mandatory vaccinations

[ebia]

as Blackribbon pointed out, some children are harmed by vaccines

The risk of harm from vaccines is tiny compared to the risk of harm from the disease.

and even if you do not get vaccinated, there is not a 100% chance of the child getting infected

Providing everybody else is getting vaccinated.

so I do agree that children who do not receive needed medical care should be taken away from their parents, such vaccines are not clearly needed, but rather playing the odds
you bet that your child wont have serious complications due to the vaccine, you bet that your child might need this vaccine some time in the future

those are reasonable bets
I am all for vaccines, they are great, we should increase taxes on the rich to pay for poor people who can not afford them

In most countries that goes without saying. Vaccination programs are paid for by the state.

but it comes down to, is this a good bet or a bad bet, this is not clearly something that is needed to save a child's life like a blood transfusion or an organ transplant, it is a bet

Not really.
A. The risk is nothing like compatible.
B. By not being vaccinated you pose a very significant risk to others

also, no matter how well you take care of a body, the body will die
the soul is everlasting

The NT has a high view of the body. After all, it will be resurrected.

 

[Mayzoo]

I believe on the whole vaccines are safe for the masses, and a good thing. With that said, my child cannot be vaccinated any longer. She suffered a vaccine injury that has left her with a compromised immune system that may never recover. By immunologist's order, she may not be vaccinated now and maybe never again.

However, I would never advocate "mandatory" vaccination for other children. What I do advocate is accelerating the research into genetics to better ascertain which children vaccines are likely safest for (we will never have a 100% guarantee). If/when parents had a more reasonable assurance their child would not be injured thus suffering reduced quality of life (or no quality of life) for the remainder of their life, then vaccine compliance would soar IMO.

 

[ebia]

I believe on the whole vaccines are safe for the masses, and a good thing. With that said, my child cannot be vaccinated any longer. She suffered a vaccine injury that has left her with a compromised immune system that may never recover. By immunologist's order, she may not be vaccinated now and maybe never again.

However, I would never advocate "mandatory" vaccination for other children. What I do advocate is accelerating the research into genetics to better ascertain which children vaccines are likely safest for (we will never have a 100% guarantee). If/when parents had a more reasonable assurance their child would not be injured thus suffering reduced quality of life (or no quality of life) for the remainder of their life, then vaccine compliance would soar IMO.

Nothing is ever completely without risk. The major vaccines that are out there are very, very, safe. And that's best ascertained by historical data.
The problem is parents who read misinformation and lies that are out there about the risks, and aren't equpped to understand risk properly. That's not going to be solved by putting out more data.

 

[Catherineanne]

I believe on the whole vaccines are safe for the masses, and a good thing. With that said, my child cannot be vaccinated any longer. She suffered a vaccine injury that has left her with a compromised immune system that may never recover. By immunologist's order, she may not be vaccinated now and maybe never again.

However, I would never advocate "mandatory" vaccination for other children. What I do advocate is accelerating the research into genetics to better ascertain which children vaccines are likely safest for (we will never have a 100% guarantee). If/when parents had a more reasonable assurance their child would not be injured thus suffering reduced quality of life (or no quality of life) for the remainder of their life, then vaccine compliance would soar IMO.

I am sorry about your daughter, and I agree about the importance of future research.

Your daughter's compromised immune system makes it particularly important for other children around her to be vaccinated.

 

[blackribbon]

The risk of harm from vaccines is tiny compared to the risk of harm from the disease.

Well, not really considering the chances of getting many of the diseases now are almost non-existent...even without the vaccine.

However, for that child who will be vaccine damaged, it is not a true statement at all. And I repeat, that you don't know who will be damaged until you vaccinate them. For the damaged child, the risk related to vaccine damage was 100% ....the changes of being damaged my any of the almost non-existent disease are probably much less than 1%.

And actually, most of the diseases are not really that dangerous for healthy children anyway. My generation had the bum measles vaccine where many of my fully vaccinated friends got measles anyway. The didn't die or have life long health problems...they missed two weeks of school sitting in a dark room at home. So then you have to determine the real risk of the disease...like rubella is not a big deal to the kid with the virus...only to any pregnant ladies that the sick child comes in contact with (rubella was declared irradicated in the US in 2004).

