Is it ok to kill someone as a soldier?

[NothingIsImpossible]

So I seen a video on a website (I can't find it now to post) last week and it was of two christians at a church event debating killing.

The soldier said he had to kill someone in the Army when he was overseas and he felt it was ok to do and God would be ok with it since in the bible it says laying down your life to protect yourself when left with no choices is ok to do. Even more so if your protecting someone else.

But the other man feels it was bad and a sin really. He said killing the man could have been avoided if the man had not joined the army. In other words he made the choice to join and left himself no option but to have to kill someone if the time came. So it may have been self defense, but it all could have been avoided and therefor the soldier sinned because he shouldn't have put himself in that situation. Essentially a christian should't join something that lets you kill people.

They continued to debate and eventually argued and said harsh things. So what is your view on this? Is killing a man as a citizen different then killing a man as a soldier since you put yourself in that situation? I have opinion either way really since in the end God decides what is wrong/right.

 

[High Fidelity]

The soldier said he had to kill someone in the Army when he was overseas and he felt it was ok to do and God would be ok with it since in the bible it says laying down your life to protect yourself when left with no choices is ok to do. Even more so if your protecting someone else.

The problem then arises with is it justifiable if you are the one putting yourself in that situation?

If I, for example, bully someone relentlessly until they crack and assault me to the point where I fear my life and I react accordingly and consequently take the life of the person attacking me, am I free from guilt? Absolutely not.

In most cases, I struggle to see any difference.

If anything I think we should be avoiding all instances of involvement, instigation or otherwise where the loss of life is probable, especially by our own hand.

 

[psalms 91]

If it is sin then there were many in the Old Testanment that fought with God before them that were in sin. No, it is not sin or else David and Josuha and others were all sinners in this . Was God a sinner when He destroyed the Egyptians

 

[aiki]

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

Imagine what would have happened if every man who has fought to prevent the murderous evil of fascism and tyranny had thought doing so was sin and had abstained! What a terrible thought! But this is what religious pacifism would have dictated! Sometimes the destruction and death of the battlefield is the only way great evils may be prevented.

I cannot imagine abstaining from violence on religious grounds while a stranger attacked and murdered my wife. What an obscene idea! Am I obliged as a believer to stand passive while a mugger stabs me to death with a knife? I think not! Should I go looking for a fight? No, of course not. But defending human rights and freedoms, protecting others from the oppression and evil of wicked men, is my duty as one who values these rights and freedoms and the sanctity of human life imparted to humanity by God. Ironically, sometimes the preservation of these things involves violence and death.

Selah.

 

[bottledwater]

Yes it is wrong to kill another person, regardless of what your job is, or why you are doing it. There is no excuse for it.

What part of love your neighbor, don't you understand?

 

[LoricaLady]

When one is holding a gun or other weapon aimed at another human being, I think it is important to ask a few Qs. Is the cause one is fighting for truly a good cause? For ex. in Viet Nam, was it really right to go in there and slaughter and injure millions of people, including young American boys? What good did it do? How did it "Save the world for democracy"? How do we know a war isn't being created to build up the coffers of those who make money off of weaponry and such?

Another Q would be, Who is the weapon pointed at? Some poor dumb kid who really doesn't understand what it's all about, or an evil, malicious enemy?

I have heard that it has not been uncommon, at least in the USA, for soldiers to shoot but not aim to kill, and deliberately miss their targets because they just didn't want to kill someone else's child.

I have left a link of a movie/documentary, a true story, of a conscientious objector. He did not want to kill anyone, but he did want to save lives. He became a medic in WW2 and did just that in amazing, even miraculous ways, as the story shows. He received a great deal of pressure from the army and those in his company, for not wanting to carry a rifle, but he stayed true to his beliefs and in the end found some of those very people thanking him for saving their lives in very heroic ways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV19wkdgCKU

I pray you will never have to make the choice of whether or not to kill anyone, but that if you ever are in such a situation that you will be guided by the Holy Spirit, who knows all hearts and the future of all actions, to do whatever HE thinks is best.

 

[Kingsdotter]

If we didn't have soldiers, lawless people will be free to kill as many innocent people as they want. Imagine Iraq or Syria without Soldiers. No doubt soldiers are needed to protect innocent, defenceless people. If a soldier has to kill in defence of himself or others, no one is in a position to judge him except God. For me, I don't see anything wrong in saving lives which I think is what soldiers do

 

[ValleyGal]

Imo, there are consequences to killing, no matter if it is justified or not. Moses killed someone, and later had a huge mission in fulfilling God's purpose, but he was not allowed to enter the promised land because of having killed. David killed in battle, and he was not allowed to see the completion of the temple building, etc. So while God may judge the heart in each situation, whether he considers it "sin" or not, there are still consequences attached to disobeying the command to not kill....something every single person alive is guilty of, since Jesus said in Matthew 5:22 that if you are even angry with your brother, you are subject to judgement.

