Is Scripture MISSING Dogmas? (2)

[Root of Jesse]

You just said that it's wrong and then affirmed that it's correct.. you're too funny Brother!

Laugh it up fuzzball. I did no such thing. I showed a distinction you obviously don't see.

Oooooh.. the men in your assembly are responsible for all of their souls?

The shepherd is responsible for the well-being of his sheep. That's correct. Scriptural.

No different than any other born into the body of Christ by that SAME Spirit.

so you do think you're better, while criticizing those who you think think they're better than you. Of course, nobody said they were better than you...

I would guess it's because those men responsible for their souls can't help that.

Guess again. The shepherd does occasionally have to leave the 99 to go after the one lost. Again-Biblical.

Peter is the apostle to the circumcision as Paul is the Gentiles.

Peter, James, and John are pillars for the circumcision and they gave the right hand of fellowship to Paul and to those who took their ministry to the Gentiles.

We've already shown you that, just because Peter is said to be the apostle to the circumcision, that doesn't mean that he could not be the head of the entire Church.
(James Peter and John ordained Paul-that's what the right hand was all about...)

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Laugh it up fuzzball. I did no such thing. I showed a distinction you obviously don't see.

I agree. I don't get how the men in your assembly can't be wrong concerning faith and morals and yet not be better than other men.

The shepherd is responsible for the well-being of his sheep. That's correct. Scriptural.

And we all know that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Good Shepherd. He alone is responsible for the well being of every one of His and nobody is able to take even one from His hand.

so you do think you're better, while criticizing those who you think think they're better than you. Of course, nobody said they were better than you...

A typical tactic of turning the tables.. and yet we all know that you're the only one claiming to have men that can't be wrong here.

Nobody else, just the elite RCC.

Guess again. The shepherd does occasionally have to leave the 99 to go after the one lost. Again-Biblical.

And again not one can be taken from His hand. Not your men's hands.. the hands of the Lord Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh.

We've already shown you that, just because Peter is said to be the apostle to the circumcision, that doesn't mean that he could not be the head of the entire Church.
(James Peter and John ordained Paul-that's what the right hand was all about...)

Everyone knows that CHRIST is the HEAD of the church and that the church of God is His BODY.. the body you claim to consume.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I agree. I don't get how the men in your assembly can't be wrong concerning faith and morals and yet not be better than other men.

I think it's up to God to determine who's better or worse than one another. Even the most evil person on earth can be right about something. But you have to understand the nuances of infallibility, which I have reservations whether you would understand them, so I'll defer.

And we all know that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Good Shepherd. He alone is responsible for the well being of every one of His and nobody is able to take even one from His hand.

Except for those who say "Lord, Lord." Jesus will tell some "I never knew you."

A typical tactic of turning the tables.. and yet we all know that you're the only one claiming to have men that can't be wrong here.
Nobody else, just the elite RCC.

Point out to me where I said any man cannot be wrong? You cannot!

And again not one can be taken from His hand. Not your men's hands.. the hands of the Lord Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh.

Except for the goats, eh? Or do you believe they weren't in Jesus' hands?

Everyone knows that CHRIST is the HEAD of the church and that the church of God is His BODY.. the body you claim to consume.

Funny how you mix things up...

 

[ThatTrueLight]

I think it's up to God to determine who's better or worse than one another. Even the most evil person on earth can be right about something. But you have to understand the nuances of infallibility, which I have reservations whether you would understand them, so I'll defer.

I would think that simple logic dictates that to not be wrong is better than to be wrong.

It's not provable anyway, it's just something that men say about themselves. That they can't be wrong concerning faith and morals.. and then the direct observation of what that claim results in.. speaks for itself.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I would think that simple logic dictates that to not be wrong is better than to be wrong.

It's not provable anyway, it's just something that men say about themselves. That they can't be wrong concerning faith and morals.. and then the direct observation of what that claim results in.. speaks for itself.

I can prove it. Name a time a pope has preached anything that's against Catholicism in matters of faith and morals?

Men don't say it about themselves. It's an attribute of the office of pope as a person, and of those in communion with the pope as a group.

But you cannot show an instance of an infallible statement that went against Catholic teaching (which is from Christ Himself).

 

[ThatTrueLight]

I can prove it. Name a time a pope has preached anything that's against Catholicism in matters of faith and morals?

Men don't say it about themselves. It's an attribute of the office of pope as a person, and of those in communion with the pope as a group.

But you cannot show an instance of an infallible statement that went against Catholic teaching (which is from Christ Himself).

Good for you that you have proof.

For me the proof is in the declaration itself and how it results in men becoming wise in their own conceits.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Good for you that you have proof.

For me the proof is in the declaration itself and how it results in men becoming wise in their own conceits.

Your non-answer is excellent!

 

[fhansen]

Simply stating the facts here.

And so, IF the men in your assembly canot be wrong concerning faith and morals, THEN does that put them in a 'better' situation than those who can error with regard to faith and morals.. wouldn't you even agree to that?

