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Is Masturbation a sin?

Cearbhall

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Until you define what that work of the flesh is that is called uncleanness, it is not variance. It is called Biblical correction and thus not giving any inch for rationalization to occur, no matter how many believers are following the wrong crowd on this issue.
So it's only variance when it's someone else who has a different interpretation of the text. You alone are exempt from this. Got it.
 
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Tellastory

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So it's only variance when it's someone else who has a different interpretation of the text. You alone are exempt from this. Got it.

I see you are still leaving the work of the flesh called uncleanness as undefined.

There are Biblical division and sinful ones.

Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Romans 16:17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

1 Corinthians 1:10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

So we are not speaking the same thing and therefore the progress of this discussion is at an impasse because your side is not addressing what that work of the flesh is that is called uncleanness in the N.T. Care to define it in defense of your point of view?
 
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Meowzltov

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I do not recollect all of them, but the pastor in the video stated that doing masturbation in marriage is not to be practised, because the spouse is to meet the needs of the other as they are one flesh. ( I "think" he gave an exception to when the spouse is terminally ill or actually sick & not faking a headache to avoid sex. )

Also, he stated that masturbating in a group is not acceptable in God's eye either.

The only problem here is that he has no scripture validifying his specific conditions or restrictions & yet, all the while, ignoring how uncleanness as a work of the flesh has to be masturbation and nothing else.

He did say in the video that he hoped he was not teaching something that the Lord did not want him to teach, and so already, the Lord was working on his conscience, as he had doubts about what he was teaching.

So basically what he was teaching as those five conditions is a rationalization.
Personally, I believe that masturbation is a sin. However, I think this man was trying to be reasonable. He was starting with the premise that it was not a sin, but recognizing that there were times when it was. I have no problems with people using their reasoning to understand ethics. The Bible does not cover everything.
 
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Tellastory

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Personally, I believe that masturbation is a sin.

Well, I am glad that the Lord Jesus Christ has helped you to see that.

However, I think this man was trying to be reasonable. He was starting with the premise that it was not a sin, but recognizing that there were times when it was. I have no problems with people using their reasoning to understand ethics.

Proverbs 14:12There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

The Bible does not cover everything.

Can you give an example?
 
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Winepress777

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Is Masturbation a sin?

Of course not.
Adultery is and other sexual sins are also specifically dealt with in scriptures. It is plain what a sin is or isn't, and masturbation isn't one of them. It is probably a means for many to avoid sin if anything at all. So I'd remove any person out of my congregation who began preaching such a man-made silly idea. Certainly we wouldn't want others to be infected with such non-sense as Jesus and His Saints warns us against getting caught up in.

Colossians 2:8

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

Matthew 15:14

Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”

Matthew 15:9
In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”
 
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Meowzltov

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Can you give an example?
Sure. The Bible doesn't address in vitro fertilization. We have to reason our way up the chain of moral decisions to arrive at a conclusion. Even so, Christians disagree on it, precisely because there isn't a clear Biblical pronouncement.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Until you define what that work of the flesh is that is called uncleanness, it is not variance. It is called Biblical correction and thus not giving any inch for rationalization to occur, no matter how many believers are following the wrong crowd on this issue.

How many Bible believing christians in the South were lynching black people just because they believed it was the right thing to do and "everybody" was doing it? And so it still doesn't make that right nor masturbation either.

Uncleanness in this verse simply means not to contaminate ourselves with sin. It is not permission to make up what sin is.
 
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KitKatMatt

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I don't understand why masturbation shouldn't be allowed in marriage.

People can have different sexual drives, and no one is required to have sex with their spouse when they don't want to just because the spouse needs sexual release (remember what sex with an unwilling person is, even when you're married). Masturbation seems to be a good solution in that situation.

Plus, sometimes a person doesn't even feel like actually having sex, and would just rather get things over with on their own. How is that a bad thing?
 
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StephanieSomer

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No. I do not see it there at all.

So answer the question why did regular marital relations render husband and wife "unclean" until sundown and they bathed? regular Sexual relations were COMMANDED between spouses in both testaments. And yet it rendered them unclean.

That should clue people to the fact that "unclean" does NOT equal "sinful". God would NEVER command an act that was sinful. But, He DOES command some acts that are "unclean". The truth is, uncleanness is ceremonial. It has nothing to do with any aspect of character.