The risk to my son of having a seizure before his 6th birthday was just shy of 100% if he ran a temperature. Read the primary side effect of most vaccines...muscle aches at the injection site and fevers.

 

[IHOM]

Forced vaccination is like forced abortions

Forced vaccines is like non sexual rape

Forced vaccines is like slavery

Forced vaccines is takes away informed conscent

Forced vaccines puts in place legislation that could be exploited by future tyranical governments

 

[blackribbon]

Many of those pertussis babies have caught the disease from ADULTS who are carrying the virus.

For those of you who are for mandatory vaccines for all, when is the last time you got YOUR boosters as adults. Many of the vaccines we got as children have turned out not to have given lifetime immunity after all. I ended up needing an MMR booster at age 26 when I was getting ready to try having kids because my titers showed I had no immunity anymore. If this is so important to you, please go get your titers and necessary vaccines before you mandate your opinions on my child.

Can I add, a vaccinated person can still be a carrier for a virus....they just won't get sick.

 

[Mayzoo]

Forced vaccination is like forced abortions

Forced vaccines is like non sexual rape

Forced vaccines is like slavery

Forced vaccines is takes away informed conscent

Forced vaccines puts in place legislation that could be exploited by future tyranical governments

Forced vaccines is like forced vaccines. It is possibly akin to forced insurance.

It is a very poor analogy to state it is like slavery, or abortions. To my knowledge, there is no such thing as non-sexual rape.

 

[ebia]

Well, not really considering the chances of getting many of the diseases now are almost non-existent...even without the vaccine.

Only where vaccination rates are around 90-95% or better.
Where the rate drops to 80%, say, the risk of the disease goes up dramatically.

However, for that child who will be vaccine damaged, it is not a true statement at all. And I repeat, that you don't know who will be damaged until you vaccinate them. For the damaged child, the risk related to vaccine damage was 100% ....

This is exactly what is meant by not understanding risk.




the changes of being damaged my any of the almost non-existent disease are probably much less than 1%.

And actually, most of the diseases are not really that dangerous for healthy children anyway. My generation had the bum measles vaccine where many of my fully vaccinated friends got measles anyway. The didn't die or have life long health problems...they missed two weeks of school sitting in a dark room at home.

Measles used to kill millions of people a year before we vaccinated for it.
Rubella causes massive damage to unborn babies.

So then you have to determine the real risk of the disease...like rubella is not a big deal to the kid with the virus...only to any pregnant ladies that the sick child comes in contact with (rubella was declared irradicated in the US in 2004).

If vaccination rates go down, it will make a comeback quickly.

The risk to my son of having a seizure before his 6th birthday was just shy of 100% if he ran a temperature. Read the primary side effect of most vaccines...muscle aches at the injection site and fevers.

 

[ebia]

Many of those pertussis babies have caught the disease from ADULTS who are carrying the virus.

For those of you who are for mandatory vaccines for all, when is the last time you got YOUR boosters as adults.

Two and half years ago.
absolutely, we need adults to keep up their vaccinations,

Can I add, a vaccinated person can still be a carrier for a virus....they just won't get sick.

not generally true.
Vaccines work by effectively training your immune system to deal with the disease. You don't get sick because your immune system kills off the virus very quickly. That's the whole point. That's why herd immunity matters.

For diseases that don't work that way, like tetanus that isn't caught from infected people, herd immunity doesn't matter and vaccination is a valid indivudal choice (though the relative risks still mean that it's stupid not to get vaccinated).

 

[Mayzoo]

I am sorry about your daughter, and I agree about the importance of future research.

Your daughter's compromised immune system makes it particularly important for other children around her to be vaccinated.

For those who choose to vaccinate, I am grateful. I; however, would not "force" another family to risk their child's health/future, no matter how slight the risk, with the hopes of helping my child avoid illness. I know many others would, but I will not.