 

[Radagast]

There are soldiers in the Bible, and when soldiers in the New Testament ask what they should do, they are never told to stop soldiering.

That said, however, there were a few early Christians who did feel that being a soldier was wrong.

 

[BFine]

All have been or are guilty of violence/hatred/murder...whether in thought or deed.
Hatred, is the same as murder-- 1 John 3:15.

Murder is the unlawful taking of a human life... example:
Cain murdering Abel.

God allowed the Israelites to kill other humans under these circumstances
such as punishment for certain sins, for example, murder: Exodus 21:12-14,
Leviticus 24:17, 21 and adultery: Leviticus 20:10.

When soldiers(who were baptized) asked what they should do...they were instructed
not use threats or lie to extort money and that they should be satisfied
with their wages...Luke 3:14. I haven't found anything about them being told
to stop being a soldier... Jesus commended a centurion for his great faith --
John the baptist nor the Lord told them to stop being soldiers.

The bible also mentions about acting according to one's conscious... so if one feels
it's sin for himself to go to war, then that person shouldn't. Some feel it's wrong/sinful
to eat meat, that's their right... I don't find it is OK to force what we feel is sin or wrong
onto someone else... Romans 14:2–3

God acknowledged that humans might accidentally kill each other,
and He made provisions for this: Numbers 35:9-34; Deuteronomy 19:1-13.

Also:
Moses wasn't allowed to enter the Promise Land because of this: Numbers 20:12

 

[bottledwater]

Yes it is wrong to kill another person, regardless of what your job is, or why you are doing it. There is no excuse for it.

What part of love your neighbor, don't you understand?

 

[football5680]

Killing in a war can be justifiable but it is not always justifiable.

The argument about him having the choice to join the military or not is very weak in my eyes. If the individual joined the military to protect his country then his cause was righteous and if he had to kill an enemy then it would be justified and not a sin.

It does not happen very often today but in the past people would go to war just so they could pillage and loot other people and although this may have technically been a war where they were fighting an enemy, any killing done on the side of the people who started the conflict would not be justified.

 

[DiscipleHeLovesToo]

As in all things spiritual, I believe it depends on the intent of the heart. When God told the Israelites through Moses "thou shalt not kill", I believe he was referring to the intent that causes the action that takes a life, rather than the action itself. When God sent the Israelites into the land of Canaan and told them to drive the inhabitants out before them, and to kill all who resisted, from the standpoint of intent it was God's decision to kill, not the decision of those whose actions resulted in the loss of life. God clearly has reserved the right to judge people for himself alone, and we know that his decision to take life in the Old Testament was righteous because he is righteous. God clearly tells us not to judge others; so killing out of judgment is wrong.

Act 22:4 KJV
(4) And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

In Acts 22:4, Paul indicates that he persecuted the Christians 'unto the death', but later says he obtained mercy because he did it ignorantly.

Most people who join the military do so at a young age, and likely don't think about the effect that taking another life will have on them. No doubt there are some that join the military specifically so that they can legally kill other people; but I believe that this is a tiny minority of the people who do join the military. While a strong sense of patriotism does motivate a few, the vast majority of the people who join the military do so because it is the best option that they see they have available to them to have financial security in life, and likely do not consider what effect that taking another life will have on them.

In a war the decision to kill is actually made by the politicians who declare the war or authorize the use of military force to achieve a political goal; and none but God can say for sure whether they do so at his leading or according to their own limited intellect and understanding. By the time a soldier finds themselves facing an armed enemy whom they have reason to believe intends to kill them, the decision to kill has already been made by the politicians that sent them to the battlefield.

At the same time, killing another human being is obviously an action that the person who is killed can never recover from in this world; when you kill someone, you take away everything they have and everything they ever will have in this world.

Given that we as Christians have a ministry of reconciliation where we are to strive to bring people into fellowship with God based on faith in his undeserved favor and unlimited love and mercy towards us, we would be wise to avoid situations where we might have to decide whether to sacrifice our own lives in order to avoid killing another person; once in such a situation the only godly thing we can do is seek to be led by him in the decision to kill or not. As long as our heart is set to not judge another person unto death, but rather yield to the leading of the Lord as the only qualified judge, mercy can be obtained for taking another life just as Paul obtained mercy for persecuting Christians unto death.

A better question to ask is "is there ever a situation where we as Christians can judge by our own intellect and understanding that it is righteous to kill?"

 

[parsley]

So many well-worded statements above.

There may also be a difference within us on what we believe is ethically wrong, and what we believe is sin against God. It is worth resolving that before we are confronted with a sudden decision.

Someone could be afraid of displeasing God by killing one of His creations.
Or someone could feel they are defending God's honor by starting a holy war.

Scriptures show a balance that echoes many of our sensibilities. Defend justice and the safety of the innocent. There are some areas we might not agree with, but if we were in a position of having territory taken, it would make more sense.

