Proof of Creation?

stevevw

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That depends very much on what type of rock layers were above the current exposed layers. You will also note from the diagram you posted that there isn't much sedimentary rock left on the upper portion of the mountain.
Yes and thats what I cant understand. There shouldnt be any after 60 million years at a minimum rate of 0.01mm per year. That would not only take the sediment layer but also over half the mountain. How thick could a sediment layer be. The Grand Canyon is only about 1800 meters. Ocean sediments average around 450m and up to 1000m.
ocean basin | Earth feature :: Deep-sea sediments | Encyclopedia Britannica
 
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stevevw

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ALso bear in mind that layers of sedimentary rock can be covered by layers of a rock that is more resistant to weathering. Thus, any weathering of the sedimentary layers will only happen AFTER the higher, more resistant layers have eroded away, which could take millions of years.
I thought the sediments were the last layers on the earth. They form on the crust and the crust sits on the mantle.
 
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stevevw

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Right. Steve seems to think that all sedimentary rock is on top of the column, and therefore it should have eroded away after millions of years. This is not the case. The fact that it is so old, indicates it was not at the top of the column.. instead it has been exposed after the higher layers eroded away.
What were the higher layers if not sediments. If the earth was already formed from solid rock and then it gets ground down by erosion to become sediments. Those sediments then are layed on the surface. I guess if a volcano came it could cover the surface with metamorphic rocks. But from what we see around the planet it seems most of the sediments are on the surface.

Most of the rocks exposed at the surface of Earth are sedimentary-
Fossils, Rocks, and Time: Rocks and Layers
 
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Split Rock

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Yes and thats what I cant understand. There shouldnt be any after 60 million years at a minimum rate of 0.01mm per year. That would not only take the sediment layer but also over half the mountain. How thick could a sediment layer be. The Grand Canyon is only about 1800 meters. Ocean sediments average around 450m and up to 1000m.
ocean basin | Earth feature :: Deep-sea sediments | Encyclopedia Britannica
The remaining sedimentary rock could have been protected by metamorphic rock layers that are now gone. Metamorphic rock will last longer because it is harder to erode.

What were the higher layers if not sediments. If the earth was already formed from solid rock and then it gets ground down by erosion to become sediments. Those sediments then are layed on the surface. I guess if a volcano came it could cover the surface with metamorphic rocks. But from what we see around the planet it seems most of the sediments are on the surface.

Most of the rocks exposed at the surface of Earth are sedimentary-
Fossils, Rocks, and Time: Rocks and Layers
Volcanoes do not produce metamorphic rock. They produce igneous rock. Metamorphic rock is often created from sedimentary rock, which certainly is the case with Mt Everest.

Thus, you cannot conclude that it is not possible for some sedimentary rock (especially very old sedimentary rock) to exist on top of Mt Everest, unless you can show it was never shielded by harder metamorphic rock. Keep in mind that mountain building processes create metamorphic rock from sedimentary rock.
 
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Kylie

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I thought the sediments were the last layers on the earth. They form on the crust and the crust sits on the mantle.

Why would this be the case? Why can't we have igneous rock layers above sedimentary rock layers?
 
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stevevw

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Why would this be the case? Why can't we have igneous rock layers above sedimentary rock layers?
You can but like I said it wouldn't be that often. It would only be evident where volcanic activity happens or some other means where igneous rocks were able to spill out onto the surface. There will also be some areas where the earths movement has caused some rocks to shift and be tilted and then overturned. But this would also be something that only happened here and there. The sedimentary layers is what we often see when there are valleys and canyons like the Grand Canyon. They are the layers where the fossils are found. There are often thousands of square km of sediment layers spanning across continents. As the link I posted said most of the surface is of sedimentary layers.
 
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stevevw

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The remaining sedimentary rock could have been protected by metamorphic rock layers that are now gone. Metamorphic rock will last longer because it is harder to erode.

Volcanoes do not produce metamorphic rock. They produce igneous rock. Metamorphic rock is often created from sedimentary rock, which certainly is the case with Mt Everest.
Thus, you cannot conclude that it is not possible for some sedimentary rock (especially very old sedimentary rock) to exist on top of Mt Everest, unless you can show it was never shielded by harder metamorphic rock. Keep in mind that mountain building processes create metamorphic rock from sedimentary rock.
I thought the sediments were where the fossils were going right down to the Cambrian period and beyond that. That depth is still not that great. The type of layers I am talking about on mountains are the ones that have fossils in them. So they wont be that deep and therefore that thick. The Cambrian layers can be seen in the Grand Canyon.
 
