Hyper grace and the great lie

[JLR1300]

There are several people on the boards recently who seem to think that salvation is by the perfect or at least the near perfect keeping of the law. They are well-meaning people but are mistaken. If you read the new testament carefully, you will see that Jesus was more against people like that than any other group. He taught that prostitutes will get into heaven before the religious moralists.

Have you not heard of the Pharisees? The Pharisees were the group in Christ's time who believed that other people were all lost because they didn't keep the commandments well enough, but that they themselves were going to heaven because they were so faithful to the laws of God. Jesus absolutely despised the Pharisees.

Remember the story of the Pharisee and the tax collector? The Pharisee stood and prayed and said God I thank you that I am not like others. I fast and tithe and don't commit adultery etc. But the tax collector simply said God have mercy on me a sinner. Jesus said that the tax collector went home justified rather than the Pharisee.

What people don't understand is that most of what Jesus taught in Matthew, Mark and Luke was not the gospel. Jesus spent most of the time in those books explaining the how strict the LAW is so that the Pharisees would hopefully realize that they couldn't keep it and turn to Him for mercy instead.

When the rich young ruler asked Jesus to tell Him what good thing He could DO to obtain eternal life... Jesus wanted to destroy his trust in salvation by lawkeeping. So Jesus told him to keep the commandments.... especially not coveting (Jesus showed him that he wasn't keeping this one by challenging him to give up his posessions) and putting no other gods before God (Jesus showed him that he wasn't keeping this one by challenging him to leave everything and follow him). The Rich Young Ruler wouldn't do those things and so Jesus proved to Him that He wasn't really keeping the laws like He imagined he was. Jesus never told the young man the Gospel... he preached the LAW to him. Jesus was just showing the young man that He was failing to keep the law.

If you want to learn the GOSPEL read the book of John. That book was specifically written to explain how to receive eternal life. So was the book of Romans.

The word "gospel' is not in the greek in the titles of matthew mark and lukes' book. The greek does not say "the gospel according to Matthew' the greek only says "according to Matthew". same with the others. That is because they mostly are just the teachings of Jesus about the Kingdom of God and about the Law. John reveals the gospel.

Most of the Gospels are like that.... they teach us how strict the law is so that we will realize that we aren't keeping it and will quit trusting it for salvation and will look to Jesus' sacrifice at the cross to pay for our sins and redeem us.

The sermon on the mount was given to show people that if they want to be saved by the law then they are going to have to be absolutely perfect. If you want to be saved by the law... you not only must not commit adultery, you must not ever lust...even once. You must not only avoid murder... you must never be angry without cause even once. You must never speak even one idle word in your life. You must be perfect ... as much as the Father is perfect. If you mess up even once you cannot ever be saved.

The only other choice is the Gospel. The Gospel isn't the law. It is completely different. The Gospel is the GOOD NEWS that even though you are a worthless sinner who's righteousness is as a filthy rag in God's sight, nevertheless Jesus died on the cross and paid the penalty for all our sins and so we can be completely forgiven. Those who will quit trying to be saved by their morality and will instead trust Jesus to save them will be saved. Those who are trying to be saved by their attempts to keep the law will be lost.

The problem with many people is that they are filled with pride. In their arrogance they believe that others will not make it to heaven because they are so sinful but that they will make it because they are so zealous and committed to the morality Jesus taught in the sermon on the mount. Really they are just modern day Pharisees... and prostitutes will get into heaven before they do.

I realize that after a person is saved the Holy Spirit will enter them and help them live a more godly life... but that is the RESULT of Salvation not the cause of it. The way to be saved is by faith alone.

 

[BrokenWarrior]

There are several people on the boards recently who seem to think that salvation is by the perfect or at least the near perfect keeping of the law. They are well-meaning people but are mistaken. If you read the new testament carefully, you will see that Jesus was more against people like that than any other group. He taught that prostitutes will get into heaven before the religious moralists.

Have you not heard of the Pharisees? The Pharisees were the group in Christ's time who believed that other people were all lost because they didn't keep the commandments well enough, but that they themselves were going to heaven because they were so faithful to the laws of God. Jesus absolutely despised the Pharisees.

Remember the story of the Pharisee and the tax collector? The Pharisee stood and prayed and said God I thank you that I am not like others. I fast and tithe and don't commit adultery etc. But the tax collector simply said God have mercy on me a sinner. Jesus said that the tax collector went home justified rather than the Pharisee.

