Seal Clubbing

[GrimKingGrim]

How do you know what they think about it? And what difference would their opinion make?

Because most aggressive animals will kill you should you encroach on them. Go ahead and approach a moose without a gun and ask for its antlers.

Those with defense mindsets will run.

They do not like you and do not want to be used for your needs.

 

[nebulaJP]

By the way, no one has yet made the case for not cutting your lawn. When do we get to "Grass has feelings, too, and it deeply resents being victimized, etc.?"

Grass does resent being victimized, all plants do. The smell of fresh cut grass is a distress call to predators of insects. However, it is morally acceptable to victimize, ‘things’ that are not like us on the following tree. Also, keep in mind that plants have no known apparatus for feeling pain, like a nervous system and no reason to feel pain since they can’t physically escape from it by running away:

I hope you eat only organic veggies.

Earthworms and other soil life, including bacteria, have no chance against the plow, disc, harrow, and acid treated fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides as the fields are prepare to grow.......vegetables!

Not just the organisms you mentioned, also, rabbits, mice and other small animals are killed by farm equipment in plant agriculture. However, the intent is not to kill animals. When we build a road through a state, the intent is not to kill humans, who will over the years die in accidents on that road.

 

[Conscious Z]

The point is that man is less 'cruel' about killing animals than animals themselves. You can hardly impute immorality to animals killing other animals.

But why is that fact relevant to this argument if it is not relevant to the morality of killing animals (which you've conceded)?

So if one isn't conscious of it being put to death isn't immoral? Don't we put criminals to sleep before the lethal drugs are injected?

In the worm's case I'm talking about feeling pain, not being aware of the exact cause of it.

I'm not following your argument here. "Consciousness" means there is something it is like to be that creature. There is something "inside" that is doing the experiencing. There is nothing it is like to be a rock. There is something it is like to be a puppy. The evidence suggests there is nothing it is like to be a worm.

Animals are a bigger part of our livelihood than just food. We use almost every part for some productive purpose, from leather to medicines.

The vast majority of those uses are optional, and our choosing to use animals for those purposes would disappear if we didn't also eat meat. Eating meat makes animal products far cheaper than they would be if animals were raised solely for those auxiliary purposes.

How far are you willing to take this argument? To the jungles of the world where people subsist on the critters they can kill and eat? And where do you draw the line between being fully aware that they are being killed and the 'stimulus' of just feeling some pain?

People who don't have a choice in eating meat aren't unethical in eating meat.

I'm not sure what being fully aware of being killed and the stimulus of feeling pain have to do with things. See my note about consciousness above.

The argument I am suggesting is that we shouldn't cause suffering to conscious creatures if it can reasonably be avoided. Eating meat causes suffering to conscious creature, and it can reasonably be avoided, thus we shouldn't eat meat.

 

[Conscious Z]

Are you sure about that? Not only is Asia particularly famous for dog recipes, as well as cat and rat, but apparently Canada has a taste for Dog.

Dog meat legal, health inspector says - Canada - CBC News

I was repeating a claim made by KitKatMatt. It's irrelevant to the discussion, so I didn't want to run down that path.

Everyone knows that some people eat dog.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

I was repeating a claim made by KitKatMatt. It's irrelevant to the discussion, so I didn't want to run down that path.

Everyone knows that some people eat dog.

[Restrained Obvious Joke]

 

[nebulaJP]

Here for reference, plants and animals are broken down. We have a moral responsibility to animals because their pain is so obvious to us. Example: any mammal would react to a hot branding iron on its skin in very nearly the same way a human would.

 

[nebulaJP]

Also, I am not up to date on the hunting regulations of seals, but AFAIK killing a mother who has offspring still dependent on her is poaching. Which is greatly inhumane.

Please watch this video:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1E_X6c4c6A

 

[KitKatMatt]

Can you summarize it? I can't play the video.

 

[nebulaJP]

Can you summarize it? I can't play the video.

Most of the seals killed are pups.

 

[KitKatMatt]

Thank you.

I'd have to know a lot more before forming a knowledgeable, in depth opinion on it though. When I originally answered the question, it was a much more simplified answer to the OP.

 

[nebulaJP]

And also, it's not a 'hunt'. The seal pups have no chance of getting away.

 

[Desk trauma]

And also, it's not a 'hunt'. The seal pups have no chance of getting away.

You have made this point twice now, why does that matter? Why are ineffective methods of killing wild animals more palatable if the killing is the issue?

 

[nebulaJP]

Here is a shorter video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw8MKd__1L0

 

[nebulaJP]

You have made this point twice now, why does that matter? Why are ineffective methods of killing wild animals more palatable if the killing is the issue?

This time, I was describing the content of the video and not really making a point. Please quote where I made the point the first time because I don't remember what it was in reference to.

 

[Desk trauma]

This time, I was describing the content of the video and not really making a point. Please quote where I made the point the first time because I don't remember what it was in reference to.

Here you go:

In nature the prey always has a fighting chance of getting away which is not the case in a slaughterhouse.

 

[Hank]

Please watch this video:

No thanks.
I freed myself from religion, so as not to end up following cults, like Hinduisms or this Buddhism schtuff. You have no idea how sick and tired I am of people wanting other people to follow their ethics and moralities, because they oh so high level, compared to ehm who knows how to say this politly.

I am a human. I am a predator. I own fur, my girl owns fur, we slaughter, we eat meat - period.

 

[nebulaJP]

Here you go:

So I was answering:

Man is probably less brutal than nature regarding killing of critters.

The mechanized or large scale commercial killing is more brutal to me than predation in the wild or primitive, subsistence hunting by humans. It is more brutal when the prey has no chance of escape. That's just the way I feel about it. Maybe it's because if I was in that situation, I would at least want to have a chance to get away from the danger.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Believers have permission from God to kill and eat animals.

Non-believers have the tacit permission from science to act as evolved top predators.

Mankind depends on animals to sustain human life, especially in regard to protein.

The morality of it isn't an issue to the broad majority.

 

[KitKatMatt]

Science doesn't give "permission" to anyone or anything. Just sayin'.

 

[nebulaJP]

No thanks.
I freed myself from religion, so as not to end up following cults, like Hinduisms or this Buddhism schtuff. You have no idea how sick and tired I am of people wanting other people to follow their ethics and moralities, because they oh so high level, compared to ehm who knows how to say this politly.

I am a human. I am a predator. I own fur, my girl owns fur, we slaughter, we eat meat - period.

What about the short one?