Seal Clubbing

[nebulaJP]

Double post

 

[nebulaJP]

That's not how evolution works. It is, (except with a super high hypothetical mindset), impossible to encounter less evolved version of the same species in a given time spawn. Nor did I or would ever equate homo * to an animal specie.

Some other members of the Homo genus were contemporaries of ours. Note the number of years ago, or millions of years ago, each species lived. They were not all less evolved versions of us; some shared a common ancestor. There is very good circumstantial evidence that we encountered Neanderthals in Europe and drove them to extinction.

I am not saying you equated other homo to animal species. I did. Is that where you draw the line as to how you classify animal / human? At the genus level? Because normally 'human' only means homo sapiens and it even indicates that in the picture.

 

[nebulaJP]

The Christian Basis for Veganism

 

[Hank]

Some other members of the Homo genus were contemporaries of ours. Note the number of years ago, or millions of years ago, each species lived. They were not all less evolved versions of us; some shared a common ancestor. There is very good circumstantial evidence that we encountered Neanderthals in Europe and drove them to extinction.

I am not saying you equated other homo to animal species. I did. Is that where you draw the line as to how you classify animal / human? At the genus level? Because normally 'human' only means homo sapiens and it even indicates that in the picture.

You know we are getting off-topic here.

What would constitute intelligence? Silly but true events: My neighbor claims extra ordinary intelligence to his dog. I think other wise. He thinks I should not feed the birds during a hard winter. I like those birds, and look after them. He says I am a dumb, and since I am from that region, Neanderthal; perhaps soon to follow the fate of my ancestors.

If one can define a line, where the animal kingdom stops and homo realm starts, one found a clear distinction making the hypothesis in question nil. As I wrote before, you won.

 

[nebulaJP]

What would constitute intelligence? Silly but true events: My neighbor claims extra ordinary intelligence to his dog. I think other wise. He thinks I should not feed the birds during a hard winter. I like those birds, and look after them. He says I am a dumb, and since I am from that region, Neanderthal; perhaps soon to follow the fate of my ancestors.

If one can define a line, where the animal kingdom stops and homo realm starts, one found a clear distinction making the hypothesis in question nil. As I wrote before, you won.

The animal kingdom does not stop before it gets to us, we are in it:

Also, why does intelligence matter to this discussion? Many humans, such as toddlers and mentally disabled adults are not as intelligent as many animals.

 

[nebulaJP]

I'll end this. You win.
I shall burn all my furs for shame, I'll let my girl buy cheap coats from China and Bangladesh, because only slaves suffered producing those instead of our precious animals. And we'll hit the super market for vegetables, also harvested by cheap labour.

Do you consider your position morally justifiable (or even morally excusable) because of human rights issues - i.e. supposed superior working conditions and/or pay on fur farms or slaughterhouses vs. those in sweatshops or in plant agriculture? Because if so, I'd like to tell you, the former group doesn't have it all that great and in many cases it's worse.

Why Don't Vegans Care About People?

 

[nebulaJP]

What a great lecture about Animal Theology from a Catholic, vegan, animal rights activist. Wow!

 

[StephanieSomer]

Question....
Did Christ die on the cross for animals?

 

[nebulaJP]

Question....
Did Christ die on the cross for animals?

All of creation, no?

Colossians 1:20

Parallel Verses
New International Version
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

New Living Translation
and through him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of Christ's blood on the cross.

English Standard Version
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

New American Standard Bible
and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

King James Bible
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

 

[nebulaJP]

Also, God establishes a covenant with animals in Genesis chapter 9:

8Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9“I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10and with every living creature that was with you—the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you—every living creature on earth. 11I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.”

12And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.”

17So God said to Noah, “This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth.”

 

[nebulaJP]

To equate humans, made in the image of God, with animals, is inherently sacrilegious, since it is by extension equating God with animals..

So 'image of God' means ‘equal’ with God?

Aren’t we more equal to other ‘creatures’ than we are to God?

 

[nebulaJP]

Another covenant with animals. Quite interesting for God to make all these covenants with our natural resources.

Hosea 2:18

New International Version
In that day I will make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, the birds in the sky and the creatures that move along the ground. Bow and sword and battle I will abolish from the land, so that all may lie down in safety.

New Living Translation
On that day I will make a covenant with all the wild animals and the birds of the sky and the animals that scurry along the ground so they will not harm you. I will remove all weapons of war from the land, all swords and bows, so you can live unafraid in peace and safety.

English Standard Version
And I will make for them a covenant on that day with the beasts of the field, the birds of the heavens, and the creeping things of the ground. And I will abolish the bow, the sword, and war from the land, and I will make you lie down in safety.

New American Standard Bible
"In that day I will also make a covenant for them With the beasts of the field, The birds of the sky And the creeping things of the ground. And I will abolish the bow, the sword and war from the land, And will make them lie down in safety.

King James Bible
And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.

 

[nebulaJP]

This video is really good. It covers nearly every verse that has been discussed.

 

[StephanieSomer]

Also, God establishes a covenant with animals in Genesis chapter 9:

8Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9“I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10and with every living creature that was with you—the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you—every living creature on earth. 11I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.”

12And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.”

17So God said to Noah, “This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth.”

Ok. And what are the promises of that covenant?

 

[nebulaJP]

Ok. And what are the promises of that covenant?

???

11I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.”

15I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.

 

[StephanieSomer]

???

11I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.”

15I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.

Exactly! So, where are the promises to the animals that God will disallow them being eaten by man?

 

[nebulaJP]

Exactly! So, where are the promises to the animals that God will disallow them being eaten by man?

I didn't say there were any promises like that. My point was that God cares about HIS ANIMALS and makes covenants with them directly. They are not to be considered so flippantly as if they are nothing more than food and supplies for humans. They are GOD's CREATURES.

 

[StephanieSomer]

I didn't say there were any promises like that. My point was that God cares about HIS ANIMALS and makes covenants with them directly. They are not to be considered so flippantly as if they are nothing more than food and supplies for humans. They are GOD's CREATURES.

And vegetables aren't?

 

[nebulaJP]

And vegetables aren't?

No. Vegetables aren't flesh. They are not 'creatures', so cannot be 'God's creatures' and there are no covenants with them.

 

[StephanieSomer]

In fact, a good shepherd dies for his sheep! That's right.


No. Vegetables aren't flesh. They are not 'creatures', so cannot be 'God's creatures' and there are no covenants with them.

Flesh isn't a requirement to be a creation of God. A creature is any part of the creation that has life. God has given man all parts of that creation as food. Animals as well as plants. Where did He ever repeal that?