Can we fall from grace ?

[lori milne]

I don't see any bible verses that have the words willful sin in them?

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, ([bless and do not curse]Hebrews‬ [bless and do not curse]10‬:[bless and do not curse]26‬ KJV)

 

[ToBeBlessed]

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, ([bless and do not curse]Hebrews‬ [bless and do not curse]10‬:[bless and do not curse]26‬ KJV)

We previously discussed this verse.

It is talking about apostacy and totally turning away from the Lord. Making a total 360 degree turn in the wrong direction.

When you spoke about willful sin, you were talking about a Christian that is NOT an apostate. Your point was that if we know that a sin is a sin and calling that 'wilfull sin'.

This is totally different.

Your mixing apples with oranges. The wheat and the chaff.

 

[lori milne]

Ok I'll go to grace but I truly was answering your question about ware is willful sin in the bible.

Ok grace
Now examine a key scripture: “For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast” (Eph. 2:8-9). The faith “not of yourselves,” instrumental to salvation, is not your own human faith. It is the gift of God—the faith of Christ in us (Gal. 2:20). Jesus Christ, our High Priest, looks down and observes our sincerity and effort, and imparts His faith to us through His grace—divine favor and mercy. Those who receive this faith have no grounds for boasting of their works.

 

[lori milne]

The key word is FAITH which is the blood of Christ

 

[ToBeBlessed]

The key word is FAITH which is the blood of Christ

Faith is not the blood of Christ.

Faith is the knowledge that we are sinners and that we need a Savior, the Son of God, Jesus who died for the redemption of sin.

May I ask what type of church you attend? I am very confused by your theology.

I've never met another mainstream bible based Christian who shares your understanding of theology.

 

[lori milne]

The blood cleanses us and faith keeps us to become righteous .

Is the only way I can put what jesus teaches about Faith
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God
Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]25‬ KJV

It's a not new concept it's a massively over looked portion In The bible .
RCG is the only one I will lean towards these days but it's the bible i keep as my church

Rcg.org your more then welcome to pick at them is love to find any reason to stick with the word of God anyway

 

[lori milne]

oh right so as long as yu feel guilty you can keep sinning? why did Jesus come if we are saved by the law?

What is the New Testament teaching on “law and grace”? Is it one or the other—law versus grace—or both—law and grace? This is a subject of great controversy, leaving many confused

This is a week one but you should read 3:25-3:24 of Romans to get the entire conclusion he is making
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

 

[Light hearted]

What is the New Testament teaching on “law and grace”? Is it one or the other—law versus grace—or both—law and grace? This is a subject of great controversy, leaving many confused

This is a week one but you should read 3:25-3:24 of Romans to get the entire conclusion he is making
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

Thank you ToBeBlessed for trying to correct the misunderstood meaning of Heb:10, I mentioned a couple of days ago but it seemed to have little effect.

Shall we consider the meaning of Rom 3:24-25 is also being missunderstood.

I suggest that the author is referring to the patience of God to wait for the proper time for Jesus to be sacrificed of the Cross. With all the sin in the world before this time, God could have brought judgement down upon the world, these "past sins" were put aside to allow mankind to believe and have Faith in His Son.

So very sad, this verse which is showing God's mercy and patience is being used to declare God's judgement against those who believe and have Faith in His Son, Jesus Christ.

I suggest we tread lightly when we use verses showing God's mercy to condemn His children of whom have been bought by the blood of His beloved Son.

 

[lori milne]

Red above. Not quite. Grace is what Jesus has bestowed UPON US by giving us the gift of salvation. We, in faith, ACCEPT His grace in bestowing the gift of salvation upon us. The gift of salvation justifies us in Him and we are given the righteousness of Christ which imputed to us, makes us righteous also. The terms used in the Word, if you want to be correct biblically, cannot just be tossed around carelessly and interwoven. These words have specific meanings.

I couldn't find ware you asked about this Simon magus

So the answer is hear

Originally Posted by lori milne
Jude 1:3-4 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. [4] For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Lasciviousness means “license to sin.” It could also be defined as “unrestrained liberty” or “abuse of privilege.” In essence, this meant license to do what seems right in one’s own eyes, according to one’s own conscience.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Ok grace
Now examine a key scripture: “For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast” (Eph. 2:8-9). The faith “not of yourselves,” instrumental to salvation, is not your own human faith. It is the gift of God—the faith of Christ in us (Gal. 2:20). Jesus Christ, our High Priest, looks down and observes our sincerity and effort, and imparts His faith to us through His grace—divine favor and mercy. Those who receive this faith have no grounds for boasting of their works.

