So a Christian Friend of mine likes Adolf Hitler...

[Akibahara]

Alright, here's my dilemma: A good Baptist friend of mine loves Adolf Hitler--not his antisemitism (ironically enough, he's pro-Israel. We both share anti-Islamic ideas)--but how he transformed Germany into a "moral" country. He stated before Hitler Germany was deeply amoral and was widely accepting of homosexuality in Weimar Germany. He also loves the order and militarism of the Third Reich compared to the United States today.

What else should I say to him? The only verse that comes to mind is Proverbs 3:31- Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways.

 

[keith99]

Well you could point out that the traditional Military despised Hitler. You could point out that homosexuality was condemned unless one was a loyal party member. And as far as I know his idea that Germany was immoral before Hitler is garbage.

EDIT: And Hitler openly having a mistress hardly speaks for him as a defender of traditional morality.

 

[durangodawood]

Well you could point out that the traditional Military despised Hitler. You could point out that homosexuality was condemned unless one was a loyal party member. And as far as I know his idea that Germany was immoral before Hitler is garbage.

EDIT: And Hitler openly having a mistress hardly speaks for him as a defender of traditional morality.

Even if the friend got facts about Germany and Hitler all wrong, he's still possessed by fascist idealism.

Thats the real problem.

 

[True Scotsman]

Alright, here's my dilemma: A good Baptist friend of mine loves Adolf Hitler--not his antisemitism (ironically enough, he's pro-Israel. We both share anti-Islamic ideas)--but how he transformed Germany into a "moral" country. He stated before Hitler Germany was deeply amoral and was widely accepting of homosexuality in Weimar Germany. He also loves the order and militarism of the Third Reich compared to the United States today.

What else should I say to him? The only verse that comes to mind is Proverbs 3:31- Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways.

Then why doesn't your friend move to North Korea? Same basic kind of government there.

In all seriousness, Nazism and Christianity both hold the same fundamental premise, that man has no right to live for his own sake. That man must live for the sake of others. The "other" is different in Christianity but it doesn't change the philosophical meaning of the principle.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Alright, here's my dilemma: A good Baptist friend of mine loves Adolf Hitler--not his antisemitism (ironically enough, he's pro-Israel. We both share anti-Islamic ideas)--but how he transformed Germany into a "moral" country. He stated before Hitler Germany was deeply amoral and was widely accepting of homosexuality in Weimar Germany. He also loves the order and militarism of the Third Reich compared to the United States today.

What else should I say to him? The only verse that comes to mind is Proverbs 3:31- Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways.

Since when do moral countries engage in genocide? or idol worship?
How does this friend feel about the fact that Hitler committed suicide?

 

[bhsmte]

Alright, here's my dilemma: A good Baptist friend of mine loves Adolf Hitler--not his antisemitism (ironically enough, he's pro-Israel. We both share anti-Islamic ideas)--but how he transformed Germany into a "moral" country. He stated before Hitler Germany was deeply amoral and was widely accepting of homosexuality in Weimar Germany. He also loves the order and militarism of the Third Reich compared to the United States today.

What else should I say to him? The only verse that comes to mind is Proverbs 3:31- Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways.

I would encourage him to research objective historical sources, in regards to Hitler's Germany.

That may enlighten him and it is always best to learn on your own, rather than someone just telling you that you are wrong.

 

[essentialsaltes]

And as far as I know his idea that Germany was immoral before Hitler is garbage.

Weimar-era Berlin did have its charms...

" Thrill-seekers came to the city in search of adventure, and booksellers sold many editions of guide books to Berlin's erotic night entertainment venues. There were an estimated 500 such establishments, that included a large number of homosexual venues for men and for lesbians; sometimes transvestites of one or both genders were admitted, otherwise there were at least 5 known establishments that were exclusively for a transvestite clientele.[40] There were also several nudist venues. Berlin also had a museum of sexuality during the Weimar period, at Dr. Magnus Hirschfeld's Institute of Sexology.[41] These were nearly all closed when the Nazi regime became a dictatorship in 1933."

 

[Akibahara]

Since when do moral countries engage in genocide? or idol worship?
How does this friend feel about the fact that Hitler committed suicide?

It's funny you mention that. He said to me, and I paraphrase, "If Hitler didn't kill the Jews, I would be 100% National Socialist today." He oftentimes points out the depraved culture in 21st Century USA in comparison to Nazi Germany. That's one of his biggest "pluses" toward Hitler.

He also believes if Hitler won WWII, we wouldn't be in the mess we are today--morally. In return, I point out Christianity would probably go underground, too. As Hitler and his cronies were vehemently anti-Christian. :/

Weimar-era Berlin did have its charms...

" Thrill-seekers came to the city in search of adventure, and booksellers sold many editions of guide books to Berlin's erotic night entertainment venues. There were an estimated 500 such establishments, that included a large number of homosexual venues for men and for lesbians; sometimes transvestites of one or both genders were admitted, otherwise there were at least 5 known establishments that were exclusively for a transvestite clientele.[40] There were also several nudist venues. Berlin also had a museum of sexuality during the Weimar period, at Dr. Magnus Hirschfeld's Institute of Sexology.[41] These were nearly all closed when the Nazi regime became a dictatorship in 1933."

Exactly. My above quote pretty much sums up his beliefs.

