Is it ok to kill someone as a soldier?

[Radagast]

I abstain because violence is the lowest form that a man can take on. A brute mentality, rather than civil resolve. Life is fleeting, regardless of whether or not I stand by and let a mugger cut my throat. I will trust my fate to God. Even in death He will not abandon me. I see death as a far greater reward than taking someones miserable life in order to save mine. Only to lose it to time or circumstance.

Easy words to say, when you sleep under the protection of armed soldiers and armed policemen.

 

[Inkfingers]

Easy words to say, when you sleep under the protection of armed soldiers and armed policemen.

Indeed.

Its easy to be a pacifist when others guard the walls.

Its only when there are no walls, and no one standing them, that the truth is really seen.

 

[DiscipleHeLovesToo]

Psa 127:1 KJV
(1) A Song of degrees for Solomon. Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

 

[Inkfingers]

Psa 127:1 KJV
(1) A Song of degrees for Solomon. Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

The fact that God decides which battles are won and which are lost does not mean you do not need someone to stand the watch. I'd hazard a guess that God makes the armies victorious that actually stand guard and fight....and makes the armies lose who do not stand guard and fight.

 

[DiscipleHeLovesToo]

you don't need to guess - the bible answers this. look at what happened to the children of israel in Numbers 13 and 14.

 

[Inkfingers]

you don't need to guess - the bible answers this. look at what happened to the children of israel in Numbers 13 and 14.

Could you be a little more specific; the book of numbers reads like double-entry book-keeping I'm guessing that God says guard the walls for a reason and not just for decorative sake...

 

[Inkfingers]

The truth* is that your need to stay alive is not a good moral wheel... why would your need to stay alive change the morality of killing another human?

Because you don't want to die? That isn't truth* it's merely desire and your moral system is only meeting your needs.

I think killing people is always wrong, just because you think you NEED to kill because you don't want to die wouldn't change that.

The truth is that murder, not killing, is wrong. Murder is the proactive taking of a life. Defence is the reactive taking of the life of one who thought it okay to initiate violence. Big difference.

I think killing people is always wrong

I am a service member in the United States Army.

So, are you trolling us, or just being monumentally hypocritical?

 

[Inkfingers]

if you had read all of that post you'd probably know the answer...

I did read all of your post.

I say ALL killing is wrong, I accept doing it because I don't want to die... but im not false enough to claim that my desire to not die changes what's right and wrong much less the killing of other human beings.

If you genuinely believe something to be wrong, you don't do it. If you genuinely believe that "ALL" killing is wrong, you don't join the army.

I think that you need to sit down and give serious consideration to what you actually believe, because we know a tree by its fruits not just its words.

 

[Inkfingers]

Why would it cause me to not join the Army? I make a choice... I can do what I think is right, or I can protect my family... I chose to protect my family etc. I'm just not lacking in mind enough to think my need changes what is right and wrong.

It is our actions that show what we really believe...

 

[Inkfingers]

Have you ever heard of cognitive dissonance?

Of course.

Cognitive dissonance is conflict between what we actually believe and what we would like to believe.

You cannot seriously claim that you believe that ALL killing is wrong and yet join the army. The idea is preposterous.

 

[Inkfingers]

no... cognitive dissonance is holding contradictory beliefs and it is the psychological stress that it creates.

That is a Pop-psychology definition.

In actuality its a conflict between what you believe and what you think you are supposed to believe.

If you genuinely believe that ALL killing is wrong, you don't kill.

If you kill, you do not really believe that ALL killing is wrong.

Its not complicated, but people try to make it complicated to support silly unsubstantiated claims. We know a tree by its fruits, not simply its words.

But I have told you this, and you ignore it, so there is nothing more to say here.

 

[Inkfingers]

Inkfingers

I'm pretty sure Dr. Leon Festinger who wrote about this back in the 50's isn't a pop wanna be psychologist.

Your claim that I'd never kill just because I think it's wrong is the winner of the unsubstantiated thought of the day award.

I mean, you're a Christian who still commits sins right? Do you claim that your committing a sin changes that it's a sin?

Your statement about how difficult pacifism is shows your desperation to support unsubstantiated claims.

I may claim that I think sins are wrong....but if I commit sins, it shows what I really believe about that.

If you kill, you by definition do not believe that ALL killing is wrong.

But as I said, there is nothing more to say here.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Very good replies. Interesting comments back and forth. Personally I sort of lean towards thinking becoming a soldier means chancing that you might have to kill someone. So I couldn't do it. Do I think its a sin since you chose to be a soldier? I truly don't know. Self defense is a hard thing to determine for me in that situation since I set myself up to be facing an enemy.

However I do believe if faced with my life or yours in terms of bad guy holding you and family at gun point, in that case I would have to rush for his gun and kill him because there was no choice. Well.. the only choice would be to let him kill me, my wife...etc. I think that would upset God because we are suppose to protect our family. Lay down our lifes if need be. Tough I'd rather injury the intruder so he can still go to jail.

After all he probably has family. Maybe even a spouse and kids. And he may be robbing me because maybe hes at a break point. Like his cars being repossessed, hes losing his house...etc. I understand what its like to be at wits end and feel trapped. And if I injury him I could go to the jail and witness to him. Forgive him. I think its a great gateway into him seeing things differently. It may be the biggest change hes made in his life. Where as if I kill him and he wasn't saved then hes lost forever.

Now one thing I thought about and I'd like to see what people say is what if someone holds a gun to your head and tells you to claim God is not real? What if the gun is pointed at your spouses head? Do you give in? I'd hope not. I'd go with the rushing him thing again.

