Some don't understand Romans 3:31. Here is a challenge.

[yesyoushould]

law in Rom 4:15 was the code, because it speaks of transgression, the violation of a written known law. So that law is gone, the code id over, it is 2015!

I don't want to think about evil also. That make sense to me. Where evil doesn't exist, only goodness does.

 

[yesyoushould]

law in Rom 4:15 was the code, because it speaks of transgression, the violation of a written known law. So that law is gone, the code id over, it is 2015!

I don't see the law as a violation, all things are good. The law is good because it offers a way to stop serving(doing) evil. A way to serve God. The written law failed the ones that serve evil, not those who believe in God, but those who reject God, and so love offers a perfect way.

 

[Steeno7]

I don't see the law as a violation, all things are good. The law is good because it offers a way to stop serving(doing) evil. A way to serve God. The written law failed the ones that serve evil, not those who believe in God, but those who reject God, and so love offers a perfect way.

How does the Law offer a way to stop serving evil? All it does is tell you what to do and not do, it doesn't provide a way to do it at all. Its powerless to stop evil.

But, Jesus does offer a way....Himself.

 

[listed]

How does the Law offer a way to stop serving evil? All it does is tell you what to do and not do, it doesn't provide a way to do it at all. Its powerless to stop evil.

But, Jesus does offer a way....Himself.

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

The Spirit through the new man does what the law could never do.

 

[listed]

This makes sense to you?

It sure makes me shake my head.

 

[listed]

Not quite true (As has been repeatedly proven)

Cribstyl said - Keep in mind the scripture does not conclude that we're all under law. It say we're all under for sin..........

The Scripture says not under the law 2 verses in a row. Rom 6:14, 15

The Scripture says now we are delivered from the law. Rom 7:6

The Scripture says again in Gal 5:18 not under the law.

What in the world do you mean not quite true?

[FONT=&quot]Rom 3:
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world[/FONT][FONT=&quot] may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for[/FONT][FONT=&quot] by the law is the knowledge of sin[/FONT][FONT=&quot].
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being [/FONT][FONT=&quot]witnessed by the Law and the Prophets[/FONT][FONT=&quot],
...

(So then the moral law of God is being affirmed by all of scripture "the Law and the Prophets")

29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Which I think even you will admit is not simply the Psalms - but the TEN Commandments written on stone the "LAW of death" as Paul calls it in 2Cor 3.

2 Cor 3
7 But if the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]ministry of death, written and engraved on stones[/FONT][FONT=&quot], was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.[/FONT]

 

[listed]

Romans 3 does not say "the world used to be condemned" by the Ten commandments - but rather - still is.

The Christian is not the world.

 

[Frogster]

I don't see a mistake in Romans 3, or in my quote of it, or in my statements about it - but I will keep going back before your post above to see if you found one.

[FONT=&quot]See the post above for the list of texts that de[FONT=&quot]bunk that[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

In post 88 you said Rom 3 was specifically about the 10..you said...

"This Romans 3 LAW is specifically the Ten Commandments as so many of even the pro-sunday scholars have affirmed."

But, then you quoted 3:19, that has the law word in it, but your problem is this, the law word in 3:19, was not the 10, because it was about the 8 verses before, where Paul,was not quoting the 10, he is quoting the Psalms, Isaiah, and the Proverbs.

So it proves that you statement is incorrect about 3 being "LAW is specifically the Ten" , because 3:19, a verse you quoted was not about the 10. So when you say 3 was about the 10, 3:19 proves you wrong.

Take a peep at the verses right before, are they the 10?

 

[listed]

Where have you read that keeping the law of God isn't by grace?

What law are you talking about? Is it the 1 issued at Sinai? I am not obligated to that law or covenant as a Christian.

 

[Frogster]

Romans 3 does not say "the world used to be condemned" by the Ten commandments - but rather - still is.

what does this have to do with what you quoted?

Where did I say the world is not still condemned?

But actually they were really condemned in Adam, see 5:18 of Romans. Besides, Jesus said believe and we are not condemned in John 5:24, he did not say keep the 10,to not be condemned. So really, we are not saved by stones, and the condemnation came way before the stones, so lets not overdo the stones.

They don't seem, to have that much need. We were condemned and saved without them!

 

[Frogster]

What law are you talking about? Is it the 1 issued at Sinai? I am not obligated to that law or covenant as a Christian.

preach it!

 

[Frogster]

Re: <<<"Where there is no law - there is no sin" Romans 4.>>>

Were there no Jesus Christ there would have been no sin. Do I now make Jesus Christ, sin? God forbid! On the contrary, I establish Jesus Christ.

do you understand that this post can be confusing?

 

[yesyoushould]

What law are you talking about? Is it the 1 issued at Sinai? I am not obligated to that law or covenant as a Christian.

The entire ten commandments are fulfilled in love. Law is perfected in love.
Galatians 5:22-23

Love God, Love thy neighbor as thyself.

 

[BobRyan]

In post 88 you said Rom 3 was specifically about the 10..you said...

