The Duggar Family

[Achilles6129]

Hello all,

Recently there's been much in the news about the Duggar family, what with the allegations of the older brother's abuse and so on. I wanted to see what everyone on here thought about their theology, their TV show, etc. - whatever else. I do have a suspicion, however, and that is as follows:

It should be no secret that the vast majority of people in the West do not like the real Bible. I think that even many modern Christians also do not like the real Bible or real Biblical theology. Indeed, people enjoy deriding those who take the Bible seriously. I think that part of the reason this show was put on television (and I have to admit I haven't seen even one episode) was to give people an outlet to antagonize and attack Fundamentalist Christianity (i.e., those who take the Bible seriously and study it a lot). In other words, part of the reason this show was put on television was to show people how "absurd" Fundamentalist Christianity is.

Any thoughts?

 

[seeking.IAM]

Television is about making money. The reason this show is on television is that producers thought there would be a market for it that would make them money. It is as simple as that. One needs look no further for an ulterior motive. The real question is why so people should be attracted to a show like this in the first place...but the same can be asked about a lot of television content. The world will go on if their time in the spotlight is over.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello all,

Recently there's been much in the news about the Duggar family, what with the allegations of the older brother's abuse and so on. I wanted to see what everyone on here thought about their theology, their TV show, etc. - whatever else. I do have a suspicion, however, and that is as follows:

It should be no secret that the vast majority of people in the West do not like the real Bible. I think that even many modern Christians also do not like the real Bible or real Biblical theology. Indeed, people enjoy deriding those who take the Bible seriously. I think that part of the reason this show was put on television (and I have to admit I haven't seen even one episode) was to give people an outlet to antagonize and attack Fundamentalist Christianity (i.e., those who take the Bible seriously and study it a lot). In other words, part of the reason this show was put on television was to show people how "absurd" Fundamentalist Christianity is.

Any thoughts?

I think it is interesting that Christians being persecuted around the world seem to matter 'nill to nothing in Hollywood and in the politics of making partners with countries still trying to kill Christians in their own domain for daring to admit to having faith in Christ.

 

[Rhamiel]

what Josh Duggar did was sick and wrong
the family said that he got treatment
I hope that he and his victims got the treatment they needed

the police knew about the abuse at the time it happened, the DA and the family agreed that Josh would do better to have psychological treatment rather then go to trial and then if found guilty, a juvenile detention center

he was 14 when this happened, so clearly not just a kid, but also definitely not an adult

I think it is kind of sick how the media is brining all this stuff up again 13 years after it happened
it is harmful both to Josh and to his victims to dredge up the past like this
no one is really talking about the poor girls who were molested
the focus is not on helping the victims, it is on hurting Josh

 

[topcare]

The media just hates the Duggars and Christianity and so does the sheriff who released the report. They got railroaded but we should not be surprised because the world will hate Christians.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I would imagine that the Duggars and their "church community" are on the extreme end of

what Josh Duggar did was sick and wrong
the family said that he got treatment
I hope that he and his victims got the treatment they needed

the police knew about the abuse at the time it happened, the DA and the family agreed that Josh would do better to have psychological treatment rather then go to trial and then if found guilty, a juvenile detention center

he was 14 when this happened, so clearly not just a kid, but also definitely not an adult

I think it is kind of sick how the media is brining all this stuff up again 13 years after it happened
it is harmful both to Josh and to his victims to dredge up the past like this
no one is really talking about the poor girls who were molested
the focus is not on helping the victims, it is on hurting Josh

I think a lot of these issues stem from the nature of churches like theirs. This Patheos article spells it out well. The fact that [their church community] holds such extreme views about the rest of the world means that they don't create a safe space for things like this to be sorted out. Instead it gets buried so that they can save face.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Nonsense. He deserves no slack. He was a teenager molesting a much younger and weaker innocent. He got special treatment because of who his parents were and who they knew. If he was your kid or mine, he would have been dealt with quite differently. All the while his parents are reported to be going around making hypocritical comments about child molesters. We should not dismiss this out of some misguided perspective that this constitutes Christian persecution. It does not.

 

[Rhamiel]

I would imagine that the Duggars and their "church community" are on the extreme end of


I think a lot of these issues stem from the nature of churches like theirs. This Patheos article spells it out well. The fact that [their church community] holds such extreme views about the rest of the world means that they don't create a safe space for things like this to be sorted out. Instead it gets buried so that they can save face.

thanks for the link
"does not create a safe space for things like this to be sorted out"
but it looks like it was sorted out?
two of Josh's victims have spoken out, they said that after the abuse had taken place, Josh went away for counseling, that all of the girls who had been molested also received counseling, and when Josh came home, there were new rules and regulations to help prevent situations like that from coming up again

... do the IFB really think that black people bear the Mark of Cain? that was from the link..... that seems crazy....
some other things in the link also seem to be hyperbole.... not sure

 

[James Is Back]

Don't they belong to the Quiverfull Church?

 

[Gnarwhal]

thanks for the link
"does not create a safe space for things like this to be sorted out"
but it looks like it was sorted out?
two of Josh's victims have spoken out, they said that after the abuse had taken place, Josh went away for counseling, that all of the girls who had been molested also received counseling, and when Josh came home, there were new rules and regulations to help prevent situations like that from coming up again

... do the IFB really think that black people bear the Mark of Cain? that was from the link..... that seems crazy....
some other things in the link also seem to be hyperbole.... not sure

From what I understand, they dealt with it completely "in-house", and I believe they didn't tell anybody else until the statute of limitations had passed. Plus the officer whom they told, and whom merely gave Josh a "stern talking to" was himself an abuser (he's serving time for owning/creating child pornography).