Now, I'm quite sure that some will disagree with that. What they are willfully ignoring is the difference between convictions and prohibition. Convictions are personal and NOT universal. Our interpretations of verses are heavily influenced by our convictions. But, that doesn't make our interpretation accurate according to God's standard. My OWN convictions on masturbation preclude me from exercising it. But that doesn't make my conviction enforceable on anyone else. I am bound to relate the truth of God's Word as it is, not as I want it to be. God will judge us if we trespass our convictions, based on the fact that to do so is NOT an act of faith, and whatsoever is not of faith IS sin. However, He will also judge those who insist their convictions are the equivalent of Scripture. They are stepping into very dangerous ground by so doing. NOTHING can take the place of God's Word. Nothing. Not even your convictions.
 
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StephanieSomer

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Correct. Uncleanness can be applied towards hygiene, but then you have to decide what uncleanness is when it is listed as a work of the flesh which is sinful and unless a believer repents of it with His help, he risks losing his first inheritance and be left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event to be received later on along with the rest of the prodigal sons that had given up their first inheritance for wild living, even though there will be weeping & gnashing of teeth over the loss of that first inheritance for being left behind.

There are so many errors here, I don't know where to begin.
 
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StephanieSomer

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I do not recollect all of them, but the pastor in the video stated that doing masturbation in marriage is not to be practised, because the spouse is to meet the needs of the other as they are one flesh. ( I "think" he gave an exception to when the spouse is terminally ill or actually sick & not faking a headache to avoid sex. )

Also, he stated that masturbating in a group is not acceptable in God's eye either.

The only problem here is that he has no scripture validifying his specific conditions or restrictions & yet, all the while, ignoring how uncleanness as a work of the flesh has to be masturbation and nothing else.

He did say in the video that he hoped he was not teaching something that the Lord did not want him to teach, and so already, the Lord was working on his conscience, as he had doubts about what he was teaching.

So basically what he was teaching as those five conditions is a rationalization.

Bolding mine.

If that is true, what possible reason would there be for THEN allowing it? Would it not be simply for the physical release of pent up sexual stress? And, if THAT is true, what reason do you think most people who practice it are doing? Do you believe that God WANTS us to allow sexual tension to grow to a point of distraction? Just so you know, that tension is the result of hormones and other bodily chemicals. They don't dissipate by ignoring them. I recognize a possibility that masturbation could be the promised "way of escape" from sexual sins driven by excess sexual tension.

That's NOT the only problem. There is a huge problem with enforcing a personal interpretation on the rest of the Body. I have no argument with you how you interpret "uncleanness" as far as your own convictions. You are absolutely free to do so. The Bible would protect your right to do so. But, it does NOT protect your right to enforce your interpretation on anyone else. Many honest godfearing people will disagree with how you view that word. Are you any better than they? You have no explicit Scripture validating any of your interpretations, either. No doubt, your interpretation is helpful in YOUR walk. I'm all for that. But judging another's practice of faith is denounced directly in Scripture. And that's exactly what you are doing.
 
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StephanieSomer

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Well, I am glad that the Lord Jesus Christ has helped you to see that.



Proverbs 14:12There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.



Can you give an example?


Sure. Speeding on the highway.
 
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Meowzltov

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Tellastory

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"Still?" I don't believe we've conversed before. I could be wrong.

Since your reply was expounding off of Paul of Eugene OR. in the progress of the discussion in relations to variance, it was in respect to that conversation, but yes, technically, I did not converse with you directly, but you did joined in the conversation which called for defining uncleanness to really apply the work of the flesh of variance to something I was accused of doing.
 
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Tellastory

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Is Masturbation a sin?

Of course not.

Adultery is and other sexual sins are also specifically dealt with in scriptures. It is plain what a sin is or isn't, and masturbation isn't one of them. It is probably a means for many to avoid sin if anything at all.

Masturbation has never been taught as a means to avoid the sin of fornication, adultery, or to be free of the "burning".

What is uncleanness given among the sexual sins when the works of the flesh have been listed?

Until you define it, you will not see uncleanness in the Bible of the N.T. as meaning what we call masturbation today.

As it is, if a believer had always believed a sin was okay, it would take a miracle from the Lord to see the truth in His words, but He has been known to do it for those that seek the truth from Him as well as His promises to deliver them from their sins & keep them from their sins to be content and thereby have godliness too.
 