 

[beaverpond]

vaccinations - my wife and I are torn on the issue as it depends on which ones we are talking about. Some of them we are fine with, others not so much. When the doctor tried to give our daughter the one for birth control at age 9...I, with an attitude mind you, said you first. I said we are Christians, just as you are, and our daughter wants nothing to do with sex at such a young age. Why you would even recommend something like this to us or somebody of such a young age is beyond me. He said it was the responsible thing to do. I told him to bring in his daughter and give it to her and he said no way and said why not and he said she is only 8 years old and I said so what, so what is your point. He gave up at that point because he knew where this conversation was going and knew he was going to lose.

 

[ebia]

vaccinations - my wife and I are torn on the issue as it depends on which ones we are talking about. Some of them we are fine with, others not so much. When the doctor tried to give our daughter the one for birth control at age 9...I, with an attitude mind you, said you first. I said we are Christians, just as you are, and our daughter wants nothing to do with sex at such a young age. Why you would even recommend something like this to us or somebody of such a young age is beyond me. He said it was the responsible thing to do. I told him to bring in his daughter and give it to her and he said no way and said why not and he said she is only 8 years old and I said so what, so what is your point. He gave up at that point because he knew where this conversation was going and knew he was going to lose.

A birth control shot is not a vaccine. It doesn't fall into what we are talking about.

 

[Mayzoo]

A birth control shot is not a vaccine. It doesn't fall into what we are talking about.

I believe he is referring to Gardasil for HPV. I am not sure, but the age range is right.

 

[IHOM]

I am not giving medical advice here. I know some here are giving medical advice such as vaccines are very very safe... and i am pro vaccine... my kids are vaccinated... i just want to play devils advocate here...

When we say "vaccines are very very safe" we are only repeating what we have been told by the medical organisations. We repeat that then others agree becuase they have heard the same organisations say it the more people who repeat it then it becomes accepted as fact it becomes the herd mentality

Now where has this herd mentality come from if not from the same medical organisations that conduct the ethical evils of abortion and produce vaccines derrived from abortion... and we trust them when they say they are safe..the same organisation making billions off injections... yet we read stories after story here in the uk of vaccine complications and even deaths... also one of the guys who wrote the medical paper with dr andrew wakefeild that said there maybe a "possible" link between autism and the mmr has been totally exhonerated "quietly" and poor dr wakefeild left pennieless could not afford to fight in court to clearchis name.... like i say i am not giving advice... but it is worth thinking about

 

[IHOM]

A birth control shot is not a vaccine. It doesn't fall into what we are talking about.

I dont know about the usa but here in the uk there is a birth control injection its a yearly injection. There is also something they insert into your arm.... both forms are abortianefficent

 

[ebia]

I am not giving medical advice here. I know some here are giving medical advice such as vaccines are very very safe... and i am pro vaccine... my kids are vaccinated... i just want to play devils advocate here...

When we say "vaccines are very very safe" we are only repeating what we have been told by the medical organisations.

Speak for yourself.
Some of us have looked at the studies, and have the background in statistics to be able to do so..

. yet we read stories after story here in the uk of vaccine complications and even deaths.

Anecdotal stories are not a valid way to assess risk.

.. also one of the guys who wrote the medical paper with dr andrew wakefeild that said there maybe a "possible" link between autism and the mmr has been totally exhonerated "quietly" and poor dr wakefeild left pennieless could not afford to fight in court to clearchis name.... like i say i am not giving advice... but it is worth thinking about

Andrew Wakefield has been completely discredited. When someone knowingly spreads very dangerous lies I don't have a whole heap of sympathy.

 

[ebia]

I dont know about the usa but here in the uk there is a birth control injection its a yearly injection. There is also something they insert into your arm.... both forms are abortianefficent

It's not a vaccine.

Not every injection is a vaccine.

A vaccine is small amount of virus (dead or alive or hoax according the disease) that basically gives your immune system a practice go at fighting the disease.
What a birth control drug does - injected or otherwise - is completely different.

 

[IHOM]

Dr john walker smith is his name... i would give the link but i cant get them to work..... co author and totally exhonerated.... dr andrew wakefeilds name remains blackend because he could not afford to fight the court case

 

[ebia]

Dr john walker smith is his name... i would give the link but i cant get them to work..... co author and totally exhonerated.... dr andrew wakefeilds name remains blackend because he could not afford to fight the court case

No, it remains blackened because he was a dangeous fraud