Yes, but what if we are not wrong?

[BL2KTN]

People will get what they really want.

I want peace, reason, fulfillment, friendship, and understanding. Glad to know you think I'll get it.

 

[RDKirk]

I want peace, reason, fulfillment, friendship, and understanding. Glad to know you think I'll get it.

If you want a universe with no God, I believe that is what you'll get.

 

[PsychoSarah]

If you want a universe with no God, I believe that is what you'll get.

Who says that just because some people do not believe in a deity, that they want them to not exist?

 

[RDKirk]

Who says that just because some people do not believe in a deity, that they want them to not exist?

First: I did not say that persons who don't believe in deities don't want them to exist. I said effectively just the opposite. I said: If you want a universe with no God, I believe that is what you'll get.

Second: Do you know any persons who truly don't believe in a deity yet who do truly want one to exist?

 

[GrimKingGrim]

If I did see a wild Yahweh appear after I die I would ask one thing: is my grandfather happy?

Then I'd accept whatever answer he gives and be on my way to hell.

Do you know any persons who truly don't believe in a deity yet who do truly want one to exist?

You'd be hard pressed to find an atheist who DOESN'T.

 

[agua]

I've always viewed this answer as a cop out.

Do you suggest humans can be infallible, or that we exhibit to be error prone ?

 

[FireDragon76]

Exactly. You won't be held morally accountable for your actions, but for whether you believed in the correct doctrines.

No, not at all. Else how would children inherit the Kingdom? they don't understand doctrines. For a church like the Eastern Orthodox, the religious life is about participation in the sacramental life, the rites of the Church, not ones private intellectual understanding.

Which is a rather perverse system to call "just". It simply has nothing to do with justice.

No, it has to do with love. Perhaps your heart is too hardened to see that.

 

[FireDragon76]

How did you conclude Jesus told you?

The Bible tells me so. (John 20:31)

If your religion does not have definitive answers, how do you know eternal life is about communion with the source of life, which I would assume you mean to be belief in your God?

That's an appeal to frivolous skepticism. How do you not know that you aren't in fact a brain trapped in a jar being fed lies by a demon?

Again, the Bible tells me so. I have faith in the Bible. We can know some things from reading it. We cannot know all the details, but some things we can know for sure.

You atheists are truly an amusing bunch. One minute you are mad at us for knowing everything, the next you are mad when we don't know it all!

 

[agua]

....
You atheists are truly an amusing bunch. One minute you are mad at us for knowing everything, the next you are mad when we don't know it all!

It sounds like a lose lose situation to me Summa summa.

 

[BL2KTN]

If you want a universe with no God, I believe that is what you'll get.

Reality doesn't bow to our whims.

- A deist

 

[RDKirk]

If I did see a wild Yahweh appear after I die I would ask one thing: is my grandfather happy?

Then I'd accept whatever answer he gives and be on my way to hell.



You'd be hard pressed to find an atheist who DOESN'T.

I'm old enough to be your grandfather.

You don't remember being taught to treat white people as though they were grizzly bears wandering into your tent ("Move slowly around them, don't speak too loud, and never look them in the eyes"). You don't remember having to pee in a bottle on a road trip because you weren't allowed to go to a public restroom.

You don't actually remember being a kid hearing about the freedom rides and being in fear, or the marching to gain entrance in the town movie theater or swimming pool and seeing the snarling white adult faces threatening your life, hearing them curse you--and knowing they could kill you and walk away without even prosecution.

I'll bet you even knew some white kids by name before you were even a teenager (which I didn't--I didn't know a single white person by name before I was a teenager).

You probably never had a gang of whites on your front lawn demanding your blood because they thought you were talking to a white girl.

And you're angry? You've lost faith?

 

[TillICollapse]

Do you suggest humans can be infallible, or that we exhibit to be error prone ?

Not at all ... I see it as a side issue in that context is all. It's a red herring.

 

[agua]

Not at all ... I see it as a side issue in that context is all. It's a red herring.

Ok no worries. Yes it may be a side issue for sure.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

I'm old enough to be your grandfather.

You don't remember being taught to treat white people as though they were grizzly bears wandering into your tent ("Move slowly around them, don't speak too loud, and never look them in the eyes"). You don't remember having to pee in a bottle on a road trip because you weren't allowed to go to a public restroom.

You don't actually remember being a kid hearing about the freedom rides and being in fear, or the marching to gain entrance in the town movie theater or swimming pool and seeing the snarling white adult faces threatening your life, hearing them curse you--and knowing they could kill you and walk away without even prosecution.