What people don't understand is that most of what Jesus taught in Matthew, Mark and Luke was not the gospel. Jesus spent most of the time in those books explaining the how strict the LAW is so that the Pharisees would hopefully realize that they couldn't keep it and turn to Him for mercy instead.

When the rich young ruler asked Jesus to tell Him what good thing He could DO to obtain eternal life... Jesus wanted to destroy his trust in salvation by lawkeeping. So Jesus told him to keep the commandments.... especially not coveting (Jesus showed him that he wasn't keeping this one by challenging him to give up his posessions) and putting no other gods before God (Jesus showed him that he wasn't keeping this one by challenging him to leave everything and follow him). The Rich Young Ruler wouldn't do those things and so Jesus proved to Him that He wasn't really keeping the laws like He imagined he was. Jesus never told the young man the Gospel... he preached the LAW to him. Jesus was just showing the young man that He was failing to keep the law.

If you want to learn the GOSPEL read the book of John. That book was specifically written to explain how to receive eternal life. So was the book of Romans.

The word "gospel' is not in the greek in the titles of matthew mark and lukes' book. The greek does not say "the gospel according to Matthew' the greek only says "according to Matthew". same with the others. That is because they mostly are just the teachings of Jesus about the Kingdom of God and about the Law. John reveals the gospel.

Most of the Gospels are like that.... they teach us how strict the law is so that we will realize that we aren't keeping it and will quit trusting it for salvation and will look to Jesus' sacrifice at the cross to pay for our sins and redeem us.

The sermon on the mount was given to show people that if they want to be saved by the law then they are going to have to be absolutely perfect. If you want to be saved by the law... you not only must not commit adultery, you must not ever lust...even once. You must not only avoid murder... you must never be angry without cause even once. You must never speak even one idle word in your life. You must be perfect ... as much as the Father is perfect. If you mess up even once you cannot ever be saved.

The only other choice is the Gospel. The Gospel isn't the law. It is completely different. The Gospel is the GOOD NEWS that even though you are a worthless sinner who's righteousness is as a filthy rag in God's sight, nevertheless Jesus died on the cross and paid the penalty for all our sins and so we can be completely forgiven. Those who will quit trying to be saved by their morality and will instead trust Jesus to save them will be saved. Those who are trying to be saved by their attempts to keep the law will be lost.

The problem with many people is that they are filled with pride. In their arrogance they believe that others will not make it to heaven because they are so sinful but that they will make it because they are so zealous and committed to the morality Jesus taught in the sermon on the mount. Really they are just modern day Pharisees... and prostitutes will get into heaven before they do.

I realize that after a person is saved the Holy Spirit will enter them and help them live a more godly life... but that is the RESULT of Salvation not the cause of it. The way to be saved is by faith alone.

Amen Brother, I never get tired of reading posts like these...

-The Current Lowest Servant

 

[lori milne]

Where does this idea that those who are under grace want to sin come from?

Well I'm under grace and I struggle with my flesh daily as does every man.
There are many who fall back into perdition the bible warns us about stumbling

 

[lori milne]

Hi lori, I note that you don't like to answer difficult questions that challenges the doctrine that you are being led by. I pray that eventually you will rightly divide scripture and look to Christ our teacher (Matt 23:8, 1John 3:27), instead of whoever you are now following. 1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. And who denies that Jesus is the Christ? It's those in unbelief. That is those who seek to establish their own righteousness by works of the law instead of submitting to God's righteousness, Rom 10:3. And who seeks to establish their own righteousness? Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness (by works of the law), have not submitted to the righteousness of God. Gal 5:4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. I often find that those pastors who preach against so called "hypergrace", appear to be preaching a lukewarm mix of works of the law, with grace. God says we cannot mix works with grace. Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. It seems that you don't realize that what Christians repented of was "DEAD WORKS" of self-righteousness. And this repentance is a ONCE ONLY repentance, as the scripture below confirms. Heb 6:1-6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from DEAD WORKS and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. So you are correct in saying that your sins are covered under grace. Providing that you remain under grace, believing on Jesus. For those under grace, our faith is counted for righteousness, as Rom 4:5 says. Christians repented of DEAD WORKS of self-righteousness which we did in rebellion and unbelief in God. But when we receive Jesus we repented of these DEAD WORKS of self-righteousness/filthy rags (which was sin that Satan the accuser could accuse us with, Rev 17). And as we see in Heb 6:4-6 above, this repentance we did was a ONCE ONLY repentance. If someone truly had the truth ( as described in Heb 6:4-6) but then falls away from Christ (unbelief) turning back to works of the law, they make themselves a sinner again (Gal 2:18). So the doctrine you have heard of continual repentance, that is not supported in scripture. BTW, you say you don't "practice" sin. And I asked you before to give scripture detailing what is "practice""or "habitual" sin. As I expected, you could not provide any scripture to support your claim, because there is no scripture to support it. But as you mentioned "practice", "habitual" sin, can you tell us how often does God forgive Christians of sin? And remember that Jesus told us to forgive 7x70. Is this God's limit on forgiveness? Or are you saying that God is less forgiving than He calls for us to be?

