The mother-lode of grace can be discovered only when......

[gideons300]

My dear brothers and sisters in the Lord, some have asked me why do I talk so much about sin? Why am I not balanced and talk about grace, not sin? It is simple.

We are not ready for the most part to hear the message of what grace can really accomplish in our lives. We as the modern church have received grace for forgiveness, and multitudes have been forgiven. But that, guys, is the beginning of our race, not the end of it. Grace has more for us, but it can be appropriated only when we are prepared to receive it, and that comes only when we realize that God hates sin and wants us holy, not just forgiven. He longs for us to realize that it is our very old nature that is the culprit, but we cannot see that at first.

We think "Ok, I have to give up ________." And so we try. Some succeed, some struggle. For me it was porn. But there was a problem, for even when I succeeded, I still wanted to go there. And I still had lust in my heart and my thought life. Was I holy? No. Was I joyful? No.

So may I ask you, what spiritual exercise does one do to cut out thought sins, and sins of the heart? Not talking about it does NOTHING. Neither did going to church, becoming a pastor, fasting for up to 21 days, reading and memorizing large portions of scripture, doing prison ministry, or talking homeless into my house. The passage of time? Ha! 38 years and the battle still raged within me.

Why? Why didn't the spiritual armor God had given me work? Because I had a traitor inside the armor. A part of me.... my black dog.... was always waiting to lower the castle gate and let the enemy come in like a flood, and never did I have peace, for I always knew that no matter how tightly I tried to bind my flesh, no matter how I tried to ignore temptation, at some point, I was going to lose the battle all over again.

I was double minded, you see, just as everyone is who is saved but still walking in their lower nature. And what does the word tell us to do if we find ourselves in such a state?

"Cleanse your hands you sinners. Purify your hearts, you double minded"

And exactly how do we do that? Our current take on grace offers no answer other than:

"Ignore it, and let time pass, you'll get over it eventually. But hey, it is no biggie, because you are holy in God's eyes anyway, so don't lose any sleep on it, or listen to any talk about sin, for that will make it worse."

And that, dear brother, is the very reason why the church today is in the shape it is in, half hearted and lukewarm. Do we not see? If the white dog in us is hot, and loves God, and the black dog in us is rebellious and loves sin, and they both are a part of us, what does this mixture, this double mindedness produce in us? LUKEWARMNESS. Many feel accused as if I am saying they do not love God, but that is not it at all. We may worship with the best of them, and feed the poor, and do all sorts of things FOR God, but ultimately, once sin is factored in, the result is invariably a mixed life, a life where we love God AND we love self, and that cannot continue.

Why do I speak much on sin? Because our hearts for the most part are unprepared for the deeper revelation of what grace can do for us. If it is "by grace, through faith" and we are not convicted of impurity in thought and deed, and thus see no need for it, we can never believe for it. The real mother load of grace, where God purifies our heart, where the black dog is cut out of the equation, where the power to 0overcome the world, the flesh and the devil is found, remains hidden from us.

And that is what God is beginning to do for us in these last hours. We are being urged by the Spirit to awake to righteousness, and light our lamps and become light with NO dark, but until we want it, and until we see it will take a miracle, and until our desperation to be free from the grip of the old nature causes us to resist sin even unto blood, seeking Him with our WHOLE hearts, all will remain as it is, and "as it is" will not cut it in the coming darkness.

Grace was not given to us to ignore sin in our lives, but to cut it out of us, to implant in us brand new natures, glory to God! But that will come when we stop being content with forgiveness, and we hunger and thirst for righteousness, for purity of heart, for it is these who will see God.

Why do I speak so much on sin? Because the pendulum that once was hard against sin in years and generations past offered no end to the battle, no way to finally put a stake in the heart of the black dog inside us, and thus, in these last days, just as the scriptures tell us, the pendulum has swung back the other way, and a false grace, a grace where the Spirit causing us to be convicted inside us is silenced, has assured millions that our God is so good, that even if we do not hate our sin, even if we do not repent, even if we continue in sin that grace will STILL abound.

Why do I speak so outspokenly against sin? If we can sin and then confess it and be cleansed of it, what is the big deal with sin anyway? Here is the reason. Sin continuing in the life of a believer hardens the heart. Falling into sin may break our heart when we are first saved but eventually no longer does that. Our conviction lessens, our repentance begins to lack tears, and eventually we simply go through the motions of confession, for:

"Hey, after all we are only sinners anyway, and no one is perfect, but praise God I have grace!"

