Why is Jesus the ????

[bugkiller]

oh cut that out! Please..lets elevate the debate!

Make sure what ever you let him use to cut with is dull very dull.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Fulfill does not mean abolished!!!! Check your dictionary.

It does mean complete. What happens with a completed contract? Is it still valid and making requirements?

bugkiller

 

[Frogster]

Fulfill does not mean abolished!!!! Check your dictionary.

you want abolished verses? Check your Bible.






Hebrews 7:18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,


Hebrews 10:9
then he added, ‘See, I have come to do your will.’ He abolishes the first in order to establish the second.

2 Corinthians 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

Ephesians 2:15
by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,

Colossians 2:14
having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross

 

[Alithis]

why is the law a stumbling block, when people try to come to Christ by law? I am making a true and simple point.

Rom 9:32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,

Please refute verse 9:32, that shows the Jesus is a rock of offense to those who want to come to Him by law?

Gosh, I can't believe the reaction to such a simple fact.

ouhh i was baiting you tongue in cheek lol read the rest of the post its not disagreeing with you .
but as for "whats to be accomplished by it" .. no one has ever been convinced to change by being told they are wrong ..it the same as you say .. if you focus on the sin it makes one sin more .. same principle at work ..

 

[Frogster]

It does mean complete. What happens with a completed contract? Is it still valid and making requirements?

bugkiller

Excellent!

 

[TheBarrd]

did you get the Spirit by works or faith?

Gal 3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—

And do I obey the laws of God by my flesh, or by the Spirit of God within me?
Faith without works, says James, is dead.
It is Christ that saves us, and nothing we can ever do.
It is Christ Who sends us His comforter...His Spirit.

And His Spirit lives within us, conforming us to His Will.

Is it His Will for us to disobey the laws of God?
Heaven forbid! (an heaven has forbidden it)
Can I obey the laws of God on my own?
No, of course not. The spirit, as they say, is willing...but oh, the sinful flesh!

It is the Spirit within me that obeys God, and does His Holy Will.

Why has Christ sent us His Holy Spirit? (hint: it's not so that we can babble in gibberish and think we are "spirit-filled")

Is it not to bring all things that He taught us to our remembrance?

And what things did He teach us?

Well, He taught us to love.
He taught us to forgive.
He taught us to be humble.
He taught us many things...

He taught us that not one jot nor tittle would pass from the law...
And He taught us that we must obey His commands.

Which commands?

What, is the servant greater than his Master?
If Jesus obeyed the commandments, then I will also obey the commandments.

It really is as simple as that, no matter how folks dance around it trying to make it complicated.
I am following Jesus...I will do my best to follow the example He set for me.

 

[Winepress777]

Fulfill does not mean abolished!!!! Check your dictionary.

Does "abolished" mean abolished?

2Co_3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:


Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;


2Ti_1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

 

[Frogster]

Does "abolished" mean abolished?

2Co_3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:


Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;


2Ti_1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

 

[Frogster]

And do I obey the laws of God by my flesh, or by the Spirit of God within me?
Faith without works, says James, is dead.
It is Christ that saves us, and nothing we can ever do.
It is Christ Who sends us His comforter...His Spirit.

And His Spirit lives within us, conforming us to His Will.

Is it His Will for us to disobey the laws of God?
Heaven forbid! (an heaven has forbidden it)
Can I obey the laws of God on my own?
No, of course not. The spirit, as they say, is willing...but oh, the sinful flesh!

It is the Spirit within me that obeys God, and does His Holy Will.

Why has Christ sent us His Holy Spirit? (hint: it's not so that we can babble in gibberish and think we are "spirit-filled")

Is it not to bring all things that He taught us to our remembrance?

And what things did He teach us?

Well, He taught us to love.
He taught us to forgive.
He taught us to be humble.
He taught us many things...

He taught us that not one jot nor tittle would pass from the law...
And He taught us that we must obey His commands.

Which commands?

What, is the servant greater than his Master?
If Jesus obeyed the commandments, then I will also obey the commandments.

It really is as simple as that, no matter how folks dance around it trying to make it complicated.
I am following Jesus...I will do my best to follow the example He set for me.

Faith without works is dead? Then that would mean you think works can bring life. It has to be for if what you say is true, then works have to bring life.

Yet Paul said they do not.

21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.

 

[TheBarrd]

Does "abolished" mean abolished?

2Co_3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:


Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;


2Ti_1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

What things are being abolished here?
The law?
NO!
Nor do these verses say that at all.
What is being abolished is death!!!

The Old Covenant brought death. There was no grace, no forgiveness.
God was aloof, separated from His people, approachable only by His priesthood or His prophets.
All that is changed under the New Covenant.
The law is still there, but now it is not written on tables of stone....but on tables of flesh...it is written in our very hearts.
God is no longer aloof, separated, unapproachable. He is close to each and every one of His children. His sheep know His voice, and He knows them...nor will they listen to the voice of strangers.
And the penalty for sin? Was death. DEATH.
And death has been abolished. He has brought life and mortality to light through His gospel.

Let him who has ears, hear.
Let him who has eyes, see.

 

[Winepress777]

What things are being abolished here?
The law?
NO!
Nor do these verses say that at all.
What is being abolished is death!!!

The Old Covenant brought death. There was no grace, no forgiveness.
God was aloof, separated from His people, approachable only by His priesthood or His prophets.
All that is changed under the New Covenant.
The law is still there, but now it is not written on tables of stone....but on tables of flesh...it is written in our very hearts.
God is no longer aloof, separated, unapproachable. He is close to each and every one of His children. His sheep know His voice, and He knows them...nor will they listen to the voice of strangers.
And the penalty for sin? Was death. DEATH.
And death has been abolished. He has brought life and mortality to light through His gospel.