Ware is works meaning to not sin?
Works are rituals and repetitious prayers I thought!?

At least if it weren't Jesus saying repent
And I give you the ability to ""turn "" from sin
Was misquoted or vs

Jesus answered and said But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
([bless and do not curse]John‬ [bless and do not curse]4‬:[bless and do not curse]13-14‬ KJV)

 

[lori milne]

Ware is works meaning to not sin? Works are rituals and repetitious prayers I thought!? At least if it weren't Jesus saying repent And I give you the ability to ""turn "" from sin Was misquoted or vs Jesus answered and said But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. ([bless and do not curse]John‬ [bless and do not curse]4‬:[bless and do not curse]13-14‬ KJV)

m

I hope to answer your questions sorry if I skipped anything ? I looked back to see which one I couldn't find it?

And it's only Jesus I quote mostly lol
I Tripp how we all have such wide ranges of understanding and truly I'm still learning all this ofun search for truth God is Great!
Let's not allow the devil in to ruin such excitement !!👍agreed " hand shake" lol

Yes I love your scriptures and almost see your view just the parts about Jesus teachings! I don't understand your view?
I get I we can't live In sin and in him and any
one who try's will love one and hate the other .
I also get repent.
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. But it means to turn from sin not ask for forgiveness so much cause he knows if your sorry !
I get from his parables
Of the sower we all are able to move and grow from the ground to the rocks to the weeds and then to good soil ! Amen

All these seeds have received the word / knowledge but but they do with there actually following is the result of the growth.

The Rocky ground is a Christian in the world after received the word but went back into the way he lived before , not sinning but being around a secular world and then he fell back into perdition/ his sin.
The weeds are a good Christian but isn't rooted in the faith of Christ meaning. His boss will say take Sunday's off or else we'll he will fear man and not God !
And then he fall away into the world and back into perdition / his sins!
And we all know the good soil I Always ask which ground are you in! I can say I'm finally trusting him so in moving into good soil but I still fear / trust !!

Just what I get that keeps me close to not sinning ! Accountability for sin is what is clear form Jesus to me.
Is love to hear what u get

 

[lori milne]

Hi lori, I note that you don't like to answer difficult questions that challenges the doctrine that you are being led by. I pray that eventually you will rightly divide scripture and look to Christ our teacher (Matt 23:8, 1John 3:27), instead of whoever you are now following. 1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. And who denies that Jesus is the Christ? It's those in unbelief. That is those who seek to establish their own righteousness by works of the law instead of submitting to God's righteousness, Rom 10:3. And who seeks to establish their own righteousness? Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness (by works of the law), have not submitted to the righteousness of God. Gal 5:4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. I often find that those pastors who preach against so called "hypergrace", appear to be preaching a lukewarm mix of works of the law, with grace. God says we cannot mix works with grace. Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. It seems that you don't realize that what Christians repented of was "DEAD WORKS" of self-righteousness. And this repentance is a ONCE ONLY repentance, as the scripture below confirms. Heb 6:1-6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from DEAD WORKS and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. So you are correct in saying that your sins are covered under grace. Providing that you remain under grace, believing on Jesus. For those under grace, our faith is counted for righteousness, as Rom 4:5 says. Christians repented of DEAD WORKS of self-righteousness which we did in rebellion and unbelief in God. But when we receive Jesus we repented of these DEAD WORKS of self-righteousness/filthy rags (which was sin that Satan the accuser could accuse us with, Rev 17). And as we see in Heb 6:4-6 above, this repentance we did was a ONCE ONLY repentance. If someone truly had the truth ( as described in Heb 6:4-6) but then falls away from Christ (unbelief) turning back to works of the law, they make themselves a sinner again (Gal 2:18). So the doctrine you have heard of continual repentance, that is not supported in scripture. BTW, you say you don't "practice" sin. And I asked you before to give scripture detailing what is "practice""or "habitual" sin. As I expected, you could not provide any scripture to support your claim, because there is no scripture to support it. But as you mentioned "practice", "habitual" sin, can you tell us how often does God forgive Christians of sin? And remember that Jesus told us to forgive 7x70. Is this God's limit on forgiveness? Or are you saying that God is less forgiving than He calls for us to be?

