Can we fall from grace ?

[ToBeBlessed]

Righteousness isn't living in sin or in any way saved by grace
It's saved by His blood grace is after righteousness according to scripture Romans 3:25-4:25
A lot of reading but it breaks it down.

You haven't shown me that grace is after righteousness. I don't even understand how you have come to that conclusion. Then you pop over to the blood. Earlier you said that grace was by the blood. Which is it?
You give me a Chapter and a half of references.

Why don't you show me the scripture and explain it verse by verse in it's entirety.

A verse here and a verse over there doesn't always make the best argument.

I at least break it down. Can't you break down the scriptures in writing and put your own commentary in there as a thorough explanation for me?

 

[lori milne]

Well apparently I'm not the only one as you have got to know so it is a sound statement! Your OSAS theory is just that a theory but isn't the only one! n the Calvinism vs. Hyper-Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate, who is correct?

You've got to know these are stems of the church and have different views in grace vs law
It's not a new debate

 

[lori milne]

You haven't shown me that grace is after righteousness. I don't even understand how you have come to that conclusion. Then you pop over to the blood. Earlier you said that grace was by the blood. Which is it? You give me a Chapter and a half of references. Why don't you show me the scripture and explain it verse by verse in it's entirety. A verse here and a verse over there doesn't always make the best argument. I at least break it down. Can't you break down the scriptures in writing and put your own commentary in there as a thorough explanation for me?

Ok will attempt it lol as you can see I keep responding to you in the wrong area

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Well apparently I'm not the only one as you have got to know so it is a sound statement!

I don't sing my own praises at the bottom of each of my posts. You do that, I do not. I was asking why you need to talk about how you are right all the time, like your the only one that knows scripture.

Many people know scripture. Many people study the Greek. Do you know the Greek?

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Ok will attempt it lol as you can see I keep responding to you in the wrong area

YES. And it is very, very confusing.

Slooooowwwwww doooowwwnnnnnn

Deep breath. Read more, post slower.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Your profile says that you have over 300 posts.

You must know that when you reply to a specific poss, that what you write should correspond to that post. So....

 

[lori milne]

You haven't shown me that grace is after righteousness. I don't even understand how you have come to that conclusion. Then you pop over to the blood. Earlier you said that grace was by the blood. Which is it? You give me a Chapter and a half of references. Why don't you show me the scripture and explain it verse by verse in it's entirety. A verse here and a verse over there doesn't always make the best argument. I at least break it down. Can't you break down the scriptures in writing and put your own commentary in there as a thorough explanation for me?

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. *** but by the law of faith**is a statement.

"(So here is the question)" law or works because they asked what we are asking as well lol)

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law
Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]25-31‬
(" so faith before circumcision and after is the issue , do they ignore the law because they have faith?")

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture?

Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(" so Abraham is being used as an example to answer the question:
and he believed God had faith in him then this produced righteousness to grace bit of dept so he owed something")

Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works
Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]4‬:[bless and do not curse]1-6‬
KJV

7.Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also?
("They used David clearly saying he received righteousness not through works but it was through being sin free or forgiven of iniquity but again they bring up law to who is it for law abiders circumcised or uncircumcised")

for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision?
("So they are again going over law was he given faith and uncircumcised or after circumcision?")


Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

(" and now they see its for uncircumcised ")

And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also
(" so concluded he revived faith-righteousness the obeyed the law") they put it in order again below)

And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham,

which he had being yet uncircumcised. For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith
For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, ([bless and do not curse]Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]4‬:[bless and do not curse]7-16‬ KJV)

Faith to believe - produces righteousness -gives grace and makes you want to follow the law.

Hope I didn't mess this up lol

 

[lori milne]

Wish I could use different colors :/
Well the (. .) are my points to the scripture and one *** was used lol
I botched it I hope you can read just the scriptures explaining the old question of what order of faith righteousness grace and law

 

[hmw]

How can we fall from grace?

The Bible tells us.

Heb 12:15,16
looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright.

Gal 5:4
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Thus we see that it is those professing Christians who preach works of the law who fall from grace.

We must not mix works of the law, with grace.

Rom 11:6.
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Sadly, we see many professing Christians rebelling against God by preaching a lukewarm mix of works of the law, with grace.

 

[lori milne]

How can we fall from grace? The Bible tells us. Heb 12:15,16 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. Gal 5:4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Thus we see that it is those professing Christians who preach works of the law who fall from grace. We must not mix works of the law, with grace. Rom 11:6. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. Sadly, we see many professing Christians rebelling against God by preaching a lukewarm mix of works of the law, with grace.

Luke warm Is having grace justify sin
But of your theory is correct
Why is grace that saves and not the blood of Jesus?
The blood is the only thing that cleanses sin.
When did grace replace blood and why?

 

[lori milne]

How can we fall from grace? The Bible tells us. Heb 12:15,16 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. Gal 5:4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Thus we see that it is those professing Christians who preach works of the law who fall from grace. We must not mix works of the law, with grace. Rom 11:6. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. Sadly, we see many professing Christians rebelling against God by preaching a lukewarm mix of works of the law, with grace.