Let him who has ears, hear.
Let him who has eyes, see.

I read it again. Yes, the Law of Moses was abolished. What was your question?

 

[TheBarrd]

Faith without works is dead? Then that would mean you think works can bring life. It has to be for if what you say is true, then works have to bring life.

Yet Paul said they do not.

21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.

"Faith without works is dead"...those are not my words, my little green friend.
Those are the words of the Apostle James.
Yep...how 'bout that. There were other apostles besides Paul...

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Whoa, James...give us that last bit again?

faith without works is dead.

So, we have Jesus telling us to obey His commands, and James telling us that faith without works is dead.
Now, is Paul contradicting these two? If he seems to be, then I must assume that somehow, we have misunderstood Paul.
Perhaps taken something he said out of context? Or misunderstood the situation?
I'm sure it is not his error...

 

[TheBarrd]

I read it again. Yes, the Law of Moses was abolished. What was your question?

I am not referring to the law of Moses, but to the law of God.

 

[Winepress777]

I am not referring to the law of Moses, but to the law of God.

The verse I quoted referred to the Law of Moses. If you want to know about the Law of God, you should read the posts Frogster has put up. He's got it clear enough you can follow it. Christ ushered in our New Covenant. The New LAWful marriage Covenant in His Blood. It has no relationship to that old marriage covenant law of Moses, which was abolished when Jesus, the HUSBAND DIED.

(Rom 7:3) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.


(Rom 7:4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

There is no NEW marriage for Anyone, until they have become DEAD to that OT marriage Law. This is a great mystery speaking of the Church. When it is revealed, it is evident that the First Lawful marriage covenant is abolished. That is why the word ABOLISHED is used.

 

[TheBarrd]

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Notice, this covenant is not being made with Gentiles, but with Israel. Just like the first one.

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

A great deal has been made of those words "Not according to." But what do they mean? Simply that this new covenant will not be the same as the old one. But in what ways shall it differ? Well, Jeremiah tells us that, too...

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Well, if you thought there wasn't going to be any law under this covenant, you're in for a disappointment. Not only will there still be God's law, but He will now write it in your inward parts, and on your heart...and in this way He will be our God, and we shall be His people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

We wanted to know how this covenant would not be like the old one...and here it is for us. God will not be aloof, separate, distant...we will not need to learn about Him from His priesthood or His prophets...because He will be known to each of us, intimately. We call it having a relationship with Him.
And He will forgive us, and remember our sin no more.
And that is what is meant by grace.

Those old ordinances, that said that sinners must die? All gone!
Death is abolished under this New Covenant!

Oh, grave, where is thy victory?
Oh death, where is thy sting?

 

[TheBarrd]

The verse I quoted referred to the Law of Moses. If you want to know about the Law of God, you should read the posts Frogster has put up. He's got it clear enough you can follow it. Christ ushered in our New Covenant. The New LAWful marriage Covenant in His Blood. It has no relationship to that old marriage covenant law of Moses, which was abolished when Jesus, the HUSBAND DIED.

(Rom 7:3) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.


(Rom 7:4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

There is no NEW marriage for Anyone, until they have become DEAD to that OT marriage Law. This is a great mystery speaking of the Church. When it is revealed, it is evident that the First Lawful marriage covenant is abolished. That is why the word ABOLISHED is used.

Well, my dear, your "HUSBAND" might be dead...but my BRIDEGROOM is ALIVE!!!!!
And I am keeping oil in my lamp, because He will be coming for me.

 

[Winepress777]

Well, my dear, your "HUSBAND" might be dead...but my BRIDEGROOM is ALIVE!!!!!
And I am keeping oil in my lamp, because He will be coming for me.

Not unless you've Married Him in the New LAWful Marriage Covenant. He won't have you if you attempt to hold on to that old relationship with Him. He died for you. So you die for Him, THEN can be Married to Him raised from the dead, bringing forth Sons of God, being fruitful. That is what it is all about. But it won't happen if you try to hang on to that previous marriage for some reason

 

[Frogster]

What things are being abolished here?
The law?
NO!
Nor do these verses say that at all.
What is being abolished is death!!!

The Old Covenant brought death. There was no grace, no forgiveness.
God was aloof, separated from His people, approachable only by His priesthood or His prophets.
All that is changed under the New Covenant.
The law is still there, but now it is not written on tables of stone....but on tables of flesh...it is written in our very hearts.
God is no longer aloof, separated, unapproachable. He is close to each and every one of His children. His sheep know His voice, and He knows them...nor will they listen to the voice of strangers.
And the penalty for sin? Was death. DEATH.
And death has been abolished. He has brought life and mortality to light through His gospel.

Let him who has ears, hear.
Let him who has eyes, see.

incorrect, it says the law in Eph 2:15, all of those verses are about the law or the cov, same thing, the cov was based off law, see Lev 26:15.

 

[Frogster]

"Faith without works is dead"...those are not my words, my little green friend.
Those are the words of the Apostle James.
Yep...how 'bout that. There were other apostles besides Paul...

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Whoa, James...give us that last bit again?

faith without works is dead.

So, we have Jesus telling us to obey His commands, and James telling us that faith without works is dead.
Now, is Paul contradicting these two? If he seems to be, then I must assume that somehow, we have misunderstood Paul.
Perhaps taken something he said out of context? Or misunderstood the situation?
I'm sure it is not his error...

then you have to think works can produce life! hehehehe

 

[Frogster]

I am not referring to the law of Moses, but to the law of God.

same thing, the law was the law from God, no semantics sayeth the frog.