The answer is iniquity for the 77th time lol
What is habitual sin it to practice sin.
I answer that
And the 7x70 is for man to forgive man
God will forgive us as much but not if we live in sin and say we're saved!
You can say your saved and lie to your self but God knows
Continued sins are NOT COVARD you must repent : / turn or burn is the old way to say it lol

 

[Steeno7]

Well I'm under grace and I struggle with my flesh daily as does every man.
There are many who fall back into perdition the bible warns us about stumbling

If you "want" to sin because you think you are under grace, then speak for yourself and preach to yourself. Do not preach to others and condemn them as being like yourself in "wanting" to sin because they are under Grace. Because it simply isn't true of myself or any Christian I have ever known.

 

[lori milne]

If you "want" to sin because you think you are under grace, then speak for yourself and preach to yourself. Do not preach to others and condemn them as being like yourself in "wanting" to sin because they are under Grace. Because it simply isn't true of myself or any Christian I have ever known.

I'm speaking for every man & women we all struggle with are sins if you say you don't then it's you who speaks for your self!
This is since Adam and the first sin!

 

[lori milne]

I'm speaking for every man & women we all struggle with are sins if you say you don't then it's you who speaks for your self! This is since Adam and the first sin!

And just incase u misunderstood
Under Grace isn't what makes you want to sin in my book o never even said that?
It doesn't cover perdition or willful sin?!

 

[lori milne]

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. ([bless and do not curse]Romans‬ [bless and do not curse]6‬:[bless and do not curse]15‬ KJV)

 

[Steeno7]

I'm speaking for every man & women we all struggle with are sins if you say you don't then it's you who speaks for your self!
This is since Adam and the first sin!

I'm a Christian who is under the grace of God and I do not "want" to sin because I am under grace. You do not speak for me.

 

[FanthatSpark]

Lori.

The following is the first in terminology of the title pulled from "Falling from Grace" thread.

You saying to sin is good? Or bad?
I do t understand a lot but what I did get out of what you said seems you missed the accountability portion?!
If you just leave out sone of the word and read the fluffy stuff that you can sin scripture and forget the rest then your just missing the point of Jesus teachings! And the entire bible. This is Timothy written by and or through Paul

But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (NOTE through faith NOT grace is taught be Jesus faith to allow us to ACTUALLY turn from sin) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. (THIS IS literal perfect in works is not spot free through grace) ]2 Timothy‬ 3‬:13-17‬ KJV) The Entire bible is needed to live a sin free life not just a few versus that give you a sin free card That's cheep grace or hyper grace or Calvinistic Hope to enlighten not provoke in any way God bless
Hope I didn't completely miss your point?[/quote]

Spirit of God which is the same inside you as any believer in Christ is now the measure. Things like intimidation of stature from another human will one day no longer exist in the measure for your loyalties shift to God as the measure increases. Main reason you are here because discrepancies are arising in belief vs your preacher. What needs to be understood is that the Baptist religion boxes that which can not be boxed Lori. You know I too come in training in the Baptist tradition as partial testimony states in your other thread. Your measure is increasing and you are applying 1 Tim in reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness. Let me share this in what righteousness looks like ...

An individual that can not read but was saved and has a true smile in joy is on their face and a sincere God bless on the lips. They do labor details in the church in the joy of doing them. They never seek a problem and do not share theirs for they give them to God until a real need of anothers help is required but if a problem is made known to them they will help or refer in love & compassion. They posses no knowledge of scripture but are ate up in the fruits of the spirit (Galatians 5: 22-23 personified) and they shine like no other. Matt 5: 14-16.