It is a common thread in IFB's to have an extreme aversion to the outside world that borders on cult behavior (Westboro is a prime example). Therefore they look within their own walls for every sort of profession and specialty that one might need in life - including expert counseling to work with a teen who's molested young girls. There's some major flaws in that worldview, to be sure.

There has been a lot of conversation about this on the Reddit's /r/christianity... pretty good thoughts too from a lot of people.

 

[Rhamiel]

this is just what the victims said, it seems like it was dealt with in a responsible manner

 

[Gnarwhal]

thanks for the link
"does not create a safe space for things like this to be sorted out"
but it looks like it was sorted out?
two of Josh's victims have spoken out, they said that after the abuse had taken place, Josh went away for counseling, that all of the girls who had been molested also received counseling, and when Josh came home, there were new rules and regulations to help prevent situations like that from coming up again

... do the IFB really think that black people bear the Mark of Cain? that was from the link..... that seems crazy....
some other things in the link also seem to be hyperbole.... not sure

I've heard it before yes. There's an IFB church in my town that keeps itself pretty well closed off, but I've heard of people who have visited there and heard some racially tinged teachings from the pulpit. Also, I believe Shepard's Chapel, the infamous late night bible show (can we really call it televangelism?) is known to have preached that doctrine. People would write him about it and he'd back peddle, but in the grand scheme of things he stuck with it.

One thing I've learned over the years is that while the ABCUSA and SBC have moved forward in terms of their social thinking, IFB's tend to be the ones who stay behind and hold to those archaic doctrines and ideologies that say certain people are inferior to others and that certain people need to be marginalized in society.

Don't they belong to the Quiverfull Church?

I believe so, yes.

this is just what the victims said, it seems like it was dealt with in a responsible manner

Apparently there's some suspicion about these girls coming forward to defend him. Since the culture is very misogynistic, some speculate that these girls might have been coerced into explaining away the situation.

Here's some more info on their group from someone who went to the same church: I Could've Been A Duggar Wife.

 

[graceandpeace]

Well first of all, I resent the assertion in the OP that taking the Bible "seriously" means fundamentalist interpretations. Taking the Bible seriously means treating its texts honestly in the context of what we know from tradition & from scholarship. The "real Bible" is not what many in the West deride, its the sort of extremism represented by groups like the Duggars that turns people off.

And that's really what I think - the Duggars are extremists. Repressive rigidity is not a good Christian example. It's certainly not an example I'm interested in emulating. But no matter, their hypocrisy has just done more damage to Christianity's image in the U.S. How dare they insinuate that transgender people might be predators when they were raising a predator on the hush-hush in their own home! It's disgusting & people are rightfully outraged.

I genuinely hope Josh doesn't re-offend, but everything about the situation was handled wrong. I don't feel sorry for the parents. I do feel sorry for the victims.

 

[PaladinValer]

The Duggars did it to themselves.

 

[James Is Back]

I guess the Duggers Dug themselves a hole

Seriously though would you say this whole family is a cult or part of a cult?

 

[Celticflower]

The media builds up and the media tears down - all for your entertainment.

Honestly - other than having an insane number of kids (and first coming to the public eye when they were "gifted" a house and huge van by their community since they couldn't afford to house or transport themselves) what has this family done to warrant such attention?

 

[PaladinValer]

I guess the Duggers Dug themselves a hole

Seriously though would you say this whole family is a cult or part of a cult?

Their theology is abysmal, but no; they aren't a part of a cult or a cult themselves.

 

[Root of Jesse]

what Josh Duggar did was sick and wrong
the family said that he got treatment
I hope that he and his victims got the treatment they needed

the police knew about the abuse at the time it happened, the DA and the family agreed that Josh would do better to have psychological treatment rather then go to trial and then if found guilty, a juvenile detention center

he was 14 when this happened, so clearly not just a kid, but also definitely not an adult

I think it is kind of sick how the media is brining all this stuff up again 13 years after it happened
it is harmful both to Josh and to his victims to dredge up the past like this
no one is really talking about the poor girls who were molested
the focus is not on helping the victims, it is on hurting Josh

Sort of like how most (not all) of the priest child abuse happened 20 years ago, and yet still flares up when the Church goes against something secular America wants...

 

[Root of Jesse]

Nonsense. He deserves no slack. He was a teenager molesting a much younger and weaker innocent. He got special treatment because of who his parents were and who they knew. If he was your kid or mine, he would have been dealt with quite differently. All the while his parents are reported to be going around making hypocritical comments about child molesters. We should not dismiss this out of some misguided perspective that this constitutes Christian persecution. It does not.

Didn't get special treatment. His parents took him to the police to file the report. If it was my kid, and within my family, I'd have handled it similarly. If it was my kid and someone else's kid, different story.
Regarding your hypocrite comment, anyone who speaks out about anything morally wrong is a hypocrite. Does that mean we should all shut up and let evil happen? I don't think so.

 

[Achilles6129]

Television is about making money. The reason this show is on television is that producers thought there would be a market for it that would make them money. It is as simple as that. One needs look no further for an ulterior motive. The real question is why so people should be attracted to a show like this in the first place...but the same can be asked about a lot of television content. The world will go on if their time in the spotlight is over.

Right, it's about money, and what makes money. You articulated the real question well: why would so many people like a show like this in the first place? I believe that the answer to that question is that Biblical Fundamentalism is a curiosity (in a negative sense) to them.

Nonsense. He deserves no slack. He was a teenager molesting a much younger and weaker innocent. He got special treatment because of who his parents were and who they knew. If he was your kid or mine, he would have been dealt with quite differently.

I would agree that what he did is pretty bad, in my opinion. I don't know the whole story, so I can't judge whether or not his parents handled things appropriately. However, I will say that alot of people are probably going to think that the reason he did these things was because of his upbringing. I wouldn't agree with that sentiment.