Unfortunately, the last phase of that road is that when we are tempted to sin, we do so with minimal hesitancy, for we are presuming upon grace to forgive us before we even sin. THAT is grace turned into lasciviousness. There awaits death lest we escape the blindness that afflicts us.

Real grace awaits every single child of God.... grace to cut out the black dog from our hearts. There is where the rest is found, when we cease from our own efforts and believe that the old nature is dead. BUT, none can believe for such a miracle until sin becomes exceedingly sinful, and the old nature is totally exposed to us as a traitor and we want to be freed from its grasp.

It is THEN that grace will be talked about and glorified, and all talk of sin ceases. But we are not there yet, dear brother, and so it is time we listened to clear warnings given to us by God. Sin will kill us if we let it.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[BryanW92]

Amen. God's grace is useless to us until we win the struggle to remove all of our sin. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but truth usually is. Some days I want to keep fighting the good fight, but most days, I just want to give in and accept my fate.

 

[dragongunner]

Grace in our lives is what gives us victory.

Romans 5:20

But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

 

[fozzy]

The mother-lode of grace is available to everyone who believes. It has nothing to do with striving or resisting sin and the more people try to resist sin the more power it will have over them. Sin is written into my DNA so how do I overcome that? Jesus has already gotten the victory over all sin and he offers it to all as a free gift. There is a battle in the Christian walk but it is the battle of faith. Learning that in my flesh dwelleth no good thing. The things they teach to children have some of the most profound spiritual truths like - keep your eyes on Jesus. Looking to Jesus means we are not looking at ourselves and as we behold we become changed.

 

[gideons300]

Amen. God's grace is useless to us until we win the struggle to remove all of our sin. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but truth usually is. Some days I want to keep fighting the good fight, but most days, I just want to give in and accept my fate.

I hope you did not misunderstand what I shared. God's full grace is useless to us until we TRY to defeat sins in our lives.... resisting unto blood..... and fail. It is generally only then that one can fall before God and cry out for the answer.

And what is the answer? A new nature that God can cause to obey. On our own, we may be able to stop outer sins of the flesh, but what can a man do to stop lusting? We cannot ever cleanse our thoughts and intents of our hearts without a miracle and God has it for us.

Blessings, dear brother,

Gideon

 

[gideons300]

The mother-lode of grace is available to everyone who believes. It has nothing to do with striving or resisting sin and the more people try to resist sin the more power it will have over them. Sin is written into my DNA so how do I overcome that? Jesus has already gotten the victory over all sin and he offers it to all as a free gift. There is a battle in the Christian walk but it is the battle of faith. Learning that in my flesh dwelleth no good thing. The things they teach to children have some of the most profound spiritual truths like - keep your eyes on Jesus. Looking to Jesus means we are not looking at ourselves and as we behold we become changed.

Fozzy, you are very correct. Now, a question. In all of Christendom, why do we not see this working? What are we, by and larger still the overcome, and not overcomers? What is the reason why, even after decades of walking with the Lord, do we not see people walking in the FREE INDEED Jesus promises us?

The reason is, we have been taught to be content with positional holiness and stopped short of obtaining the real thing. What is the cause of this? We simply do not believe it possible and have rested content to be outside of Egypt's grip, but still be in the wilderness, where there is no real victory, just wandering.

Until we hate the sin that so easily besets us, and we hunger after purity of heart and real holiness and see that no matter how hard we try to cooperate with God, we still seem to fail, we will not yet be prepared to believe what we all have been called to believe.

And what is that? We are called to believe and stand fast in the truth that our old man, our flesh is dead, not needing to die. Paul has told us clearly that we are not in the flesh any longer and owe it nothing. We are called to reckon ourselves dead to sin, not dying to it.

It is in this way and this way only that when we face temptation from the enemy, we first realize it is NOT from inside us. Temptation is NOT sin. Thus we can hold up our shields of faith as to who we are in Christ, and resist steadfast in the faith.

He has clearly promised us that He will not allow us to be tempted above our ability to stand up to it and not fall. When we understand that this is the only safe place from the power of sin, a power we are clearly told we have been delivered from, we will see the church awake, and as we each individually light our lamps, the church shall be transformed from a religious organization to the bride of Christ prepared for the wedding feast....without spot or wrinkle.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[gideons300]

Grace in our lives is what gives us victory.

Romans 5:20

But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

I thoroughly agree with you.

But the question must be asked. Is it working out this way for us? If grace is to teach us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we are to live soberly, righteously and justly in this present age, is it?

Gids

 

[BryanW92]

I hope you did not misunderstand what I shared. God's full grace is useless to us until we TRY to defeat sins in our lives.... resisting unto blood..... and fail. It is generally only then that one can fall before God and cry out for the answer.