And it's faith that produces righteousness that gives you grace to want to obey the law
It's not required
Romans 4:1-25
Abraham is used as an example of that to explain this same debate to the Romans who complained about the Greeks not obeying the law but being in Gods favor / grace

 

[lori milne]

How can we fall from grace? The Bible tells us. Heb 12:15,16 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. Gal 5:4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Thus we see that it is those professing Christians who preach works of the law who fall from grace. We must not mix works of the law, with grace. Rom 11:6. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. Sadly, we see many professing Christians rebelling against God by preaching a lukewarm mix of works of the law, with grace.

Saved by grace is in the bible twice its not a solid theory!
Saved by the blood of Christ is the truth
This is in Jude 1:3-4 and acts 8:9-24
Even before the New Testament was completely written, ungodly men had crept into the Church in an attempt to corrupt it by turning grace into lasciviousness. This was precisely the false gospel taught by Simon Magus, Nicholas of Samaria, Cerinthus and other “founders” of counterfeit Christianity.

 

[lori milne]

Lasciviousness means “license to sin.” It could also be defined as “unrestrained liberty” or “abuse of privilege.” In essence, this meant license to do what seems right in one’s own eyes, according to one’s own conscience.
Just as Simon Magus (Acts 8:9-24) and others turned God’s grace into license to disobey His law, this same attitude permeates the minds of most professing Christians today.

 

[lori milne]

How can we fall from grace? The Bible tells us. Heb 12:15,16 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. Gal 5:4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Thus we see that it is those professing Christians who preach works of the law who fall from grace. We must not mix works of the law, with grace. Rom 11:6. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. Sadly, we see many professing Christians rebelling against God by preaching a lukewarm mix of works of the law, with grace.

Tell me I'm I giving you a theory or fact?
I hope you search what Calvinism is and then really look at who started it who the man was,
To me it seems grace has been attempting to replace the blood of Christ since before the NT was even finished!
Scary stuff when you see a lucifarin plan
If you don't ask for his blood to clean you from sin and expect grace to do something it won't.
Grace is a definition of An action after righteousness and you can not obtain righteousness of your sinning willfully and not repenting !

 

[thepromiseofgrace]

Saved by grace is in the bible twice its not a solid theory!
Saved by the blood of Christ is the truth
This is in Jude 1:3-4 and acts 8:9-24
Even before the New Testament was completely written, ungodly men had crept into the Church in an attempt to corrupt it by turning grace into lasciviousness. This was precisely the false gospel taught by Simon Magus, Nicholas of Samaria, Cerinthus and other “founders” of counterfeit Christianity.

if we are not saved by grace what are we saved by. What did Jesus come for?

 

[thepromiseofgrace]

Luke warm Is having grace justify sin
But of your theory is correct
Why is grace that saves and not the blood of Jesus?
The blood is the only thing that cleanses sin.
When did grace replace blood and why?

if blood cleanses sin how come you are still worried about sin, do you not think the blood of Jesus is good enough, would you deny the saving power of Jesus?

 

[hmw]

Luke warm Is having grace justify sin

Lori, you misunderstand scripture.

Lukewarm is mixing works of the law, with grace. You cannot mix these two, as Rom 11:6 says.

Jude 4 speaks of these lukewarm people who turn the grace of God into lasciviousness (expressing lust) for spiritual sexual immorality with Hagar, who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law (Gal 4:24).

We see this time and again in scripture these warnings not to turn back to works of the law. And in spite of all these warnings we still see professing Christians, being lukewarm by mixing works of the law with grace. These professing Christians are really lusting after Hagar, who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law.

Being married to Christ (Eph 5:31) and being one spirit with the Lord (1Cor 5:17) we should never spiritually fornicate with Hagar/righteousness by works of the law (1Cor 5:18). This means we should never mix works of the law, with grace.

Why is grace that saves and not the blood of Jesus?
The blood is the only thing that cleanses sin.
When did grace replace blood and why?

Why do you separate grace and the blood of Christ as opposites? I don't know where you get these ideas from but they have no foundation.

The gospel of Christ (Rom 1:16) is also called the gospel of grace (Acts 20:24), the gospel of the kingdom (Mark 1:14). These are not 3 separate gospels as you seem to be suggesting.

In one of your posts you even incorrectly claimed that the gospel of grace was "not a solid theory".

Consider Rom 5 to see how faith, grace and Christ's sacrifice are all linked.
Rom 5

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character; and character, hope. Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[hmw]

if blood cleanses sin how come you are still worried about sin, do you not think the blood of Jesus is good enough, would you deny the saving power of Jesus?

Good point.

the doctrine that Lori follows calls unclean, what God has cleansed.

 

[BryanW92]

To me it seems grace has been attempting to replace the blood of Christ since before the NT was even finished!

The sacrifice of Christ is the source of the grace we receive. Why do you keep trying to separate the two? Without the sacrifice, there is no grace. Without grace, we do not receive the imputed benefit of the sacrifice.

Try to think of it this way: the sacrifice is a gift, bought and wrapped for you. Grace is the act of giving it to you. Without both, you do not get the gift. You didn't earn it. You can't buy it. You can't steal it. It must be given to you.

 

[thepromiseofgrace]

The sacrifice of Christ is the source of the grace we receive. Why do you keep trying to separate the two? Without the sacrifice, there is no grace. Without grace, we do not receive the imputed benefit of the sacrifice.

Try to think of it this way: the sacrifice is a gift, bought and wrapped for you. Grace is the act of giving it to you. Without both, you do not get the gift. You didn't earn it. You can't buy it. You can't steal it. It must be given to you.

great post.