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Tellastory

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Bolding mine.

If that is true, what possible reason would there be for THEN allowing it? Would it not be simply for the physical release of pent up sexual stress? And, if THAT is true, what reason do you think most people who practice it are doing? Do you believe that God WANTS us to allow sexual tension to grow to a point of distraction? Just so you know, that tension is the result of hormones and other bodily chemicals. They don't dissipate by ignoring them. I recognize a possibility that masturbation could be the promised "way of escape" from sexual sins driven by excess sexual tension.

That's NOT the only problem. There is a huge problem with enforcing a personal interpretation on the rest of the Body. I have no argument with you how you interpret "uncleanness" as far as your own convictions. You are absolutely free to do so. The Bible would protect your right to do so. But, it does NOT protect your right to enforce your interpretation on anyone else.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

2 Corinthians 12:And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

Until you define uncleanness as listed among these sexual sins, you cannot prove that it is just my "private interpretation".

Many honest godfearing people will disagree with how you view that word. Are you any better than they? You have no explicit Scripture validating any of your interpretations, either. No doubt, your interpretation is helpful in YOUR walk. I'm all for that. But judging another's practice of faith is denounced directly in Scripture. And that's exactly what you are doing.

Many godfearing believers are glossing over the term uncleanness as referenced in the N.T. They have yet to define it to say that by definition of uncleanness as referred to the N.T., it does not means masturbation, only because they can't, and so they will not do it.

So in other words, they have yet to offer their "private interpretation" of what uncleanness is as listed as a work of the flesh and among the sexual sins in the N.T.

Jesus Christ is in them and is waiting for them to call on Him to deliver them from that sin, but apparently, they need to call on Him to help them define uncleanness in the N.T.
 
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Winepress777

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Masturbation has never been taught as a means to avoid the sin of fornication, adultery, or to be free of the "burning".

What is uncleanness given among the sexual sins when the works of the flesh have been listed?

Until you define it, you will not see uncleanness in the Bible of the N.T. as meaning what we call masturbation today.

As it is, if a believer had always believed a sin was okay, it would take a miracle from the Lord to see the truth in His words, but He has been known to do it for those that seek the truth from Him as well as His promises to deliver them from their sins & keep them from their sins to be content and thereby have godliness too.
Such a thing need not "to be taught" as though a person isn't capable of utilizing such a release without running to some teacher. God is my teacher. I am confident HE doesn't consider masturbation a sin in the least. And that is all that is important. What He says or doesn't say is the only Word to hear. Not a man's ideas about it.

(Rom 3:4) God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
 
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StephanieSomer

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2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

2 Corinthians 12:And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

Until you define uncleanness as listed among these sexual sins, you cannot prove that it is just my "private interpretation".



Many godfearing believers are glossing over the term uncleanness as referenced in the N.T. They have yet to define it to say that by definition of uncleanness as referred to the N.T., it does not means masturbation, only because they can't, and so they will not do it.

So in other words, they have yet to offer their "private interpretation" of what uncleanness is as listed as a work of the flesh and among the sexual sins in the N.T.

Jesus Christ is in them and is waiting for them to call on Him to deliver them from that sin, but apparently, they need to call on Him to help them define uncleanness in the N.T.

The problem is NOT that I, or anybody else, hasn't defined "uncleanness". The problem is that you have declared yourself the authority of what it DOES mean. And you have NOT offered any justification whatsoever for your definition. You claim it means what you say it means and your only justification you have offered is "what else could it mean?". There is no Scriptural basis for your definition, only your own thoughts on the matter. ANY argument based on a non-existent thing is inherently riddled with human reasoning, not apologetics.
 
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Meowzltov

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The problem with masturbation is not that it is ritually unclean. Being ritually unclean is not a sin. A woman is ritually unclean when she has her period, nothing sinful about that. And immersion in the mikveh for ritual uncleanliness isn't going to forgive a sin that you haven't repented of. If one is committing adultery, one is also ritually unclean each time one has intercourse. Yet immersion and the passage of time do nothing to cleanse the sin guilt of the adultery.

IF masturbation is a sin (and I'll say IF, since people are arguing about that here), the whole ritual impurity aspect of masturbation is irrelevant to it.
 
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