It puts us all in a better position-because now we can have some real certainty regarding faith and morals- rather than just your or my say-so. Praise God!

I know because "Never a man spake like this Man".. that's how I know. When a person is born again by the incorruptible seed of the word of God, then they know it. It's a result of itself. It also reveals the enemies of the truth and highlights everything there is to know about that sort of thing.

So there's a very powerful subjective element to it-the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, witnessing to us and within us. That's a main ingredient in everyone's faith-including that of the Church.

And they were all Jews, every one. And Paul tells us that the oracles of God were entrusted to the Jews. The church of God is built upon the foundation of the Apostles and the Prophets with the Lord Jesus Christ being its chief cornerstone.

Amen

 

[ThatTrueLight]

It puts us all in a better position-because now we can have some real certainty regarding faith and morals- rather than just your or my say-so. Praise God!

And why is that? Why are the men in your assembly above error with regard to faith and morals where everyone else can be wrong?

So there's a very powerful subjective element to it-the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, witnessing to us and within us. That's a main ingredient in everyone's faith-including that of the Church.

Amen

Yes, the word of God is that good incorruptible seed which is sown and which produces an increase.. it's not what the men in your assembly say but rather what God has said in His word.

 

[Albion]

And why is that? Why are the men in your assembly above error with regard to faith and morals where everyone else can be wrong?

The older the error, the more appealing it is??

 

[ThatTrueLight]

The older the error, the more appealing it is??

I'm not sure what is so appealing about believing that the men in their assembly (who obviously are no different than anyone else) can be without error regarding faith and morals.

 

[Albion]

I'm not sure what is so appealing about believing that the men in their assembly (who obviously are no different than anyone else) can be without error regarding faith and morals.

It gives them a sense of certainty or security or even superiority, don't you know? They seem to need that. Other people don't.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

It gives them a sense of certainty or security or even superiority, don't you know? They seem to need that. Other people don't.

I guess that's my point.. Why in the world would any man put his faith and trust in other men when it comes to their eternal well being?

It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

 

[Albion]

I guess that's my point.. Why in the world would any man put his faith and trust in other men when it comes to their eternal well being?

It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

It's not because they're following men but because the men being followed have assured them that their group is the only real church. Buying into that argument naturally leads to the next conclusion--that what is being taught is the only truth.

The Bible, of course, belongs to all Christians, not just a particular sect or cult or movement, so to follow it means not thinking you have a unique standing. It's not just that they have the truth and others are supposed not to have it, but that they are part of an identifiable group that has it.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

It's not because they're following men but because the men being followed have assured them that their group is the only real church. Buying into that argument naturally leads to the next conclusion--that what is being taught is the only truth.

The Bible, of course, belongs to all Christians, not just a particular sect or cult or movement, so to follow it means not thinking you have a unique standing. It's not just that they have the truth and others are supposed not to have it, but that they are part of an identifiable group that has it.

I would disagree then because the bottom line is that they're following men and believe that the men in their own assembly are beyond error with regard to faith and morals.

 

[Albion]

I would disagree then because the bottom line is that they're following men and believe that the men in their own assembly are beyond error with regard to faith and morals.

You would disagree with them, I assume you mean. Certainly. So do I.

 

[fhansen]

The older the error, the more appealing it is??

Age, in itself, means nothing-or else we should all be Hindu or something I suppose. But, OTOH, there's a mistake we make-young people especially-when we dismiss age out of hand. "Apostolic succession", for example, places a value on age- on a continuous legacy into the past, to the beginnings of Christianity.

 

[fhansen]

And why is that? Why are the men in your assembly above error with regard to faith and morals where everyone else can be wrong?

Is it possible for you to be right about the meaning of Scripture when others are wrong? What's your honest answer to that question?

Yes, the word of God is that good incorruptible seed which is sown and which produces an increase.. it's not what the men in your assembly say but rather what God has said in His word.

Or what you say it says. We can't escape the fact that the Word is necessarily filtered through a human interpreter-even if it's ourselves.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Age, in itself, means nothing-or else we should all be Hindu or something I suppose. But, OTOH, there's a mistake we make-young people especially-when we dismiss age out of hand. "Apostolic succession", for example, places a value on age- on a continuous legacy into the past, to the beginnings of Christianity.

There is no such thing as Apostolic Succession. There are TWELVE Apostles of the Lamb and they shall sit on twelve thrones in the regeneration, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The church of God is built upon the foundation of the Apostles and prophets.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Is it possible for you to be right about the meaning of Scripture when others are wrong? What's your honest answer to that question?

Of course. And of course I could be wrong too. But not the men in your assembly, they can't be wrong according to you.

Or what you say it says. We can't escape the fact that the Word is necessarily filtered through a human interpreter-even if it's ourselves.

Well, by all means then please tell us your interpretation of the sower and his seed.