And what is the answer? A new nature that God can cause to obey. On our own, we may be able to stop outer sins of the flesh, but what can a man do to stop lusting? We cannot ever cleanse our thoughts and intents of our hearts without a miracle and God has it for us.

Blessings, dear brother,

Gideon

I just doesn't make sense to me anymore.

 

[dragongunner]

I thoroughly agree with you.

But the question must be asked. Is it working out this way for us? If grace is to teach us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we are to live soberly, righteously and justly in this present age, is it?

Gids

Well it works out for some, but others it does not, for we know some turn away from Grace unto their own destruction, so its up to us what we do with Grace. One must also know what Grace is, my own study and search has resulted in me seeing and believing something about Grace that I don't hear anyone teaching. Most just teach that Grace is the ability to do right, was always told an taught that….but when I began to meditate and read Gods word that just didn't seem to fit most scriptures for me. I discovered something else about Grace that help me see things in a different light.

 

[gideons300]

Well it works out for some, but others it does not, for we know some turn away from Grace unto their own destruction, so its up to us what we do with Grace. One must also know what Grace is, my own study and search has resulted in me seeing and believing something about Grace that I don't hear anyone teaching. Most just teach that Grace is the ability to do right, was always told an taught that….but when I began to meditate and read Gods word that just didn't seem to fit most scriptures for me. I discovered something else about Grace that help me see things in a different light.

Brother, would you perhaps feel free to share a bit? Perhaps then we could discuss it? Thanks.

Gids

 

[fozzy]

Fozzy, you are very correct. Now, a question. In all of Christendom, why do we not see this working? What are we, by and larger still the overcome, and not overcomers? What is the reason why, even after decades of walking with the Lord, do we not see people walking in the FREE INDEED Jesus promises us?

We do see it working. I see testimonies on this site and others where people will come on here and say that Jesus completely removed the desire for whatever sin they were a slave to. When God removes the desire the victory is easy because we don't even want it anymore. This is the real victory that people are searching for so how do we get it? Does it come by struggling and striving and resisting or by believing that Jesus is able to do all the things he has promised? It comes by believing and believing is hard because our whole lives have been filled with doubts and uncertainty. Doubt is the enemy we have to defeat.

 

[gideons300]

We do see it working. I see testimonies on this site and others where people will come on here and say that Jesus completely removed the desire for whatever sin they were a slave to. When God removes the desire the victory is easy because we don't even want it anymore. This is the real victory that people are searching for so how do we get it? Does it come by struggling and striving and resisting or by believing that Jesus is able to do all the things he has promised? It comes by believing and believing is hard because our whole lives have been filled with doubts and uncertainty. Doubt is the enemy we have to defeat.

I am not questioning whether people occasionally get free of specific sins. But let's be honest. Look at the church overall, especially here in the west. Do we hear those in the world exclaim "Behold how they love one another!"? Will any accuse us of turning the world upside down the way they did with those in the early church?

God spoke in Ezekiel 36 that one of the benefits of the new covenant as compared to the old is that He would cause us to walk in obedience. Paul said that God found it totally reasonable for us to walk out our time here as living sacrifices. As long as we cannot admit there is a problem, we will not see the solution that will set us free indeed as Jesus promised us.

What advice can we give to a drug addict or alcoholic today? Yes, Jesus forgives us if we slip, but to remain in that cycle of slipping and repenting finally gives way to settling in for the long haul, accepting that "we are only human" and we live out our Christianity with self ending up still on the throne of our lives.

Dying to self will cannot be done by self will. The flesh will not cast out the flesh. Most may want to defeat specific acts of sin in our lives, but how few there are yet that see that it is self rule that is the real culprit. It is not sins that are the real issue, it is a sin nature... our flesh...that needs to be defeated.

So we end up spending our time trying to knock off the bad fruits that grow on us, but we never get to the root (no pun intended) of killing the old tree we were by faith and making our tree good...100% good.

Blessings to you,

Gideon

 

[gideons300]

We do see it working. I see testimonies on this site and others where people will come on here and say that Jesus completely removed the desire for whatever sin they were a slave to. When God removes the desire the victory is easy because we don't even want it anymore. This is the real victory that people are searching for so how do we get it? Does it come by struggling and striving and resisting or by believing that Jesus is able to do all the things he has promised? It comes by believing and believing is hard because our whole lives have been filled with doubts and uncertainty. Doubt is the enemy we have to defeat.