Had the pleasure of meeting one of these where God used a life experience to gain a valuable lesson in all my knowledge of the Word that said knowledge was the block to Spirit in faith for this one combated sin in knowledge of it = law. No love and learning of love was in me. That individual above has a joy this one wanted so bad but too much of "me" was in the way in clutter of knowledge in the mind of the OT and NT for application with no love. It was the goal in that other thread to show through this ones suffering through knowledge without love first learned of in Gods unfathomable love NT there was no faith in His ability to forget sin because "I" remember it on my own and that is continuous condemnation or loop algorithm in negativity.

On first meeting that illiterate individual a true want of that joy was in me yet confusion was more manifest and that led to jealousy of her light. The connection in retrospect of today to look at things in Gods love to use experience of the meeting of her in putting self next to her in an examination of self in what motivates her and what motivated me in that season. The end result brings tears to my eyes even writing this... Faith in love complete in God, which when an aspect of His love comes and is excepted in totality a little increase in the measure is granted, then another aspect of Gods love excepted in totality (equals faith) and another increase in the measure. What that illiterate individual has is strong faith. So , look inside of you Lori and use God as the teacher for your Spirit in yes, NT only to perfect love, not fear. There is no fear in that illiterate individual, she operates on pure love
and that is true righteousness because she does not know what fear looks like and quests not to find out in knowledge. This one tries to speak in love, not knowledge, of the entire bible, Lori . In reality it is not needed... See the illiterate believer that can not use the entire bible to live sin free, stronger in pure faith than most knowledgeable. So, in your knowledge, you ask if I mean sin is ok. For me, if love is at forefront, continued forgiveness is all this vessel can offer for who am I to judge for this one was a heavy transgressor? Sin is reality of this realm and James 1:27 is all that this one can hold. Compassion and a true curiosity to understand how one came to think the affliction is OK to them and , offer truth. A lot of people think compassion means go to sadness and feel their pain. To do that negates James 1:27 for now I conform Rom 12;2 to negate the joy inside. Living in the Spirit is weird to people, for example. I come to a funeral of a "believer" where there is gnashing in negativity in tears and pain. This one has got a smile and joy in celebration for the wage is paid. This one receives a fist in mouth for the celebratory attitude in their non faith in God & heaven. Thus this verse is not fulfilled Phill 1:21 in a total belief and sincere ignorance is the fist in mouth.

TRUTH: We the vessel can hold but one, love or fear. To add knowledge to it and build our minds around the choice chosen of the two. Confusion comes to the straddler of the fence unlike the illiterate one described above, True or False? Pray on that in the testing of the Spirit before answering our known limitation.
A season to add to the choice is process/sanctification. This one chooses love and sequesters in NT only to learn of love in all of its foibles in receiving Gods love to applying Gods love to faith in that love, praises in that love God bestows on this, the undeserving, until it starts flowing out in no doubt of Gods love . Just like that that illiterate one. Today, for me, all knowledge stems from love first NT. A different perspective arises in the much later visiting of OT teachings that that book can not be followed under love because love works in this manner .... Rom;12:2-3 connected to Heb 4:12 where true transformation of the mind is love as "concept" of God, in God, exuded out of the vessel in pure selflessness and looks like Galatians 5: 22-23 after love is instilled in the mind even to the non reader for it works inside out as "concept" not knowledge. Separation of love comes in this terminology for the knowledgeable Spirit/God/Jesus/NT/trinity/Source of love. Manifestation of love given through Gods understanding are the fruits even to the non reader. True or False? The non reader has a truer grasp in faith because we straddle the fence in knowledge for knowledges sake = use the whole bible. True or False? Lets add more terminology to the term concept. Spiritual conceptual thinking.. No bible added, thus, the illiterate one described thinks in this manner.

In hopes something edifying is shared . P.S. Grace/Justification/Spiritual Baptism/ His gift to the believer in Jesus is assumed . Grace is Gods realm. There is no want, to sin in reciprocation of that grace.

 

[lori milne]

I'm a Christian who is under the grace of God and I do not "want" to sin because I am under grace. You do not speak for me.

I don't want or willfully sin either Thank God but pride is a sin hating your brother is the same as Murder and lusting after the flesh is the same as adultery. All this can be controlled with being in the spirit!
I struggle with pride and anger.
If I let my flesh take over in those moments watch out I need to be in the spirit to control that!
Is Willful sin to you , is like something you choose vs something you are trying to control that's instinctual?
I don't willfully sin either of THATS what you mean?
David committed iniquity so did Peter as did Abraham. And the were all faced with guilt.
When you justify it with grace or don't feel bad is when your living in sin.