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Split Rock

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I thought the sediments were where the fossils were going right down to the Cambrian period and beyond that. That depth is still not that great. The type of layers I am talking about on mountains are the ones that have fossils in them. So they wont be that deep and therefore that thick. The Cambrian layers can be seen in the Grand Canyon.

Sedimentary layers are often separated by either igneous or metamorphic layers. If there was metamorphic rock shielding the sedimentary rock at the top of Mt Everest, it would explain why it has not all eroded away. I don't quite understand why you are having problems grasping this.
 
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stevevw

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Sedimentary layers are often separated by either igneous or metamorphic layers.
That doesn't seem to be the case for the Grand Canyon which is said to have similar layers going across north America. These layers are the different sediments layed directly on top of each other. The contact points are flat and dont show any signs of anything but the sediments that they are made up of be it the Tapeat sandstone, red wall limestone's and the Coconino sandstones ect. In fact from memory the metamorphic rocks in the canyon are at the bottom and the sediment layer were layed down on top of these. So it would seem most sediment layers are on the surface of the earth. Most sediment layers would have been at the bottom of the ocean when they were raised, thats why they have the seas life fossils in them.
If there was metamorphic rock shielding the sedimentary rock at the top of Mt Everest, it would explain why it has not all eroded away. I don't quite understand why you are having problems grasping this.
I do grasp what you are saying. But that still doesn't account for the sediments being up on the mountain after 60 million years. When it talks about erosion rates and that Everest can lose over 1/2 of its size over millions of years then it doesn't matter what rock is there. If it loses that much mountain its going to be eroding sediments, igneous and metamorphic rocks to do that. It doesn't matter if the sediments are covered with some other form of rock. It will slow down the rate of erosion but we are still talking about the average minimum rate of erosion of 0.01mm. At that rate it would have eroded the entire height of Mt Everest in over 88 million years.

Considering Everest is 60 million years old then we are talking over 1/2 its original rocks including any sediments eroded away. Unless the sediments were buried deep well below half of the mountain. But I can't see that as normally the sediments are what ends up on top when 1st uplifted. It may then get covered with some igneous rock from volcanic activity but than will depend on the amount of activity. Still I can see it being buried to deep.
 
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Loudmouth

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That doesn't seem to be the case for the Grand Canyon which is said to have similar layers going across north America.

Mt. Everest is not the Grand Canyon, and it isn't in North America.

I do grasp what you are saying. But that still doesn't account for the sediments being up on the mountain after 60 million years.

It does account for it. If the sedimentary layers were capped by harder metamorphic rock, then the erosion rate would be much slower and they would have survived 60 million years of erosion.
 
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Split Rock

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That doesn't seem to be the case for the Grand Canyon which is said to have similar layers going across north America. These layers are the different sediments layed directly on top of each other. The contact points are flat and dont show any signs of anything but the sediments that they are made up of be it the Tapeat sandstone, red wall limestone's and the Coconino sandstones ect. In fact from memory the metamorphic rocks in the canyon are at the bottom and the sediment layer were layed down on top of these. So it would seem most sediment layers are on the surface of the earth. Most sediment layers would have been at the bottom of the ocean when they were raised, thats why they have the seas life fossils in them.
I do grasp what you are saying. But that still doesn't account for the sediments being up on the mountain after 60 million years. When it talks about erosion rates and that Everest can lose over 1/2 of its size over millions of years then it doesn't matter what rock is there. If it loses that much mountain its going to be eroding sediments, igneous and metamorphic rocks to do that. It doesn't matter if the sediments are covered with some other form of rock. It will slow down the rate of erosion but we are still talking about the average minimum rate of erosion of 0.01mm. At that rate it would have eroded the entire height of Mt Everest in over 88 million years.

Considering Everest is 60 million years old then we are talking over 1/2 its original rocks including any sediments eroded away. Unless the sediments were buried deep well below half of the mountain. But I can't see that as normally the sediments are what ends up on top when 1st uplifted. It may then get covered with some igneous rock from volcanic activity but than will depend on the amount of activity. Still I can see it being buried to deep.
Here is an example where basalts are on top of sedimentary rock layers:
https://www2.nau.edu/rcb7/Verde_col.jpg

The rate of erosion is very much dependent on what rock you are talking about. Where are you getting your numbers from? How do you explain the height of Mt Everest and its rate of growth if your figures for erosion are correct?
 
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stevevw

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Mt. Everest is not the Grand Canyon, and it isn't in North America.
Well because the example is showing how vast those sediment layers are across North America it is also more or less showing that its the same across the globe.

