is meaning required?

[HerCrazierHalf]

A recurring them in debates about God's existence often come down to God and the afterlife as a source of meaning in life. But to me there's a bigger implied question.

Does life require a meaning or purpose? Why can't such meaning be decided on by each individual?

 

[Ken-1122]

A recurring them in debates about God's existence often come down to God and the afterlife as a source of meaning in life. But to me there's a bigger implied question.

Does life require a meaning or purpose? Why can't such meaning be decided on by each individual?

Meaning and purpose IS decided by each individual. The problem is when some people feel a need to discount other people's purpose in life if it isn't up to their standards.

Ken

 

[Chesterton]

Does life require a meaning or purpose?

What do you mean exactly by "require"? Does life need meaning? Need it for what purpose? For some degree of happiness, I think it does require it.

Why can't such meaning be decided on by each individual?

I agree with Ken that it is decided on by each individual, but you have to remember what this means in regard to atheists. It means they're making up something baseless out of thin air, the same thing they often accuse religious folks of doing.

 

[True Scotsman]

A recurring them in debates about God's existence often come down to God and the afterlife as a source of meaning in life. But to me there's a bigger implied question.

Does life require a meaning or purpose? Why can't such meaning be decided on by each individual?

I think so, yes. A purpose is essential to life. At a bare minimum you have to have life as your purpose. Beyond that I think Human beings also need to have enjoyment and happiness to live. My philosophy, Objectivism, holds that the three cardinal virtues needed to achieve happiness are reason, purpose and self esteem. Your purpose is something that you must choose and no one can make the choice for you.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

What do you mean exactly by "require"? Does life need meaning? Need it for what purpose? For some degree of happiness, I think it does require it.

Require as in essential for happiness or at least some flavor of satisfaction in life.

I agree with Ken that it is decided on by each individual, but you have to remember what this means in regard to atheists. It means they're making up something baseless out of thin air, the same thing they often accuse religious folks of doing.

Depending on which atheist you speak to. The big difference is that in theory, a large number of religious people assume the meaning supplied by their faith. A similar "group think" might be happening to certain groups of New Atheists and others.

For me, it isn't really a big concern since I don't have enough information yet, but rather a curiosity.

 

[Chesterton]

Require as in essential for happiness or at least some flavor of satisfaction in life.

Yeah, because existence completely devoid of meaning is (I think) nearly unbearable. The more it's even possible to conceive it, the more it leads to gloom and despair, because at bottom we all want meaning so badly. To think that all our value judgments really aren't true as they seem is intellectually and emotionally unacceptable.

Depending on which atheist you speak to. The big difference is that in theory, a large number of religious people assume the meaning supplied by their faith. A similar "group think" might be happening to certain groups of New Atheists and others.

For me, it isn't really a big concern since I don't have enough information yet, but rather a curiosity.

I'm not talking about accepting a meaning supplied by a pre-existing group or tradition, I'm talking about any possible meaning an individual could invent. If there isn't actually any meaning, it doesn't matter what you decide to value, because a correlation to something which doesn't exist in reality is a correlation to nothing, and is therefore nothing, except maybe a crutch to help you get through the horror of space and the terror of time.

 

[Ken-1122]

I agree with Ken that it is decided on by each individual, but you have to remember what this means in regard to atheists. It means they're making up something baseless out of thin air, the same thing they often accuse religious folks of doing.

If people bring meaning to their lives based upon what they have decided is important to them, how is this baseless and out of thin air?

 

[kristina411]

Every life has purpose. As stated above (can't believe I agree with some posts), each person is an individual there for bringing individual meaning to *their life.

The meaning of life as a whole, the purpose for living creatures at all, or even the purpose of a spirit/mind/soul/thoughts/feelings/whatever you choose to call these things, is debatable though.

 

[quatona]

A recurring them in debates about God's existence often come down to God and the afterlife as a source of meaning in life.

Actually, they say this about meaning of life .

Does life require a meaning or purpose?

Consciousness and selfawareness inevitably lead to ascribing meaning in life.
Life itself, not so much.

Why can't such meaning be decided on by each individual?

Well, it can and it is.

 

[Tree of Life]

I think a more fundamental discussion is: "what does it mean for a life to have meaning?"

The answer to that question will go a long way in giving you an answer to the OP.

 

[quatona]

I agree with Ken that it is decided on by each individual, but you have to remember what this means in regard to atheists. It means they're making up something baseless out of thin air, the same thing they often accuse religious folks of doing.

I´m aware of this. I have never criticized people for creating meaning out of nothing, though. I have criticized people for making truth claims out of thin air.

I'm not talking about accepting a meaning supplied by a pre-existing group or tradition, I'm talking about any possible meaning an individual could invent. If there isn't actually any meaning, it doesn't matter what you decide to value, because a correlation to something which doesn't exist in reality is a correlation to nothing, and is therefore nothing

Why would you expect meaning to have or be a correlation to something, in the first place?
Meaning correlates to the individual person and their needs, and that´s its basis and why it matters to them. Why expect something beyond this?

 

[Davian]

 

[juvenissun]

A recurring them in debates about God's existence often come down to God and the afterlife as a source of meaning in life. But to me there's a bigger implied question.

Does life require a meaning or purpose? Why can't such meaning be decided on by each individual?

No, it does not require one. Because it has one, knowing it or not.
It is decided by individual, but the decision may not be a right one.