Ok, let's examine this scripture.

For by grace (The unmerited favor that God has bestowed upon you) are you saved through faith (knowledge of your sin, admission that you need a Savior who is Jesus Christ, the incarnate Son of God); and that not of yourselves you can do nothing to earn your salvation from sin): it is the gift of God: not of works (no amount of goodness can earn it) lest any man should boast (lest anyone say they have done anything good enough to have received it or to keep it).

Now, really. Grace is God's unmerited favor towards us. NOTE the word GOD. Grace is what He has DONE. Not anything that we have done.

Now this is what you said in an earlier post.

"Faith gives us righteousness that gives us grace".

So, what you said was
Faith (knowledge of your sin, admission that you need a Savior who is Jesus Christ, the incarnate Son of God) gives us righteousness (we are righteous and free of sin) that gives us grace (unmerited favor that God has bestowed upon you)

Can't you see how you misuse the word grace?

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I suggest we tread lightly when we use verses showing God's mercy to condemn His children of whom have been bought by the blood of His beloved Son.

I agree.

I also would suggest we not agressively throw specific biblical terms around in a way that causes confusion and convilutes their true meaning. Because others may read what we write.

 

[lori milne]

I agree. I also would suggest we not agressively throw specific biblical terms around in a way that causes confusion and convilutes their true meaning. Because others may read what we write.

Yes some peoples views or let's say assumptions Do seem to be a problem I agree !
Thanks God I'm
Biblically Based and keep my guessing to every one else lol haha

 

[lori milne]

Ok, let's examine this scripture. For by grace (The unmerited favor that God has bestowed upon you) are you saved through faith (knowledge of your sin, admission that you need a Savior who is Jesus Christ, the incarnate Son of God); and that not of yourselves you can do nothing to earn your salvation from sin): it is the gift of God: not of works (no amount of goodness can earn it) lest any man should boast (lest anyone say they have done anything good enough to have received it or to keep it). Now, really. Grace is God's unmerited favor towards us. NOTE the word GOD. Grace is what He has DONE. Not anything that we have done. Now this is what you said in an earlier post. "Faith gives us righteousness that gives us grace". So, what you said was Faith (knowledge of your sin, admission that you need a Savior who is Jesus Christ, the incarnate Son of God) gives us righteousness (we are righteous and free of sin) that gives us grace (unmerited favor that God has bestowed upon you) Can't you see how you misuse the word grace?

Righteousness isn't living in sin or in any way saved by grace
It's saved by His blood grace is after righteousness according to scripture Romans 3:25-4:25
A lot of reading but it breaks it down.

 

[lori milne]

Thank you ToBeBlessed for trying to correct the misunderstood meaning of Heb:10, I mentioned a couple of days ago but it seemed to have little effect. Shall we consider the meaning of Rom 3:24-25 is also being missunderstood. I suggest that the author is referring to the patience of God to wait for the proper time for Jesus to be sacrificed of the Cross. With all the sin in the world before this time, God could have brought judgement down upon the world, these "past sins" were put aside to allow mankind to believe and have Faith in His Son. So very sad, this verse which is showing God's mercy and patience is being used to declare God's judgement against those who believe and have Faith in His Son, Jesus Christ. I suggest we tread lightly when we use verses showing God's mercy to condemn His children of whom have been bought by the blood of His beloved Son.

It wasn't at all used to show any judgement it was showing what came first Abraham had faith before he was circumcised Then received righteousness then grace then he decided to obey the law!
I used this passage because is it one or the other—law versus grace—or both—law and grace? This is a subject of great controversy, leaving many confused. This need not be. Here is the plain Bible teaching!

 

[lori milne]

Righteousness isn't living in sin or in any way saved by grace It's saved by His blood grace is after righteousness according to scripture Romans 3:25-4:25 A lot of reading but it breaks it down.