It does account for it. If the sedimentary layers were capped by harder metamorphic rock, then the erosion rate would be much slower and they would have survived 60 million years of erosion.
Yes the minimum rate of erosion of about 0.01mm per year even when the rocks are non sedimentary. That still would wipe out any sediment layers in well over half the mountain. I would say the sediment layers we are talking about will be close to the surface because they have fossils in them. So any covering will be minimal. That and the sediments should have eroded in 60 million years. If they have remained after all this time then there must be another reason. A relatively thin layer of harder rock would not be enough to prevent it from eroding away. Unless there was no erosion.
 
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stevevw

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Here is an example where basalts are on top of sedimentary rock layers:
https://www2.nau.edu/rcb7/Verde_col.jpg

The rate of erosion is very much dependent on what rock you are talking about. Where are you getting your numbers from? How do you explain the height of Mt Everest and its rate of growth if your figures for erosion are correct?
I'm getting the erosion rates from this site which has a paper attached showing the erosion and its rates of the Himalayas.

Let's use the example of Everest. At 8,848 meters (29,029 feet), it's the highest peak (with reference to sea level) on the planet. Geologists have studied rates of erosion in the Himalaya (see this paper, for example) and even low rates of erosion are around 0.1 millimeters per year (mm/yr).
Disappearing Mountains ~ Hudson Valley Geologist

The height of Mt Everest is maintained and probably increased with uplift. The uplift from plate movement which caused the mountain in the first place is replacing any lost mountain to erosion. But this still doesn't take away from the fact that over millions of years much of the original mountain has disappeared through erosion.
 
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Kylie

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You can but like I said it wouldn't be that often. It would only be evident where volcanic activity happens or some other means where igneous rocks were able to spill out onto the surface. There will also be some areas where the earths movement has caused some rocks to shift and be tilted and then overturned. But this would also be something that only happened here and there. The sedimentary layers is what we often see when there are valleys and canyons like the Grand Canyon. They are the layers where the fossils are found. There are often thousands of square km of sediment layers spanning across continents. As the link I posted said most of the surface is of sedimentary layers.

There are many ways that layers of sedimentary rock can be protected. And also remember that just because a rock is sedimentary it doesn't mean it's going to weather away rapidly.
 
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stevevw

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There are many ways that layers of sedimentary rock can be protected. And also remember that just because a rock is sedimentary it doesn't mean it's going to weather away rapidly.
Just to clarify things all I am doing is asking the obvious questions. I am not making any conclusions.

I am supporting what I say with evidence. In fact I am not stating this the science is saying this. I never said that the sediments or any other rock was eroding rapidly. The link states the minimum rate of erosion at 0.01mm per year which is nothing if you look at it. But still at that rate after millions of years it would take away most of the original mountain despite it being replace with new mountain with uplift. Maybe there is some process that protects the mountain. But I dont want to labor this point now so I guess I will do some more research and wait to see if there is any other explanation.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Just to clarify things all I am doing is asking the obvious questions. I am not making any conclusions.

I am supporting what I say with evidence. In fact I am not stating this the science is saying this. I never said that the sediments or any other rock was eroding rapidly. The link states the minimum rate of erosion at 0.01mm per year which is nothing if you look at it. But still at that rate after millions of years it would take away most of the original mountain despite it being replace with new mountain with uplift. Maybe there is some process that protects the mountain. But I dont want to labor this point now so I guess I will do some more research and wait to see if there is any other explanation.

Here's something I found:

A hundred million years ago a vast sea separated India from Eurasia. Then India began drifting northward at a rate of about four inches (ten centimeters) a year. In geologic time, that’s breakneck speed.

India collided with Eurasia some 50 million years ago. Land crumpled and buckled upward—the birth of the mighty Himalaya. But the tumult wasn’t over. A cataclysmic uplift 20 million years ago formed much of the present-day Himalaya. Yet they still weren’t the dramatic peaks we know today.

“About eight million years ago,” says geologist Mark Harrison, “all hell broke loose when the present range, the really steep topography, developed.” Now slicing nearly six miles (ten kilometers) into the sky, the Himalaya became the highest mountain range on Earth.

Here's a comment:

Everest @ nationalgeographic.com

TODAY’S TECTONIC DRAMA
India still presses forward; indeed, the Indian subcontinent has penetrated more than 1,200 miles (1,900 kilometers) beneath Eurasia. As India pushes, Mount Everest continues to rise.

How fast is the great peak growing? In 1994 researchers placed a global positioning satellite (GPS) device on the South Col, a plateau below the summit. Readings suggest that Everest grows 0.1576 inches (about four millimeters) each year.

Other tectonic forces, however, may cost Everest some of its height. Do they and the peak’s growth cancel each other out? That’s a key question for the expedition team.

Note the time frame for Everest growth; note that it is still growing, not wearing down.
 
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stevevw

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