 

[lori milne]

I'm a Christian who is under the grace of God and I do not "want" to sin because I am under grace. You do not speak for me.

Question about predestination . do you feel you were predestined or are among a few selected for Gods grace?

 

[lori milne]

Lori. The following is the first in terminology of the title pulled from "Falling from Grace" thread. You saying to sin is good? Or bad? I do t understand a lot but what I did get out of what you said seems you missed the accountability portion?! If you just leave out sone of the word and read the fluffy stuff that you can sin scripture and forget the rest then your just missing the point of Jesus teachings! And the entire bible. This is Timothy written by and or through Paul But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (NOTE through faith NOT grace is taught be Jesus faith to allow us to ACTUALLY turn from sin) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. (THIS IS literal perfect in works is not spot free through grace) ]2 Timothy‬ 3‬:13-17‬ KJV) The Entire bible is needed to live a sin free life not just a few versus that give you a sin free card That's cheep grace or hyper grace or Calvinistic Hope to enlighten not provoke in any way God bless Hope I didn't completely miss your point?

Spirit of God which is the same inside you as any believer in Christ is now the measure. Things like intimidation of stature from another human will one day no longer exist in the measure for your loyalties shift to God as the measure increases. Main reason you are here because discrepancies are arising in belief vs your preacher. What needs to be understood is that the Baptist religion boxes that which can not be boxed Lori. You know I too come in training in the Baptist tradition as partial testimony states in your other thread. Your measure is increasing and you are applying 1 Tim in reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness. Let me share this in what righteousness looks like ... An individual that can not read but was saved and has a true smile in joy is on their face and a sincere God bless on the lips. They do labor details in the church in the joy of doing them. They never seek a problem and do not share theirs for they give them to God until a real need of anothers help is required but if a problem is made known to them they will help or refer in love & compassion. They posses no knowledge of scripture but are ate up in the fruits of the spirit (Galatians 5: 22-23 personified) and they shine like no other. Matt 5: 14-16. Had the pleasure of meeting one of these where God used a life experience to gain a valuable lesson in all my knowledge of the Word that said knowledge was the block to Spirit in faith for this one combated sin in knowledge of it = law. No love and learning of love was in me. That individual above has a joy this one wanted so bad but too much of "me" was in the way in clutter of knowledge in the mind of the OT and NT for application with no love. It was the goal in that other thread to show through this ones suffering through knowledge without love first learned of in Gods unfathomable love NT there was no faith in His ability to forget sin because "I" remember it on my own and that is continuous condemnation or loop algorithm in negativity. On first meeting that illiterate individual a true want of that joy was in me yet confusion was more manifest and that led to jealousy of her light. The connection in retrospect of today to look at things in Gods love to use experience of the meeting of her in putting self next to her in an examination of self in what motivates her and what motivated me in that season. The end result brings tears to my eyes even writing this... Faith in love complete in God, which when an aspect of His love comes and is excepted in totality a little increase in the measure is granted, then another aspect of Gods love excepted in totality (equals faith) and another increase in the measure. What that illiterate individual has is strong faith. So , look inside of you Lori and use God as the teacher for your Spirit in yes, NT only to perfect love, not fear. There is no fear in that illiterate individual, she operates on pure love and that is true righteousness because she does not know what fear looks like and quests not to find out in knowledge. This one tries to speak in love, not knowledge, of the entire bible, Lori . In reality it is not needed... See the illiterate believer that can not use the entire bible to live sin free, stronger in pure faith than most knowledgeable. So, in your knowledge, you ask if I mean sin is ok. For me, if love is at forefront, continued forgiveness is all this vessel can offer for who am I to judge for this one was a heavy transgressor? Sin is reality of this realm and James 1:27 is all that this one can hold. Compassion and a true curiosity to understand how one came to think the affliction is OK to them and , offer truth. A lot of people think compassion means go to sadness and feel their pain. To do that negates James 1:27 for now I conform Rom 12;2 to negate the joy inside. Living in the Spirit is weird to people, for example. I come to a funeral of a "believer" where there is gnashing in negativity in tears and pain. This one has got a smile and joy in celebration for the wage is paid. This one receives a fist in mouth for the celebratory attitude in their non faith in God & heaven. Thus this verse is not fulfilled Phill 1:21 in a total belief and sincere ignorance is the fist in mouth. TRUTH: We the vessel can hold but one, love or fear. To add knowledge to it and build our minds around the choice chosen of the two. Confusion comes to the straddler of the fence unlike the illiterate one described above, True or False? Pray on that in the testing of the Spirit before answering our known limitation. A season to add to the choice is process/sanctification. This one chooses love and sequesters in NT only to learn of love in all of its foibles in receiving Gods love to applying Gods love to faith in that love, praises in that love God bestows on this, the undeserving, until it starts flowing out in no doubt of Gods love . Just like that that illiterate one. Today, for me, all knowledge stems from love first NT. A different perspective arises in the much later visiting of OT teachings that that book can not be followed under love because love works in this manner .... Rom;12:2-3 connected to Heb 4:12 where true transformation of the mind is love as "concept" of God, in God, exuded out of the vessel in pure selflessness and looks like Galatians 5: 22-23 after love is instilled in the mind even to the non reader for it works inside out as "concept" not knowledge. Separation of love comes in this terminology for the knowledgeable Spirit/God/Jesus/NT/trinity/Source of love. Manifestation of love given through Gods understanding are the fruits even to the non reader. True or False? The non reader has a truer grasp in faith because we straddle the fence in knowledge for knowledges sake = use the whole bible. True or False? Lets add more terminology to the term concept. Spiritual conceptual thinking.. No bible added, thus, the illiterate one described thinks in this manner. In hopes something edifying is shared . P.S. Grace/Justification/Spiritual Baptism/ His gift to the believer in Jesus is assumed . Grace is Gods realm. There is no want, to sin in reciprocation of that grace.[/QUOTE]