Grace is not a key function in salvation at all
In fact it's the blood of Christ that cleanse your sin Not grace.
Saved by grace through faith is clear if you actually understand the meaning of Faith which it seems isn't the case!
Through faith ....
Saved by grace is only mention 2 times in the bible.
Grace is after righteousness that's after you've trusted or have faith in jesus to STOP sinning believe in Christ you can do all things!!

by faith is with his blood
And his blood washes away sin
It's continued
But a person led by the Spirit will strive to follow that law. When he occasionally sins, he repents and is forgiven (I John 1:8-10). By virtue of obedience and grace, he is not under the penalty of the law.

Blood and faith again go together because it was jesus his blood and his teachings?! Youde of corse think they're go together
whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]25‬

 

[lori milne]

I couldn't find ware you asked about this Simon magus So the answer is hear Originally Posted by lori milne Jude 1:3-4 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. [4] For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Lasciviousness means “license to sin.” It could also be defined as “unrestrained liberty” or “abuse of privilege.” In essence, this meant license to do what seems right in one’s own eyes, according to one’s own conscience.

Corrected

 

[ToBeBlessed]

It wasn't at all used to show any judgement it was showing what came first
Abraham had faith before he was circumcised
The received righteousness them grace then he decided to obey the law
I used this passage because iIs it one or the other—law versus grace—or both—law and grace? This is a subject of great controversy, leaving many confused. This need not be. Here is the plain Bible teaching!

Do you feel like these type of comments on the end of some of your responses put the reader in a mode of thinking that you might think you are always right and everyone else is wrong?

Like 'this leaves many confused'.

"Her is the plain bible teaching".

Did you ever think, what if what you are posting is wrong? Like what if you present everything that you write as being the answer to the hardest biblical questions, but only you are here to help the other people who don't know half as much as you do figure it out?

I mean, not saying you are, but if you were wrong, you'd be spreading a lot of incorrect stuff out there.

I just find it interesting, how people post and how they word things. I think some people naturally write well or maybe get more practice and are able to put their thoughts cohesively in order and explain it well using the written word.

 

[lori milne]

Faith is not the blood of Christ. Faith is the knowledge that we are sinners and that we need a Savior, the Son of God, Jesus who died for the redemption of sin. May I ask what type of church you attend? I am very confused by your theology. I've never met another mainstream bible based Christian who shares your understanding of theology.

Ware do you come up with this conclusion or ware In Scripture is this supported

 

[lori milne]

We previously discussed this verse. It is talking about apostacy and totally turning away from the Lord. Making a total 360 degree turn in the wrong direction. When you spoke about willful sin, you were talking about a Christian that is NOT an apostate. Your point was that if we know that a sin is a sin and calling that 'wilfull sin'. This is totally different. Your mixing apples with oranges. The wheat and the chaff.

10:26 sinning deliberately. Christians who claim to be sinless are self-deluded (1 John 1:8), and those who sin should not despair of grace (4:16; 1 John 2:1, 2). The willful sin here is abandoning one’s confession altogether, trampling the Son underfoot, treating His sacrificial blood as unclean, and insulting God’s gracious Spirit (6:6 note; 10:29). The seriousness of the charge is indicated by its willfulness (cf. Num. 15:30) and the measure of knowledge or enlightenment it refuses (cf. Heb. 6:4; 10:32).

no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. Since God has set aside the Levitical system of animal sacrifices (v. 9), those who abandon their confession of trust in Christ have nowhere to turn for forgiveness.

 

[lori milne]

Do you feel like these type of comments on the end of some of your responses put the reader in a mode of thinking that you might think you are always right and everyone else is wrong? Like 'this leaves many confused'. "Her is the plain bible teaching". Did you ever think, what if what you are posting is wrong? Like what if you present everything that you write as being the answer to the hardest biblical questions, but only you are here to help the other people who don't know half as much as you do figure it out? I mean, not saying you are, but if you were wrong, you'd be spreading a lot of incorrect stuff out there. I just find it interesting, how people post and how they word things. I think some people naturally write well or maybe get more practice and are able to put their thoughts cohesively in order and explain it well using the written word.

Well apparently I'm not the only one as you have got to know so it is a sound statement!
Your OSAS theory is just that a theory but isn't the only one!

n the Calvinism vs. Hyper-Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate, who is correct?