Is Masturbation a sin?

[Dave-W]

I edited my last post to include a reference to Genesis 3:16. Sexual relations between husband & wife were condoned by God but after sin entered the world, sex produced death - any child conceived would die. Death was not part of God's original plan.

That is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

What IS relevant is pointing out the fact that a married couple OBEYING GOD were rendered unclean.
So clearly unclean is NOT the same as SINFUL.

 

[Dave-W]

So basically fornication is having sex with another before marriage.

1 Corinthians 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

"To avoid PORNIA...." Do not get hung up in an english translation. BTW - "touch" ἅπτομαι means to kindle up a fire (Thayers).

DaveW-Ohev has verified that fornication can mean more than just sex before marriage, but I would always refer to fornication as sex with another before marriage.

Why water down the definition?

No. I do not equate the sex drive as an infirmity in the flesh when it is in the marriage.

In marriage, you are one flesh and therefore not really considered as separate to be having sex with another before marriage.

Otherwise, the sex drive is a sin because it is operating outside the confines of marriage where the sinner has not been made one with another. So in that incident, the so called "sex drive" which has been created for multiplying in building the family line, as seen as a "sex drive" outside of marriage, is the infirmity in the flesh.

So how does this gift become infirmity? Where does the bible say this? Paul said in 1 Cor 7 (to women btw) that it is better to marry than to burn. No where is it even hinted at that God will take away that burn (his gifts are not taken back EVER. Rom 11.29) or that He will even diminish it or that it is of the flesh. That is ENTIRELY a man-constructed doctrine that is FALSE.

Calling a GOOD gift from God to be a work of the flesh seems to border on this warning:

Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

 

[TheBarrd]

Ask them to explain what uncleanness is when it is listed as a work of the flesh and among the sex sins then before going off to those other kinds of works of the flesh.

Some will say that fornication is just referring to prostitution so that they can continue to have sex before marriage, but they are still sinning in God's eye.



Whatever feeds the lust is what a believer is sowing towards and will reap corruption since God is not mocked and the infirmity that is in the flesh has been mentioned in the scripture in the N.T. by Paul as something to bring under submission along with our sinful thoughts to think on good things with His help.



If the "believers" go around telling people what they are doing in their sinful lifetsyle, then you are obligated to correct them in Christ's love and with His help.



I would say that the brother or sister cannot tell me to mind my own business if they are making it publicly known AND teaching others that it is okay. Jesus taught His disciples to make disciples of others as they too are to make disciples of others.



The example is given about judging one another in correcting one another to the point of excommunication if they do not "repent". You were insinuating in previous replies that you believed we are not supposed to judge any one.



And what are you doing or attempting to do here with a reply like this? Judging me as in correcting me by telling me not to correct others? Kind of a conundrum, isn't it?



Time to talk about the birds & the bees and how much we need Jesus as our Good Shepherd to follow Him and not run the way the world runs.

Believe it or not, christian "fornicators" will see christian masturbaters that are trying to correct them from fornication, will say to the christian masturbaters, "Was masturbation good enough for you?" in a sarcastic manner as if God does not really expect us to control our urges but just give in to them since God must made us that way.

It is a war of principality in wrestling with dark forces in the heavenly realm as there are "unclean spirits" about as mentioned several times in the scripture in the N.T. Do we really need to side step this issue on account that mankind used a different word today of masturbation from what the Bible used uncleanness for, back in the Biblical day?

But only God can help them to see the truth, but if they are blinded to it, and they go around making it publicly known, then the discipline of discipleship needs to be done.

Somehow, I doubt that people are running around telling everyone, "Guess what? I touch. And you can, too!"
If you know someone who is doing that, by all means, get him some mental help.]
Otherwise, I would definitely suggest that we not pry into people's private lives.
Whether or not someone is masturbating is and ought to remain between them and their God.
God created our bodies, intending that sex should be pleasurable.
How can it be a sin to glory in His creation?

 

[Tellastory]

That is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

What IS relevant is pointing out the fact that a married couple OBEYING GOD were rendered unclean.
So clearly unclean is NOT the same as SINFUL.

Correct. Uncleanness can be applied towards hygiene, but then you have to decide what uncleanness is when it is listed as a work of the flesh which is sinful and unless a believer repents of it with His help, he risks losing his first inheritance and be left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event to be received later on along with the rest of the prodigal sons that had given up their first inheritance for wild living, even though there will be weeping & gnashing of teeth over the loss of that first inheritance for being left behind.

 

[Tellastory]

"To avoid PORNIA...." Do not get hung up in an english translation. BTW - "touch" ἅπτομαι means to kindle up a fire (Thayers).

Kind of like.... when a man take fire into his bosom & be burning?

Why water down the definition?