Yes if we could truly feel all the Love God has for us I don't think we could actually stop worshiping him warm feeling of unending Love unspeakable love is just an awesome and love feeling thought!
I was raised baptis and was spanked by my farther when I was bad he loved me after word and spoke to me if my wrong doings he to me was the best and strongest God fearing man I know!

My fear of God is not Him/God the fear is what I will loose if I walk away from him! And sin is a snare like Pharos heart with Moses, God mad it hard /
unreconcilable .
There is a point when you turn and there is no lite your in darkness and you forget so much of Gods grace and love like a man forgetting his own face!
My fear is what I can become with out Him.
I think it's neat to see every one have a special walk or different take on scripture cause it's the lesson there in or what ever

 

[Steeno7]

Question about predestination . do you feel you were predestined or are among a few selected for Gods grace?

No.

 

[lori milne]

Also I read and study because Jesus says eat if my flesh drink of my blood
Which is read the word and have faith in it!
I heard Jesus means the word.
The armor of God needs a sword and that is the word

Fearing the lord is to fear what life would be with out him.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. ([bless and do not curse]2 Corinthians‬ [bless and do not curse]7‬:[bless and do not curse]1‬ KJV)

 

[lori milne]

No.

So you believe in free will or that a man can walk away from grace?
In the manner below

If they shall fall away, to renew them ""again ""unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. ([bless and do not curse]Hebrews‬ [bless and do not curse]6‬:[bless and do not curse]6‬ KJV)

 

[Steeno7]

I don't want or willfully sin either Thank God but pride is a sin hating your brother is the same as Murder and lusting after the flesh is the same as adultery. All this can be controlled with being in the spirit!
I struggle with pride and anger.
If I let my flesh take over in those moments watch out I need to be in the spirit to control that!
Is Willful sin to you , is like something you choose vs something you are trying to control that's instinctual?
I don't willfully sin either of THATS what you mean?
David committed iniquity so did Peter as did Abraham. And the were all faced with guilt.
When you justify it with grace or don't feel bad is when your living in sin.

So you only sin by mistake?

 

[Steeno7]

So you believe in free will or that a man can walk away from grace?

I believe we all have the freedom to choose from the choices available to us. And that once Christ has us in His hands He never relaxes His grip on us.

If they shall fall away, to renew them ""again ""unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. ([bless and do not curse]Hebrews‬ [bless and do not curse]6‬:[bless and do not curse]6‬ KJV)

I believe even you don't really believe what you try to make that Hebrews passage mean.