"This Romans 3 LAW is specifically the Ten Commandments as so many of even the pro-sunday scholars have affirmed."

Indeed - irrefutable.


[FONT=&quot]Rom 3:
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, [FONT=&quot]that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world[/FONT][FONT=&quot] may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for[/FONT][FONT=&quot] by the law is the knowledge of sin[/FONT][FONT=&quot].
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being [/FONT][FONT=&quot]witnessed by the Law and the Prophets[/FONT][FONT=&quot],
...

(So then the moral law of God is being affirmed by all of scripture "the Law and the Prophets")

29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Which I think even you will admit is not simply the Psalms - but the TEN Commandments written on stone the "LAW of death" as Paul calls it in 2Cor 3.

2 Cor 3
7 But if the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]ministry of death, written and engraved on stones[/FONT][FONT=&quot], was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]
Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.[/FONT][/FONT]

But, then you quoted 3:19, that has the law word in it

"law word"??


This is more than "law word" -- it is - Bible text pointing out that the Law of God defines what sin is [FONT=&quot]by the law is the knowledge of sin[/FONT]

And it condemns all the world -

And of course "Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1John 3:4

[FONT=&quot]Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Rom 3:
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, [FONT=&quot]that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world[/FONT][FONT=&quot] may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for[/FONT][FONT=&quot] by the law is the knowledge of sin[/FONT][FONT=&quot].
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being [/FONT][FONT=&quot]witnessed by the Law and the Prophets[/FONT][FONT=&quot],
...[/FONT][/FONT]

, but your problem is this, the law word in 3:19, was not the 10,

"the law word"????

All the world condemned under sin - by that LAW

"the wages of sin is death" therefore the LAW is the ministry of death to all that have not yet accepted the Gospel.

[FONT=&quot]2 Cor 3
7 But if the [FONT=&quot]ministry of death, written and engraved on stones[/FONT][FONT=&quot], was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]And that Law is written on[FONT=&quot] tablets of stone.


[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

because it was about the 8 verses before, where Paul,was not quoting the 10, he is quoting the Psalms, Isaiah, and the Proverbs.

Paul speaks about the Law - so also do many texts in the "Law and the Prophets" - but Passover does not condemn all the world for violation of it.

The Moral LAW of God - does.

And Paul is specific that this Law that condemns is written on stone.

It is the same law then that we "ESTABLISH" in Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

The context for LAW in Rom 3 - is that LAW which condemns all the world - and that defines exactly what sin is --

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Frogster]

Indeed - irrefutable.


[FONT=&quot]Rom 3:
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, [FONT=&quot]that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world[/FONT][FONT=&quot] may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for[/FONT][FONT=&quot] by the law is the knowledge of sin[/FONT][FONT=&quot].
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being [/FONT][FONT=&quot]witnessed by the Law and the Prophets[/FONT][FONT=&quot],
...

(So then the moral law of God is being affirmed by all of scripture "the Law and the Prophets")

29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Which I think even you will admit is not simply the Psalms - but the TEN Commandments written on stone the "LAW of death" as Paul calls it in 2Cor 3.

2 Cor 3
7 But if the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]ministry of death, written and engraved on stones[/FONT][FONT=&quot], was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]
Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.[/FONT][/FONT]





"law word"??


This is more than "law word" -- it is - Bible text pointing out that the Law of God defines what sin is [FONT=&quot]by the law is the knowledge of sin[/FONT]

And it condemns all the world -

And of course "Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1John 3:4

[FONT=&quot]Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Rom 3:
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, [FONT=&quot]that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world[/FONT][FONT=&quot] may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for[/FONT][FONT=&quot] by the law is the knowledge of sin[/FONT][FONT=&quot].
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being [/FONT][FONT=&quot]witnessed by the Law and the Prophets[/FONT][FONT=&quot],
...[/FONT][/FONT]




"the law word"????

All the world condemned under sin - by that LAW

"the wages of sin is death" therefore the LAW is the ministry of death to all that have not yet accepted the Gospel.

[FONT=&quot]2 Cor 3
7 But if the [FONT=&quot]ministry of death, written and engraved on stones[/FONT][FONT=&quot], was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]And that Law is written on[FONT=&quot] tablets of stone.


[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]


Paul speaks about the Law - so also do many texts in the "Law and the Prophets" - but Passover does not condemn all the world for violation of it.

The Moral LAW of God - does.

And Paul is specific that this Law that condemns is written on stone.

It is the same law then that we "ESTABLISH" in Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

The context for LAW in Rom 3 - is that LAW which condemns all the world - and that defines exactly what sin is --

in Christ,

Bob

bob, simple post, simple question, is 3:19 about the 10 commandments?

look a the previous verses before 3:19, which show that obviously LAW in 3:19 was NOT the 10, then reply. I thought, or hoped, that you knew nomos can have several meanings? You said Rom 3 was about the 10. Is 3:10-18 the 10? because law in 3:19 is about those verses.