Fozzy, I wanted to make sure you knew that I do totally agree with you that all the promises of God are for us and that they work when we trust them with all that is within us. What I am simply sharing is that until we take it as gospel that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord, we will not see saints pressing in to get the full blessing of those promises.

There is still danger in sin for a believer. Can we get forgiven if we slip? Of course we can. But here is the danger. Over time, a rollercoaster of slipping and repenting again and again, apathy can set in and our repentance becomes less and less genuine. Eventually we fall back on grace as what makes up the difference and there is no more hunger for holiness at all. Why? The continued playing with sin eventually hardens the heart and although we still go to church, our love for Jesus expressed in our desire to obey Him goes by the wayside.

I hope that clarifies a bit.

Gids

 

[Job8]

I just doesn't make sense to me anymore.

Not sure what does not make sense, since the Gospel is really very simple.

1. The "mother-lode of grace" does NOT have to be "discovered" (as the title of the thread suggests), since (a) grace and truth have already come by Jesus Christ (Jn 1:17), (b) the grace of God has already appeared to all men in the Gospel (Tit 2:11,12), and (c) if you are a believer, God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ already send you their grace and peace each time you open the Word and read that benediction (1 Cor 1:3 and many more).

2. When we are saved, we are saved not only from the penalty of sin which is eternal Hell (Rom 6:23) but we are also saved from the power of sin, which is our flesh (Rom 6:14-22).

3. All we have to do BY FAITH is reckon (establish by counting or calculation; calculate, conclude after calculation; be of the opinion) or take for granted OURSELVES DEAD TO SIN AND ALIVE TO GOD (Rom 6:1-13, see v 11).

So in essence, the sixth chapter of Romans is the answer to "just doesn't make sense".

 

[BryanW92]

Not sure what does not make sense, since the Gospel is really very simple.

Is it really? I used to think it was that simple, but people who really have a lot more faith than I think I do say that it is much more. I used to disagree with them because I knew the simplicity, but most everyone agrees with them.

I've had some bad church experiences over the past year and I have strong doubts about any "professional clergy". So, in a world that seems populated by professional clergy, the part-timers like me (who have to live in both worlds due to pragmatic concerns like paying the bills), and the uber-Christians, who is right? I don't trust the first two groups, so the third becomes the only one to trust. So, when the OP says that all the grace in the world is worthless without me becoming the sinless creature that I can't/won't ever be, I have to wonder if any of it makes sense.

There should be some logic to Christianity since God made a logical world that operates on physical laws, but the back-and-forth in the OP strip all that logic away.

 

[Job8]

Is it really? I used to think it was that simple, but people who really have a lot more faith than I think I do say that it is much more. I used to disagree with them because I knew the simplicity, but most everyone agrees with them.

Bryan,

I fully sympathize with you brother, and I am really sorry to see that the Gospel has become a football, and the simplicity of Christ has been distorted by the theologians and the clergy. Disregard all the conflicting voices and listen to God through His Word and His Holy Spirit (Heb 4:12,13; 1 Jn 2:20,27).

You can take comfort in one solid fact -- God does not change, therefore His Gospel does not change and cannot change (Heb 13:8). If you want to simplify it still further, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself is your salvation (Jn 11:25,26), and it is because He lives in you that you have eternal life as a free gift from God. God also sees you as perfect and complete in Christ (Col 2:9-13). That is your POSITION.

And because God the Holy Spirit lives within you, it is God who can and will do the good works in you that He desires (Eph 2:8-10; Phil 2:12-15). Sin shall NOT have dominion over you (Rom 6:14) because you are under grace. How much simpler can it get? [Read all the Scriptures referenced and meditate on them day and night].

 

[dragongunner]

Brother, would you perhaps feel free to share a bit? Perhaps then we could discuss it? Thanks.

Gids

Just got back on and saw this and will share when I get home from work Monday evening, getting late….I should say Lord willing.

 

[fozzy]

I am not questioning whether people occasionally get free of specific sins. But let's be honest. Look at the church overall, especially here in the west. Do we hear those in the world exclaim "Behold how they love one another!"? Will any accuse us of turning the world upside down the way they did with those in the early church?

God spoke in Ezekiel 36 that one of the benefits of the new covenant as compared to the old is that He would cause us to walk in obedience. Paul said that God found it totally reasonable for us to walk out our time here as living sacrifices. As long as we cannot admit there is a problem, we will not see the solution that will set us free indeed as Jesus promised us.

What advice can we give to a drug addict or alcoholic today? Yes, Jesus forgives us if we slip, but to remain in that cycle of slipping and repenting finally gives way to settling in for the long haul, accepting that "we are only human" and we live out our Christianity with self ending up still on the throne of our lives.