 

[Chesterton]

<This is addressed to you, quatona. As I mentioned before, I've tried everything to quote you, but even copying and pasting a small bit of your text will prevent the post from appearing. Weird.>

How do you know they're making truth claims out of thin air? You don't display a faith icon so I don't know where you're coming from. I have to assume either a) you know the truth and the people you criticize are wrong or b) they're wrong because you know there is no truth.

The word "meaning" implies a correlation between one thing and another thing apart from that first thing, e.g., a stop sign implies the idea of stopping your car so you don't cause an accident, an idea which is wholly outside of the physical nature of the sign itself. For a physical human mind to correlate meaning to itself is non-sensical, kind of like a stop sign saying "Stop" for no reason other than it just enjoyed saying "Stop".

 

[AlephBet]

A recurring them in debates about God's existence often come down to God and the afterlife as a source of meaning in life. But to me there's a bigger implied question.

Does life require a meaning or purpose? Why can't such meaning be decided on by each individual?

What would it mean to you if you found out that all laws governing reality could be removed as a restriction to your mind? What would you do first? In other words, the universe would still be the same, but you would have unlimited intellect, knowledge, wisdom ability and potential to change the sates of matter to your liking. What would you do first?

Meaning, in this case, would be up to your desire and imagination. The problem with this is simple. Actions affect others. You would not be the only one in the kingdom with this ability. How would you manage this? This is one of the largest questions in philosophy--perhaps even the only question in philosophy. The question is this: how do we manage unity with multiplicity?

You see, the problem with being unrestricted by law is simple. It boils down to the will of the individual. There are really only two types of will.

1) The will to give and receive
2) The will to take

If you are looking for the primary focus of God as meaning to creation, it is the development of future rulers and creators in an abundantly supplied universe, the primary universe to transmute. Transmutation is by will. Ultimately, we inherit God's perfect creation, needing no transmutation.

Again, what would you do first?

What did God do first?

He restricted the thieves, allowing them to discover what it is like being a creator. How? He created an image of what comes next. The image can be managed. The point: Choose the will of a Saint.

1 Corinthians 2:9

However, as it is written: "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived" -- the things God has prepared for those who love him--

In other words, it is so unimaginable, you cannot even conceive of it if you tried. So amazing, you couldn't even be told if I tried. Where is your purpose and meaning now?

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

The meaning of life is to suffer on purpose. Once you figure this out, you get it. Giving requires what is given is first be earned. Receiving the gift is similarly won.

In the Lord's prayer, we get the entire message. His will. Give. Receive. Forgive (which is giving). Receive what is given daily. There IS a future for those who seek God's will. There is also a future of the thief.

 

[TillICollapse]

<This is addressed to you, quatona. As I mentioned before, I've tried everything to quote you, but even copying and pasting a small bit of your text will prevent the post from appearing. Weird.>

Perhaps it's your web browser ? I've noticed that Firefox doesn't always allow me to quote things. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't, I use Safari.

 

[quatona]

<This is addressed to you, quatona. As I mentioned before, I've tried everything to quote you, but even copying and pasting a small bit of your text will prevent the post from appearing. Weird.>

How do you know they're making truth claims out of thin air?

Depends on the case. Most of the time, I conclude it when they are unable or unwilling to support or substantiate their truth claims.

The word "meaning" implies a correlation between one thing and another thing apart from that first thing, e.g., a stop sign implies the idea of stopping your car so you don't cause an accident, an idea which is wholly outside of the physical nature of the sign itself. For a physical human mind to correlate meaning to itself is non-sensical, kind of like a stop sign saying "Stop" for no reason other than it just enjoyed saying "Stop".

Yes, that´s how "meaning" is used in linguistics and and other formal symbolic systems. A completely different frame of reference, that is.

 

[single eye]

Choosing a purpose is more satisfying than not having a purpose. Finding and accomplishing the purpose we chose before conception is far better still. Why? Because it does not suffer from the law of diminsihing returns.

 

[Received]

A recurring them in debates about God's existence often come down to God and the afterlife as a source of meaning in life. But to me there's a bigger implied question.

Does life require a meaning or purpose? Why can't such meaning be decided on by each individual?

What is meaning? Some idea with a future basis that the self (by fulfilling) can find connection with; meaning is a matter of connectedness. If I have one or more possibilities that I sense are fitting for me (which probably always comes down to a belief in happiness or fulfillment), then I have meaning. (The other definition of meaning is technically correct semiotically, but here we're speaking of what might be called existential meaning or life meaning.)

To live without meaning, therefore, is to live without possibilities. Living without possibilities means being choked up with necessity -- only doing the one thing you're currently doing to the unforseen future. That's suffocating. So yes, the self needs meaning.

And yeah, it's a matter (always and in every time) of individual preference. What's meaningful for me (what would connect my present self with the future in bringing me happiness or contentment) is not the same thing, necessarily, as what's meaningful for you. But there might be "meaning universals", i.e., sets of very basic shared meanings among the human race. I'm skeptical of that, though, given different levels of maturity. We all are certainly better off if we're loved and if we love others, but because of our level of maturity we might not value love or loving others, and because in these moments we don't value love in this way, it's not meaningful to us -- even if not having it damages us.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Depends on the case. Most of the time, I conclude it when they are unable or unwilling to support or substantiate their truth claims.



Yes, that´s how "meaning" is used in linguistics and and other formal symbolic systems. A completely different frame of reference, that is.

I'm not entirely sure that it's different at all. Sure, you learn the sign means "stop" because society teaches you so...but it's not as if the sign has a meaning intrinsic to itself.