Seal Clubbing

[Albion]

Animals can be victimized, can't they?

If that's the correct word for it, but other posters have made the point that there are conditions, rules, etc. and that hunting is not without limitations imposed by society.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Animals can be victimized, can't they? And are they not weaker than us?

Man is probably less brutal than nature regarding killing of critters.

 

[nebulaJP]

If that's the correct word for it, but other posters have made the point that there are conditions, rules, etc. and that hunting is not without limitations imposed by society.

It's a non-point. The strong make up rules about how the weak are victimized. That doesn't make it moral.

 

[KitKatMatt]

What is the difference between “harvesting” and “the strong victimizing the weak”?

I don't see harvesting animals humanely as "the strong victimizing the weak". I see it as an intelligent predator using its smarts and tools to provide for itself and others.

That being said, I think humans can also victimize animals in certain respects. Factory farming is one of the huge things that comes to mind. We have a lot of inhumane practices that need to be stopped.

 

[nebulaJP]

Man is probably less brutal than nature regarding killing of critters.

In nature the prey always has a fighting chance of getting away which is not the case in a slaughterhouse.

 

[Albion]

It's a non-point.

In my opinion, it is directly relevant to what you asked me. Victimization is a function of the circumstances--unless you are going to insist that ANY death of ANY animal is a matter of him/it being victimized. Well, we do have limitations on hunting, so it's not correct to call every harvesting of animals, under all circumstances, "victimization."

The strong make up rules about how the weak are victimized. That doesn't make it moral.

I covered this above. And again, animals are not humans, even if you want to picture them that way.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It's a non-point. The strong make up rules about how the weak are victimized. That doesn't make it moral.

Do you view yourself as a type of 'prey species' because you are a vegan?

 

[Albion]

In nature the prey always has a fighting chance of getting away which is not the case in a slaughterhouse.

Since when did "victimization" become a matter of how high the chances were that the victim could escape? It's true that, in nature, the strong kill and (sometimes) eat the weaker in much less "humane" ways than go on in even our slaughterhouses.

 

[nebulaJP]

I don't see harvesting animals humanely as "the strong victimizing the weak". I see it as an intelligent predator using its smarts and tools to provide for itself and others.

That being said, I think humans can also victimize animals in certain respects. Factory farming is one of the huge things that comes to mind. We have a lot of inhumane practices that need to be stopped.

We should rise above being mere predators. Our ability to empathize with suffering animals (such as a seal pup who has just watched her mother bludgeoned to death) should make us stop exploiting them for profit.

 

[JustMeSee]

Shooting them is apparently more common. My concern is with the massive number that are killed. Humans have a pretty bad track record when it comes to filling demand over available supply.

Being an omnivore with a decent knowledge of farm animal abuse, I am a poor judge of this ethical dilemma.

 

[nebulaJP]

In my opinion, it is directly relevant to what you asked me. Victimization is a function of the circumstances--unless you are going to insist that ANY death of ANY animal is a matter of him/it being victimized. Well, we do have limitations on hunting, so it's not correct to call every harvesting of animals, under all circumstances, "victimization."


I covered this above. And again, animals are not humans, even if you want to picture them that way.

Any time any animal or plant, bacterium, whatever is killed by any other, there is a victim and a victimizer. The word "victim" is not reserved for humans.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

I enjoy seal clubbing

Those Pinnipeds sure know how to have a good time!

 

[GrimKingGrim]

It's clearly wrong by the way before someone takes me seriously

 

[KitKatMatt]

We should rise above being mere predators. Our ability to empathize with suffering animals (such as a seal pup who has just watched her mother bludgeoned to death) should make us stop exploiting them for profit.

You are free to become whatever you'd like.

I am fine being an omnivore and predator.

Also, I am not up to date on the hunting regulations of seals, but AFAIK killing a mother who has offspring still dependent on her is poaching. Which is greatly inhumane.

 

[nebulaJP]

Since when did "victimization" become a matter of how high the chances were that the victim could escape? It's true that, in nature, the strong kill and (sometimes) eat the weaker in much less "humane" ways than go on in even our slaughterhouses.

It never became a matter of how high those chances were. This isn’t about victimization alone. I victimize bacteria when I wash my hands, but I have no moral responsibility to them. If I can recognize joy or distress in an animal, I have a relatively high moral responsibility to it. By this logic, I have a higher moral responsibility to a seal than I do to a lobster and a higher responsibility to a lobster than to an insect etc.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

I'm really a nature guy so killing seals of all things would make me sad.

Which is very hypocritical of me to say because I don't mind slaughterhouses being what they are.

I'd say killing seals for luxury is messed up based on my own accords

 

[He is Risen 72]

God created animals for man to use; all animals, in whatever way we see fit, they are God’s gift to us. God even made clothing for Adam and Eve out of animal skins to replace the PLANT based clothing that Adam and Eve fashioned in order to show us the superiority of leather and fur over plant fibers.

 

[Desk trauma]

In nature the prey always has a fighting chance of getting away which is not the case in a slaughterhouse.

True, there is a possibility that the prey will escape the predator but it's flatly absurd to say that a more humane death is to be found in nature. Compared to a well run slaughter house, say one use systems designed by Temple Grandin, any death awaiting an animal in the wild is much more cruel.

 

[Desk trauma]

Any time any animal or plant, bacterium, whatever is killed by any other, there is a victim and a victimizer. The word "victim" is not reserved for humans.

I thought Catholic guilt was bad, then I found out about Vegan guilt.

 

[Albion]

Any time any animal or plant, bacterium, whatever is killed by any other, there is a victim and a victimizer. The word "victim" is not reserved for humans.

Then you are using the word in a way that doesn't shed any light on the topic here or lead us to think that any particular way of handling the matter is better than the other.

So here's my suggestion. Those people who find hunting offensive should avoid doing any hunting, just like vegans choose not to eat meat. And that's all there is to it.