How the word is used in the sentence defines its usage in which we are talking about sex with another person before marriage in context of the message.

So how does this gift become infirmity? Where does the bible say this? Paul said in 1 Cor 7 (to women btw) that it is better to marry than to burn. No where is it even hinted at that God will take away that burn (his gifts are not taken back EVER. Rom 11.29) or that He will even diminish it or that it is of the flesh. That is ENTIRELY a man-constructed doctrine that is FALSE.

If masturbation was allowed, where is the danger of burning then? It would be relieved, even if it is temporary, and so there can be no warning of burning unless one seeks to fulfill the lust thereof by masturbating to be free of that burning.

Calling a GOOD gift from God to be a work of the flesh seems to border on this warning:

Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

You have yet to prove that God calls masturbation "good" before you can apply Isaiah 5:20.

And you are still not defining what uncleanness is when it is listed as sinful among the ranks of other sexual sins as a work of the flesh.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[TheBarrd]

Correct. Uncleanness can be applied towards hygiene, but then you have to decide what uncleanness is when it is listed as a work of the flesh which is sinful and unless a believer repents of it with His help, he risks losing his first inheritance and be left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event to be received later on along with the rest of the prodigal sons that had given up their first inheritance for wild living, even though there will be weeping & gnashing of teeth over the loss of that first inheritance for being left behind.

So, the guy who masturbates still goes to heaven sooner or later, then?

 

[Tellastory]

Somehow, I doubt that people are running around telling everyone, "Guess what? I touch. And you can, too!" If you know someone who is doing that, by all means, get him some mental help.]

A church asst pastor took a video to share with the youth group of another pastor giving a presentation that masturbation was okay except under 5 conditions. The church was undergoing a subtle change within of accepting social values to bring more people in.

Otherwise, I would definitely suggest that we not pry into people's private lives.

Well, doing something like that is akin to a busybody and that is to be discouraged too because that would create a Pharisitical attitude of looking to catch believers sinning.

So believe it or not, some believers are open aboutsins like that because the world says it is okay and the churches are compromising along with the world on that issue, and they would be wrong Biblically.

Whether or not someone is masturbating is and ought to remain between them and their God.

One would think, but sin corrupts and it brings others into the fold.

God created our bodies, intending that sex should be pleasurable.
How can it be a sin to glory in His creation?

If we take your reasoning, how can having sex outside of marriage ever be wrong?

Sex is for married couples. Sex was designed by God to be engaged with another in holy matrimony for the purpose of multiplying in building the family line.

 

[Tellastory]

So, the guy who masturbates still goes to heaven sooner or later, then?

If he is a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God had raised Him from the dead, yes, BUT the Father will chasten every child He receives.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. 12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; 13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. 14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: 15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; 16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. 17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears. 18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, 19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: 20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: 21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake 22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. 25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: 29 For our God is a consuming fire.

There are two inheritance; the first one is celestiel where the elect are made unto angels and never marry any more and can never die. They have a place in the city of God that comes down from Heaven.

Those left behind will not have a place in the city of God. They will have a terrestriel inheritance in serving the King of kings as priests and kings in His kingdom spread out all over the world for the coming generation that know Him not before that coming generation is tested for a small season when Satan is released from the pit after a thousand years. The second death will have no power over those saints coming out of the great tribulation which is highly suggestive that they can die, unlike the first inheritance, in which case, those terestriel saints could die trying to protect their family line during that small season when Satan has been released.

It is then after that last battle when Satan is defeated, is when death will be cast into the lake of fire and no one will die any more.

So I reckon one has to decide if they want the first inheritance or not.

Psalm 27:4 One thing have I desired of the Lord, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the Lord, and to enquire in his temple. 5 For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.

Sounds good to be with the Lord rather than be left behind.

Luke 12: 40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

I can see where the weeping & gnashing of teeth comes in.

I am trusting Jesus Christ as my Friend and personal Good Shepherd in keeping me from falling into sin and to present me faultless to His glory and to the glory of God the Father.

 

[TheBarrd]

A church asst pastor took a video to share with the youth group of another pastor giving a presentation that masturbation was okay except under 5 conditions. The church was undergoing a subtle change within of accepting social values to bring more people in.



Well, doing something like that is akin to a busybody and that is to be discouraged too because that would create a Pharisitical attitude of looking to catch believers sinning.

So believe it or not, some believers are open aboutsins like that because the world says it is okay and the churches are compromising along with the world on that issue, and they would be wrong Biblically.



One would think, but sin corrupts and it brings others into the fold.



If we take your reasoning, how can having sex outside of marriage ever be wrong?

Sex is for married couples. Sex was designed by God to be engaged with another in holy matrimony for the purpose of multiplying in building the family line.

I guess we're just going to have to disagree...