Dying to self will cannot be done by self will. The flesh will not cast out the flesh. Most may want to defeat specific acts of sin in our lives, but how few there are yet that see that it is self rule that is the real culprit. It is not sins that are the real issue, it is a sin nature... our flesh...that needs to be defeated.

So we end up spending our time trying to knock off the bad fruits that grow on us, but we never get to the root (no pun intended) of killing the old tree we were by faith and making our tree good...100% good.

Blessings to you,

Gideon

It's helpful to see the Christian walk as a growing process and Jesus agrees with this because he often used the things of nature to describe it. He used the idea of a seed growing into maturity and the new birth analogy where we start out as babes and eventually grow into adulthood. At the beginning of our walk the Holy Spirit will reveal sins in our life and we will often go thru that sin, repent - sin, repent cycle where it is just about lopping off the bad fruits. Faith is not really going to be understood at this point where every day is a battle and a struggle. But as we grow and the Lord gives us victory in small areas it really does strengthen our faith to continue on.

The worst thing that you can do for someone who is struggling is to set up some kind fleshly obedience standard that they have to measure up to. They won't ever measure up and then they will fail and become discouraged. Or then you have some who are the 'strong willed' types who can actually bring their flesh into obedience. Their heart hasn't changed but they have enough will power to put on a good front and play church. This is why I don't even like the word obedience. We're not animals who are being trained to jump thru hoops or go to the bathroom outside. We are fallen human beings who are going to make many mistakes but as long as we stay with Jesus it's going to be ok.

 

[dragongunner]

Words can have so many definitions, and mean different things in different ways. I had been taught when young and then heard tv preachers teach that Grace was God giving us the ability to do what is right. However that just didn't seem to fit many passages. So I began my own search, and although there is more than one definition of Grace, the one that jumped at me was "temporary pardon"....One that I had never thought of before. Grace started some would say at the cross, and some may say stops when we are caught up at Christs return. Then the Grace dispensation has a beginning and end. Example, Noah building the ark yet people did not believe, but when the rain and flood came God put the door on the ark, and after that it was too late, too late for those left behind to repent and be saved, for only 8 were saved. And so there was a limited time, a temporary time.

Hebrews 12:15-17 Looking diligently least any man fail of the grace of God, lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled.
Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
For ye know how that afterward, when he would of inherited the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Hebrews 3:7-14

7Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

8Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

9When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

10Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

11So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

The Dangers of Unbelief
12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

So I believe the Lord has shown as Love has many meanings, so does Grace, and the one that jumped at me is "temporary pardon". For we see their is a limited time for us. But we are encouraged that no deep of sin, Grace does abound the much more, if we use it. The story of the 10 virgins, I will suggest represents 10 "christians", 5 wise and 5 foolish, and what happened to the foolish, they were left out. Could it be the 5 wise, used Grace to purge sin, to keep following, to keep oil in their lamp…..while the foolish thinking and behaving like Grace was a "full pardon" did not continue in it, and fell back into their sin. Now if you of the camp that believes "once save always saved" you will have a problem with this, but I am not nor ever have been of that camp. Grace is there for when we slip, it is there for us to keep striving over sin however we do it, for me it has been mostly by falling upon the Rock.
I have seen all to many times, christians falling away, with no desire to stop sin in there life but just accepting it as normal. Recently I have seen 2 friends I had to let go, christians that are out there right now trying to legalize drugs, some who don't believe fornication is a sin, and its just fine, I have seen adultery open in the congregation without even a eyeball being batted by the pastor……foolish, who think a "full pardon" excuses them to continue in sin.

Romans 6-8 (KJV)

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

And so taking ahold of Grace we are wise to continue in Christ, for sin is death, and can be the death of us.

1 Corinthians 6:9

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

So if we continue in sin how will Grace save us? So then having a "temporary pardon" let us endure until the end to be counted of the full pardon paid in full at calvary.

Matthew 24:13

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


As I thought upon all this so many years ago, after opening up a very large and old dictionary, and seeing what I had not seen before about "Grace", it helped makes thing much more clear, at least for me. That like "Love" has many meanings, than does not also Grace. We are given a time to mature, to transform……it does not happen over night, some struggle with some sins many years before being set free, but Grace, wonderful Grace gives us the time we do not deserve, a pardon to take advantage of if we are wise and not foolish.

I am sure there are some on here that may not agree with anything I have said, simply these are my thoughts, and they have been a blessing to me.

 

[thesunisout]

Gideon, how does the fear of the Lord tie into your message?