 

[bottledwater]

Judging by the poll results. The majority of you that voted, place Jesus' command to love your neighbor behind your own well being, and your country.
Maybe this is why you are struggling in your faith. You have your priorities all mixed up.
I am pretty sure that wrapping a flag around you is not going to get you into Heaven. But, being covered in the righteousness of the Lamb of God will.

 

[psalms 91]

Judging by the poll results. The majority of you that voted, place Jesus' command to love your neighbor behind your own well being, and your country.
Maybe this is why you are struggling in your faith. You have your priorities all mixed up.
I am pretty sure that wrapping a flag around you is not going to get you into Heaven. But, being covered in the righteousness of the Lamb of God will.

Denyiing that even the bible condoned killing in certain instances is ripping pages out of your bible

 

[DiscipleHeLovesToo]

Well supposedly a "desire to get into heaven" isn't what gets you into heaven either. You're supposed to be morally and spiritually good, not just intent on getting through the gates.

Well since I'm not a Christian anymore that's my last comment here. Nice chat.

what gets you into heaven is putting faith in God's undeserved favor toward you and entering into a personal relationship with Him IN SPITE of how righteous you might think you are - because if you aren't perfect, your righteousness based on your own moral and spiritual goodness gets you absolutely nothing with God - only Jesus lived a moral and spiritually good life; and if you aren't claiming His sacrifice for you, no amount of your goodness will help you in the end.

 

[DiscipleHeLovesToo]

if you did, you wouldn't call it a 'story'

 

[David4223]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has been moved to the Non-Denomination Forum as it better fits in with that forum

MOD HAT OFF
​

 

[dragongunner]

You say that nobody has the right to judge, yet the bible says to judge in righteousness. That means we are supposed to judge everything in retrospect to God's law.
You judged yourself when you said, "I don't see anything wrong in saving lives which I think is what soldiers do". That was making a judgement. The problem with your judgement, is that you didn't judge in righteousness. Remember that judging in righteousness is to judge everything in retrospect to God's law.
Well, Thou shalt not kill. What do you think a soldier has to do to save lives. he has to take lives. you think it is great because it is done under the banner of freedom. As soft and fluffy as that may seem. What about those people that have to give up their freedom so that we can feel all soft and fluffy? Little children that are going to bed scared an hungry. Where is the justice in that. Jesus had the perfect peace plan that ensured everyone's freedom rights. Thou shalt not kill.
Whether it is you transgressing that law, or a terrorist. Somebody is still going to lose their freedom rights because the law was transgressed.
God had a point to the ten commandments.
Anyways, I hope that you have a fat supper and your sleep is sweet, while there are little boys and girls that have no food, and are crying out in the darkness. Quite possibly because some soldier killed their parents.

Ahhhh…the old "thou shalt not kill" but not knowing what it means…..thats just dandy. Lets not confuse killing with murder, and the kill God is talking about is murder. But lets go back to when God wrote this, "thou shalt not kill"….the same God who after said and wrote this then told Moses, that if any parents had a rebel son or daughter and the parents brought the child to Moses, then Moses was to take the child outside the camp and KILL them. The same God said to have the people KILL murderes, adulterers, homosexuals……the list goes on…..so is God breaking his own commandments? Isn't God telling Moses to break his own Commandments???? NO, because we can see that the word "kill" in this text is talking about murder. Not all killing is murder. David said that it was God who teacheth his hands to war……oh my…..you either get it or you shut your eyes in blindness. Those you know the Truth and see are usually the ones who fight for those who don't and won't ever see……your welcome.

 

[katerinah1947]

So I seen a video on a website (I can't find it now to post) last week and it was of two christians at a church event debating killing.

The soldier said he had to kill someone in the Army when he was overseas and he felt it was ok to do and God would be ok with it since in the bible it says laying down your life to protect yourself when left with no choices is ok to do. Even more so if your protecting someone else.

But the other man feels it was bad and a sin really. He said killing the man could have been avoided if the man had not joined the army. In other words he made the choice to join and left himself no option but to have to kill someone if the time came. So it may have been self defense, but it all could have been avoided and therefor the soldier sinned because he shouldn't have put himself in that situation. Essentially a christian should't join something that lets you kill people.

They continued to debate and eventually argued and said harsh things. So what is your view on this? Is killing a man as a citizen different then killing a man as a soldier since you put yourself in that situation? I have opinion either way really since in the end God decides what is wrong/right.

Hi
Figuratively Speaking, I am hoping this part about why God asks us to kill bad guys is in more than one place. That is of no concern because God making laws to tell us to kill bad guys is so clear in Romans 13 1-5. I will post it here, then show you where that is, in the text.

Romans 13:1-5King James Version (KJV)

13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

King James Version (KJV)
by Public Domain

Hi,
Paul speaking under the inpiration of The Holy Spirit, or Jesus, or what he was shown in heaven, thus not under his own authority, is speaking the the Roman Christians telling them to submit themselves to the rules of Rome, for thier rules are made by God, therefore you are submitting to God, by doing that.

He says that here, but remember this is really God talking:
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

The point here on your issue, is God tells the civilians (non Christians) to use guns to defend themselves, kill sometimes criminals, and yes to do war almost always, when attacked.
These are God's laws, as these are powers ordained by God, and that is their decisions, on matters like these.
It gets better, if you fail to protect your family, and you have the means to do so, they will call that negligence.
LOVE,
...Katherina., .... .