 

[Meowzltov]

A church asst pastor took a video to share with the youth group of another pastor giving a presentation that masturbation was okay except under 5 conditions.

I'm just curious what the 5 conditions were. Do you remember them? Or some of them?

 

[Meowzltov]

So clearly unclean is NOT the same as SINFUL.

Quite true. Being ritually unclean has NOTHING to do with being sinful.

 

[TheBarrd]

I'm just curious what the 5 conditions were. Do you remember them? Or some of them?

I have to admit...I'm kinda curious about that myself...

 

[Tina W]

Of course it's not a sin, it's natural.

 

[dayhiker]

The only reason or time that I can see that masturbation is sinful is if a guy is married and he masturbates rather than loving his wife.
When Jesus talked about lusting after another man's wife, its the lusting that is wrong not the masturbation, which the Bible never says is wrong.

Uncleanness in the Bible isn't about sin or hygiene even. Lev. is a book about how Israel is going to be separated from the nations. Its about how do you show your loyalty or citizenship to other people. The main way is of course by not having anything to do with idols. But every nation had these purity rituals. We still have these retuals today. Its call a passport. When we go places we don't have to dress a certain way, eat certain foods we just carry our passport. Uncleanness isn't about sin its about who do we belong to. If we confess Jesus before men we are clean because Jesus is our righteousness.

 

[Tellastory]

I guess we're just going to have to disagree...

I reckon so, sister.

 

[TheBarrd]

The only reason or time that I can see that masturbation is sinful is if a guy is married and he masturbates rather than loving his wife.
When Jesus talked about lusting after another man's wife, its the lusting that is wrong not the masturbation, which the Bible never says is wrong.

Uncleanness in the Bible isn't about sin or hygiene even. Lev. is a book about how Israel is going to be separated from the nations. Its about how do you show your loyalty or citizenship to other people. The main way is of course by not having anything to do with idols. But every nation had these purity rituals. We still have these retuals today. Its call a passport. When we go places we don't have to dress a certain way, eat certain foods we just carry our passport. Uncleanness isn't about sin its about who do we belong to. If we confess Jesus before men we are clean because Jesus is our righteousness.

I can't add anything to this, except to agree that wives also should love their husbands.

 

[Tellastory]

I'm just curious what the 5 conditions were. Do you remember them? Or some of them?

I do not recollect all of them, but the pastor in the video stated that doing masturbation in marriage is not to be practised, because the spouse is to meet the needs of the other as they are one flesh. ( I "think" he gave an exception to when the spouse is terminally ill or actually sick & not faking a headache to avoid sex. )

Also, he stated that masturbating in a group is not acceptable in God's eye either.

The only problem here is that he has no scripture validifying his specific conditions or restrictions & yet, all the while, ignoring how uncleanness as a work of the flesh has to be masturbation and nothing else.

He did say in the video that he hoped he was not teaching something that the Lord did not want him to teach, and so already, the Lord was working on his conscience, as he had doubts about what he was teaching.

So basically what he was teaching as those five conditions is a rationalization.

 

[Tellastory]

Of course it's not a sin, it's natural.

Kind of like homosexuality, and fornication, and adultery. It happens "naturally" also, and so just because it feels natural, it does not mean it is not sinful.

Can you explain what uncleanness is as listed as a work of the flesh?

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

How many would say that trying to stop masturbating has been a very hard thing to do? So is it really natural when your mind says no, but the physical urges say obey & give in?

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you:.....

Until those that disagree that masturbation is sinful, they need to define what uncleanness actually is as listed between fornication & lasciviousness as a sexual sin. I assure you, that uncleanness is not about hygiene.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Kind of like homosexuality, and fornication, and adultery. It happens "naturally" also, and so just because it feels natural, it does not mean it is not sinful.

Can you explain what uncleanness is as listed as a work of the flesh?

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

How many would say that trying to stop masturbating has been a very hard thing to do? So is it really natural when your mind says no, but the physical urges say obey & give in?

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you:.....

Until those that disagree that masturbation is sinful, they need to define what uncleanness actually is as listed between fornication & lasciviousness as a sexual sin. I assure you, that uncleanness is not about hygiene.

You should stop disagreeing with the rest of us, because after all, you are ordered to stop committing the sin of "variance" up there in your list.

 

[Tellastory]

You should stop disagreeing with the rest of us, because after all, you are ordered to stop committing the sin of "variance" up there in your list.

Until you define what that work of the flesh is that is called uncleanness, it is not variance. It is called Biblical correction and thus not giving any inch for rationalization to occur, no matter how many believers are following the wrong crowd on this issue.

How many Bible believing christians in the South were lynching black people just because they believed it was the right thing to do and "everybody" was doing it? And so it still doesn't make that right nor masturbation either.