably revolve around my own immediate circle of concern and interests.

And I agree that praying in the Spirit is certainly not on the top of the Operations of the Spirit, but maybe, unlike that of our cesssationist friends, we might possibly view communing and praying to the Father as being fairly important. I suppose that I could say to the Father, hey, as praying in the Spirit is one of the lesser operations of the Spirit, could I maybe operate in healings or powers - now that would definately be self-centered.

How does one know that he is praising God when it is unknown to him?

I don't know about you chaps, but we use something called a Bible (has about 2200 pages) where someone called Paul provided us with a wealth of information.

 

[Righttruth]

Actually, when Paul said that he wasn't referring to tongues at all. He said "Pursue love and desire the best gifts." It's all in the context. So we desire the gifts that are best for us. Tongues may not seem the best for you, but it is a great gift for me!!

Paul says the greatest is love, that is the fruit of the Spirit. And adds to desire spiritual gifts especially prophesying. Human mind cannot comprehend what is best for us. It should be the will of God, not our cozy feelings.

 

[Righttruth]

Hi Frank. Glad to meet you!

Oh dear! Couldn't help that one!

I remember hearing Tonto's cousin saying, "Paleface speak with forked tongue!" I wonder which tongue he was referring to?

Known and unknown tongues!

 

[Righttruth]

Keep on believing that, and the best of British to you!

I won't allow nationality to decide on spiritual matters.

God knows, and that all that counts as far as I'm concerned!

That may be your presumption!

 

[Righttruth]

Yep, it did, and the cat kept well out of my way!!

You are dead right. He never spoke in tongues publicly and he taught against public tongues unless they were interpreted. But privately, he spoke in tongues more than all the rest of them put together! So, as much as he opposed public tongues, he enthusiastically endorsed private tongues.

I don't think he enthusiastically endorsed private tongues. Christianity is not just a private affair.

 

[Righttruth]

To keep consistently with his own teaching, he would have made sure that there was an interpreter, or that he interpreted himself, like Smith Wigglesworth used to do to great effect. Actually it was when Wigglesworth received tongues that his ministry took off and became really powerful. He adamantly believed in it and used it to its fullest potential, and his powerful ministry of healing and miracles has never been equalled!

The signs are for unbelievers. It is the fruit of the Spirit that is necessary.

then you agree there is no way any one can say paul did OR did not speak tongues in a public meeting .. good .. thats honest ..
as for frank.. i dont know what your name is ...

He main thrust in his letter was tackling unknown tongues in public. No way he would act otherwise!

 

[Righttruth]

oh thats simple he is saying to desire gifts that are better for the building up if the body of christ when the body of christ is gathered together .as in congregated .

the rest of the time the gift of toungues is the beter gift when we are NOT gathered togetehr . he is not saying the gift of tongues is lesser but that in the setting of congragation..it is not the best tool to use when there are beter tols for that situation..

its a bit like saying don't hammer a nail with the handle of your screw driver when the guy next to you has a hammer on his tool belt .,
does that mean the screwdriver is a less important toll then a hammer ?. hmm not if i need to drive in screw ..

your trying to say something Paulo didnt mean .. and your doing so in favor of a teaching that someone who has never had the gift of tongues told you .
the gifts have their purposes and they are all entwined in the will of God

If so, Paul would have never recommended to prefer better gifts.

 

[Righttruth]

All that I can say is that you must have a chuckle when you send off your posts as I struggle to believe that you are all that serious with your interactions on this particular forum.

I am serious. That is what Jude said.

Jude:20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

Jude never advocated the practice of speaking in unknown tongue!

 

[Righttruth]

I couldn't agree more . . . so it does appear that you can take a few Biblical truths on board, I'm impressed!

Now, when I'm praying to the Lord, I am definately concerned with my own needs and requests (being self-centered can be good), though this can change when I'm praying for others, but quite often my prayers probably revolve around my own immediate circle of concern and interests.

And I agree that praying in the Spirit is certainly not on the top of the Operations of the Spirit, but maybe, unlike that of our cesssationist friends, we might possibly view communing and praying to the Father as being fairly important. I suppose that I could say to the Father, hey, as praying in the Spirit is one of the lesser operations of the Spirit, could I maybe operate in healings or powers - now that would definately be self-centered.

Spiritual gifts are for common good. It will be useless because anti-Christ people may do much greater works! The greatest two commandments don't advocate self-centered affinity.

I don't know about you chaps, but we use something called a Bible (has about 2200 pages) where someone called Paul provided us with a wealth of information.

How much percentage in the entire Bible of 1 Corinthians chapters 12 to 14?

 

[Alithis]

If so, Paul would have never recommended to prefer better gifts.

yikes - i see now that you simply do not want to see the rather simplistic point i just made ....