10 as it is written:

&#8220;None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.&#8221;
13 &#8220;Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.&#8221;
&#8220;The venom of asps is under their lips.&#8221;
14 &#8220;Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.&#8221;
15 &#8220;Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
17 and the way of peace they have not known.&#8221;
18 &#8220;There is no fear of God before their eyes.&#8221;

19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God.

 

[BobRyan]

None righteous is not defining what righteousness is.

But the moral law does define what sin is for "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

1John 3:4.

2 Cor 3 defines what the LAW is that condemns all mankind to death.

Romans 3 says it does just that - and that it defines what sin is.

[FONT=&quot]Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.


[FONT=&quot]Rom 3:
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, [FONT=&quot]that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world[/FONT][FONT=&quot] may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for[/FONT][FONT=&quot] by the law is the knowledge of sin[/FONT][FONT=&quot].
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being [/FONT][FONT=&quot]witnessed by the Law and the Prophets[/FONT][FONT=&quot],

[FONT=&quot]===========================

[FONT=&quot]This appears to be the weakest point in your argument - why do [FONT=&quot]you insist that I keep e[FONT=&quot]xposing it?

[FONT=&quot]How is that strategy suppose[FONT=&quot]d to work?

[FONT=&quot]in Christ,

[FONT=&quot]Bob[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Frogster]

None righteous is not defining what righteousness is.

But the moral law does define what sin is for "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

1John 3:4.

2 Cor 3 defines what the LAW is that condemns all mankind to death.

Romans 3 says it does just that - and that it defines what sin is.

[FONT=&quot]Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.


[FONT=&quot]Rom 3:
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, [FONT=&quot]that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world[/FONT][FONT=&quot] may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for[/FONT][FONT=&quot] by the law is the knowledge of sin[/FONT][FONT=&quot].
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being [/FONT][FONT=&quot]witnessed by the Law and the Prophets[/FONT][FONT=&quot],

[FONT=&quot]===========================

[FONT=&quot]This appears to be the weakest point in your argument - why do [FONT=&quot]you insist that I keep e[FONT=&quot]xposing it?

[FONT=&quot]How is that strategy suppose[FONT=&quot]d to work?

[FONT=&quot]in Christ,

[FONT=&quot]Bob[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

frog green, oh, it defines sin, then how can it uphold faith, when it voids faith, Rom 4:14, and is not of faith gal 3;12? The point you never address.

were those verses about the 10?

 

[BobRyan]

[FONT=&quot]It was ex[FONT=&quot]plained "sola scriptura" i[FONT=&quot]n the texts you [FONT=&quot]are avo[FONT=&quot]iding.[/FONT][/FONT]

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But the moral law does define what sin is for "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1John 3:4.


[FONT=&quot]Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.


[FONT=&quot]Rom 3:
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, [FONT=&quot]that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world[FONT=&quot] may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for[FONT=&quot] by the law is the knowledge of sin[FONT=&quot].
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being [/FONT][FONT=&quot]witnessed by the Law and the Prophets[/FONT][FONT=&quot],

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]2 Cor 3
7 But if the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]ministry of death, written and engraved on stones[/FONT][FONT=&quot], was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]And that Law is written on[FONT=&quot] tablets of stone.
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
In Romans 4
[/FONT]
15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no sin.

Paul speaks about the Law - so also do many texts in the "Law and the Prophets" - but Passover does not condemn all the world for violation of it.

The Moral LAW of God - does.

And Paul is specific that this Law that condemns is written on stone.

It is the same law then that we "ESTABLISH" in Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

 

[Frogster]

[FONT=&quot]It was ex[FONT=&quot]plained "sola scriptura" i[FONT=&quot]n the texts you [FONT=&quot]are avo[FONT=&quot]iding.[/FONT][/FONT]

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But the moral law does define what sin is for "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1John 3:4.


[FONT=&quot]Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.


[FONT=&quot]Rom 3:
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, [FONT=&quot]that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world[FONT=&quot] may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for[FONT=&quot] by the law is the knowledge of sin[FONT=&quot].
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being [/FONT][FONT=&quot]witnessed by the Law and the Prophets[/FONT][FONT=&quot],

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]2 Cor 3
7 But if the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]ministry of death, written and engraved on stones[/FONT][FONT=&quot], was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]And that Law is written on[FONT=&quot] tablets of stone.
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
In Romans 4
[/FONT]
15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no sin.

Paul speaks about the Law - so also do many texts in the "Law and the Prophets" - but Passover does not condemn all the world for violation of it.

The Moral LAW of God - does.

And Paul is specific that this Law that condemns is written on stone.

It is the same law then that we "ESTABLISH" in Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

please, you said this in post 88..


"This Romans 3 LAW is specifically the Ten Commandments as so many of even the pro-sunday scholars have affirmed."


please show me how 3:10-18, which were the Psalms, Isaiah, and Proverbs, were SPECIFICALLY the 10.

Simple clear post, simple clear question.

 

[yesyoushould]

Who is against the "ten commandments"? Murderers? Thiefs? Haters of parents? Haters of God? Haters of a day of rest?