 

[keith99]

It's funny you mention that. He said to me, and I paraphrase, "If Hitler didn't kill the Jews, I would be 100% National Socialist today." He oftentimes points out the depraved culture in 21st Century USA in comparison to Nazi Germany. That's one of his biggest "pluses" toward Hitler.

He also believes if Hitler won WWII, we wouldn't be in the mess we are today--morally. In return, I point out Christianity would probably go underground, too. As Hitler and his cronies were vehemently anti-Christian. :/



Exactly. My above quote pretty much sums up his beliefs.

So your friend would have been OK with it if Hitler had just killed the Slavs, Gypsies, Physically or mentally defective (and a speech impediment was enough), Communists and members of the Confessing Church?

Oh and anyone else who was a threat to his power, friend of foe:

Victims of the Night of the Long Knives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Paradoxum]

Does he think murdering Jews (etc) was wrong?

A problem with authoritarian oppressive government is the wrong person/group gaining power. He may want a conservative Christian dictatorship, but things could go very badly for him if the wrong denomination, or tyrannical atheist gained power.

Ie: It's safer for everyone (long term) to have liberal democratic government. Moral authoritarianism will likely turn against you eventually.

 

[Akibahara]

So your friend would have been OK with it if Hitler had just killed the Slavs, Gypsies, Physically or mentally defective (and a speech impediment was enough), Communists and members of the Confessing Church?

Oh and anyone else who was a threat to his power, friend of foe:

Victims of the Night of the Long Knives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You know, I honestly haven't asked him yet. He isn't racist, so I'm certain he'd be against the extermination of Slavs and otherwise.

Does he think murdering Jews (etc) was wrong?

A problem with authoritarian oppressive government is the wrong person/group gaining power. He may want a conservative Christian dictatorship, but things could go very badly for him if the wrong denomination, or tyrannical atheist gained power.

Ie: It's safer for everyone (long term) to have liberal democratic government. Moral authoritarianism will likely turn against you eventually.

Yeah, I'm certain he'd want a conservative Christian dictatorship. He speaks about a "benevolent dictatorship" that'll be for the best of America.

 

[JustMeSee]

If you ignore all of the heinous acts committed under his command, he wasn't such a bad role model. /rolling eyes.

 

[FireDragon76]

Pray for your friend. The Nazi rot went very deep, it was not just about killing Jews, which is appalling enough that it should give any Christian pause in emulating them.

The Nazis were truly pagan. They believe in a kind of pantheism where your body belonged to the people and to the State by extension, with God being an immanent spirit only truly living in the German people, and embodied in the Fuhrer. There was no transcendence to their understanding of God, which is precisely why Dietrich Bonhoeffer criticized the corruption in the state church.

It sounds to me like your friend is just confusing homophobia and sexual repression with a genuinely Christian morality.

 

[WirSindBettler]

Alright, here's my dilemma: A good Baptist friend of mine loves Adolf Hitler--not his antisemitism (ironically enough, he's pro-Israel. We both share anti-Islamic ideas)--but how he transformed Germany into a "moral" country. He stated before Hitler Germany was deeply amoral and was widely accepting of homosexuality in Weimar Germany. He also loves the order and militarism of the Third Reich compared to the United States today.

What else should I say to him? The only verse that comes to mind is Proverbs 3:31- Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways.

Hitler was moral? Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha-I need to catch my breath-Woh ho ho ho ho ho ho! What?

I can see the "he took a bankrupt country and made it into a world superpower in a couple of years," but moral? On what planet?

Weimar Germany certainly wasn't a sexuality tolerant atmosphere.

 

[RDKirk]

Then why doesn't your friend move to North Korea? Same basic kind of government there.

In all seriousness, Nazism and Christianity both hold the same fundamental premise, that man has no right to live for his own sake. That man must live for the sake of others. The "other" is different in Christianity but it doesn't change the philosophical meaning of the principle.

Actually, this point can be drawn finer. The three classical characteristics of fascism--as defined by Mussolini himself:

1. Organicism. This is the concept that the citizens are members of an organic whole, each one serving his role toward the good of the whole and for the purpose of the whole. Moreover the national whole has a will of its own, leading to...

2. Absolutism. This is the concept that the will of the nation is triumphant over the individual wills of the citizens and subsumes them. Moreover, that national will can be and is represented by a single person, the natural Leader. Because the will and purpose of the nation is fully represented by the Leader....

3. Irrationalism. There is no need for the individual citizens to participate rationally in determining the direction of the nation, but only to obey the Leader.

 

[Akibahara]

It sounds to me like your friend is just confusing homophobia and sexual repression with a genuinely Christian morality.

I think so, too. He constantly points out the LGBT Community and liberals (or perhaps the concept of it) are the blight of the Western world and Christianity. He believes without a central moral power, or a man guided by God Himself, our culture will be damned a curse. He wants a "Christian Hitler," whatever that means.

Do you think I can ease him out of that mindset?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

 

[durangodawood]

I think so, too. He constantly points out the LGBT Community and liberals (or perhaps the concept of it) are the blight of the Western world and Christianity. He believes without a central moral power, or a man guided by God Himself, our culture will be damned a curse. He wants a "Christian Hitler," whatever that means.

Do you think I can ease him out of that mindset?

You need to get across why and how fascism is a moral evil.

Put it in moral terms.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

Verse? I think it's time to find a new friend.

 

[MehGuy]

Well he did have a cool and ironic mustache, and nice raven black hair. Striking and stern blue eyes, and sometimes he'd carry a whip with him. The fact that he could order your death at will must have also been a turn on.