I'll bet you even knew some white kids by name before you were even a teenager (which I didn't--I didn't know a single white person by name before I was a teenager).

You probably never had a gang of whites on your front lawn demanding your blood because they thought you were talking to a white girl.

And you're angry? You've lost faith?

Uh I know we had that interaction in the other thread but you're actually off the mark here. I was referring to my maternal grandfather who died when I was 9. His passing was extremely emotional for me. In a family with a pathological superiority complex I swear I was picked on by everyone related to me by blood. My granddaddy was the only one who treated me with respect and true love as a child. I had a lot of energy and was a busy body so naturally I caused trouble (which was my nickname, a play on my real name, Trevor) do you know what it's like to be told you weren't welcome in family member's homes?

My grandfather was the only one who treated me like a little man and his funeral was the single worst day of my life. I was forced to confront the harsh reality that he isn't coming back and it broke my heart. I cried more that day than any day to date.

So my question of if my grandfather is happy was completely genuine. If it turns out the whole heaven thing is real I know for sure he's there and all I'd want is to have a small status update on him. I know it would be too much to ask God if I could see him one more time and let him see me as a full grown man (which is something I would do ANYTHING for) so I would just ask that simple question: is he happy in heaven?

See? There are atheists who want nothing more than it to be real. And I'm really choked up because I had to write this now.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

What saddens me further is when my aunts come around they tell me I look just like him...

Hurts every single time I hear it... love you grandad

 

[bhsmte]

First: I did not say that persons who don't believe in deities don't want them to exist. I said effectively just the opposite. I said: If you want a universe with no God, I believe that is what you'll get.

Second: Do you know any persons who truly don't believe in a deity yet who do truly want one to exist?

In my opinion, if someone really wants something to exist (bad enough) they will rationalize with themselves, that it does exist.

There are some people, that do want something to exist, but they think in a way, that doesn't allow them to pretend it exist, even though they want it to, because they can't reconcile it in their own mind.

Of course, the opposite can happen as well, when people really want something not to exist, even if there is good evidence that something does exist.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

In my opinion, if someone really wants something to exist (bad enough) they will rationalize with themselves, that it does exist.

There are some people, that do want something to exist, but they think in a way, that doesn't allow them to pretend it exist, even though they want it to, because they can't reconcile it in their own mind.

Of course, the opposite can happen as well, when people really want something not to exist, even if there is good evidence that something does exist.

The phrase you're looking for is "we all want to believe"

 

[TillICollapse]

What saddens me further is when my aunts come around they tell me I look just like him...

Hurts every single time I hear it... love you grandad

My respects to your grandad. I think it's amazing you got to experience having him, and you still honor him. At times, I wish I had something similar as a child, but in other ways, I'm glad I didn't :/

 

[Ken-1122]

Hello there guys. I am sure this have been discussed before in this forum, but I would like to know your point of view in my post here. What if, after all, the judeo-christian turns out to be the only one (as I believe He is), you die, but you realize you are perfectly conscious, you have your memories intact, but you are standing before Christ, before God, and it turns out that your entire life you have been denying Him. What now?

I don't want to debate the possibility of: yeah, but what if it's not true and you have been believing in a lie your whole life? I don't mind about that.

So, what if it turns out to be all true and you will most likely burn, not being able to assume God's love? (In this case, note that I do not have the knowledge to know who is going or not going to be in the state of hell).

First of all, I've never denied God, in order to deny you must have access to him; I never did.
If I found myself in front of the Christian God, I would ask him why did he choose to remain hidden from me. Hopefully i would get an answer

Ken

 

[GrimKingGrim]

My respects to your grandad. I think it's amazing you got to experience having him, and you still honor him. At times, I wish I had something similar as a child, but in other ways, I'm glad I didn't :/

Thanks.

He made self esteem possible for me. He made it seem like not EVERYBODY hates me. Good man.

And you're angry? You've lost faith?

Forgot to even respond to this. Yes, I'm angry. Because racism no longer is presented in the open. It no longer has this face:

[Redacted Racist Picture]

It is now faceless. It wants us to believe it's gone. And it's still around trying to wipe out the younger generation. The knuckleheads who don't listen to the elders who've lived through it. They want ME dead next. And the scary part is it can happen at any moment and my assailant will probably get a paid vacation and be worshipped as a hero instead of jail time.

That's reason to be angry.

Sorry to derail the topic, but I had to respond to that.