In a world filled with greed and fear of lack, territory needs to be defended or it will be taken.

 

[aChildOfMary]

I think there is a huge difference in say, defending your own nations boarders against enemies and say travel to Afghanistan to "enforce" democracy on them.

If our leaders sends us away to occupate a foreign country with lethal force then it doesn't matter what they use as an excuse, if it's a proactive war to avoid extremism or if it is to end Saddam Husseins regime in Iraq.

This is to start a war and all kills made by the intruding part of the conflict is murder in my opinion.

When it comes to defend onself it's an entirely different story IMO.




Pax Christi
aChildOfMary

 

[Scottmcc1]

Romans 13:4 NASB
"for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil."

 

[bottledwater]

If we didn't have soldiers, lawless people will be free to kill as many innocent people as they want. Imagine Iraq or Syria without Soldiers. No doubt soldiers are needed to protect innocent, defenceless people. If a soldier has to kill in defence of himself or others, no one is in a position to judge him except God. For me, I don't see anything wrong in saving lives which I think is what soldiers do

You say that nobody has the right to judge, yet the bible says to judge in righteousness. That means we are supposed to judge everything in retrospect to God's law.
You judged yourself when you said, "I don't see anything wrong in saving lives which I think is what soldiers do". That was making a judgement. The problem with your judgement, is that you didn't judge in righteousness. Remember that judging in righteousness is to judge everything in retrospect to God's law.
Well, Thou shalt not kill. What do you think a soldier has to do to save lives. he has to take lives. you think it is great because it is done under the banner of freedom. As soft and fluffy as that may seem. What about those people that have to give up their freedom so that we can feel all soft and fluffy? Little children that are going to bed scared an hungry. Where is the justice in that. Jesus had the perfect peace plan that ensured everyone's freedom rights. Thou shalt not kill.
Whether it is you transgressing that law, or a terrorist. Somebody is still going to lose their freedom rights because the law was transgressed.
God had a point to the ten commandments.
Anyways, I hope that you have a fat supper and your sleep is sweet, while there are little boys and girls that have no food, and are crying out in the darkness. Quite possibly because some soldier killed their parents.

 

[bottledwater]

There are soldiers in the Bible, and when soldiers in the New Testament ask what they should do, they are never told to stop soldiering.

That said, however, there were a few early Christians who did feel that being a soldier was wrong.

You are right, they are actually told to love their neighbor.

 

[Inkfingers]

So I seen a video on a website (I can't find it now to post) last week and it was of two christians at a church event debating killing.

The soldier said he had to kill someone in the Army when he was overseas and he felt it was ok to do and God would be ok with it since in the bible it says laying down your life to protect yourself when left with no choices is ok to do. Even more so if your protecting someone else.

But the other man feels it was bad and a sin really. He said killing the man could have been avoided if the man had not joined the army. In other words he made the choice to join and left himself no option but to have to kill someone if the time came. So it may have been self defense, but it all could have been avoided and therefor the soldier sinned because he shouldn't have put himself in that situation. Essentially a christian should't join something that lets you kill people.

They continued to debate and eventually argued and said harsh things. So what is your view on this? Is killing a man as a citizen different then killing a man as a soldier since you put yourself in that situation? I have opinion either way really since in the end God decides what is wrong/right.

Not all wars are just.

And not all killing is unjust.

Too often our military is nothing more than the armed wing of greed and corruption. But at other times it defends against the presence of very real danger. Turning the other cheek is a response to insult, not murderous attack.

"Those without swords can still die upon them" (JRR Tolkien)

Just because those who live by the sword will die by the sword, it does not follow that those who refuse the sword will be imune to the sword.

Shepherds do not just feed sheep. They also have to fight off wolves.

 

[bottledwater]

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke.

Imagine what would have happened if every man who has fought to prevent the murderous evil of fascism and tyranny had thought doing so was sin and had abstained! What a terrible thought! But this is what religious pacifism would have dictated! Sometimes the destruction and death of the battlefield is the only way great evils may be prevented.

I cannot imagine abstaining from violence on religious grounds while a stranger attacked and murdered my wife. What an obscene idea! Am I obliged as a believer to stand passive while a mugger stabs me to death with a knife? I think not! Should I go looking for a fight? No, of course not. But defending human rights and freedoms, protecting others from the oppression and evil of wicked men, is my duty as one who values these rights and freedoms and the sanctity of human life imparted to humanity by God. Ironically, sometimes the preservation of these things involves violence and death.

Selah.

I abstain because violence is the lowest form that a man can take on. A brute mentality, rather than civil resolve. Life is fleeting, regardless of whether or not I stand by and let a mugger cut my throat. I will trust my fate to God. Even in death He will not abandon me. I see death as a far greater reward than taking someones miserable life in order to save mine. Only to lose it to time or circumstance.