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We have seen that this claim of yours is contrary to Scripture, including Hebrews 4.
You didn't even comment on Hebrews 4.
Now I know that exegesis is scary, but would it kill you to address my post, where I walk from Hebrews 3:1 through to 4:10 with specifically the question of what is the writer getting at here in mind? It's quite simple that the book of Hebrews has in mind that Jesus is superior to Moses, that the rest we have in Him that we enter "today" is superior than the rest given at Sinai which we inevitably exit every week.
MoreCoffee said:
============================================Moses being inferior to Jesus has nothing to do with this subject. Jesus gave Moses the commandments, they did not originate with Moses.
Your grasp of my argument is astounding. Go deal with the exegesis, Moses didn't grant the Seventh Day rest in the Sabbath command, this is your Mt. Impassible that you have yet to even acknowledge let alone try to climb.
The biggest problem with this whole idea of the seventh day being rest in Christ is flawed on the basis that at creation when it was instituted man was in the "complete" image of God, being without sin: there was no need to rest in Jesus, man was there already!
Are you even reading the same passage as I walked through, the cyclical sabbath was instituted at Sinai, not creation (or at least that is the implicit claim of the writer) God's rest lasted from the seventh day through to now, and we enter into that rest by the work of Christ "today" Moses didn't bring us into the Rest of God because it's future, Joshua didn't because it's future, Christ does, there is sheer juxtaposition between the Seventh Day of Creation and the cyclical Sabbath of Sinai, we enter into the Rest of the Seventh Day of Creation through the work of Christ. That is the claim of the writer that you are still clearly dancing around.
You're reading into Gen 2 what isn't there, even Exodus 20, only the High Sabbaths of Judaism are explicitly for worship.
Where? He patterns the Sabbath off the Seventh day in Exodus 20, but there is no mention that the seventh day is the sabbath anywhere, we enter into the Seventh Day through Christ which is a superior Rest to that of the Sabbath is the argument of Hebrews here and you're clearly dodging it with your presupposition.
Completely agreed, with just one item that bears correction. The Sabbath traces its origin to the manna experience about a month before the covenant from Mount Sinai was declared. This difference doesn't impact your message, though.
I agree - and point out for this discussion that care needs to be taken to use the correct tense of the verb referring to the seventh day in the creation account. Elder111 and other SDAs will simply cite passages that refer to the Sabbath cycle in the present tense, unless this distinction is made. This was pointed out early in this thread, and Elder111 has yet to acknowledge the seventh day.
Clearly not, there is a distinction between "today" as a rest that is open to us, but was closed to the Israelites who were and still do practice the Sabbath.
It's implied, what is the rebellion in view? Did Sinai and as has been pointed out the Manna precede or come after the rebellion? The rebellion is those who left with Moses and provoked God for forty years, clearly there must be a juxtaposition between Christ's "today" and Moses' Sabbath. (3:16-19)
The way was opened through Christ (3:14) We do indeed learn latter that the way through Christ has been opened from Abel onwards, but its not because of Moses' Sabbath, but Christ's "Today" (cf Hebrews 11) What is the defining feature? Being united in faith, it's not a doing, but hearing producing faith. (4:2) You stand in the Sabbath and say that you have entered God's Rest, yet! And this is very important for you, like with those who prevailed with Him in the desert for forty years he says to you "You shall not enter my rest." Is there an evil unbelieving heart leading you to the rest that those in the rebellion had?
I think you don't understand me, I'm not exactly saying that Christ is the Rest, but that the way back into the Rest of God is wrought by Christ, consider again these Israelites in the rebellion, where are they in the story, before or after the manna and Sinai? They have what you would consider the restored Sabbath, yet it is said of them. "They shall not enter my rest." Doesn't that mean that if the Rest of God was the Sabbath that God would have taken away the Sabbath from them for him to actually fulfil this? But He didn't and so as the writer to the Hebrews does, we must look elsewhere. (4:3-5)
From a theological standpoint, Christ is the apex of His creation, having subjected the world to futility (Rom 8:20) God in Christ reconciles and redeems the World, it's not an after thought but the thrust of the whole narrative of Scripture. But then you have EGW tinted glasses and can't see the beauty of it can you?
Where's the corporate worship? There is certainly family worship, but not corporate, as I said before, only the High Sabbaths are actually a calling together to corporate worship.
Good for you, you've found where the Sabbath is patterned on the seventh day, on the creation week. Now why did it have to be reminded to the Israelites if it's been cyclical since creation? Also far more important, what does God do that this Sabbath doesn't for it to be distinct from His Rest? (Heb 4:3-6)
When is Elder 111 going to comply with his very own post? The last bullet is my reference.
