why do so many christians believe the Sabbath is Sunday?

[notalone32]

Forgive me if this has been addressed in another thread. I'm newish to CF. I am really puzzled as to why so many Christians say Sunday is the Sabbath when the Bible talks about the Sabbath being on the 7th day of the week (Fri eve until sat eve). I do see that the early church met on the first day of the week but the Bible doesn't call that Sabbath. Sabbath is a day of REST. Sunday is a day of worship. The two are not the same surely?

 

[SAAN]

Many knowledgeable Christians know the Sabbath is Saturday and know Sunday has just been a traditional day of worship for the last 2000 yrs. But many others just go with what they have been taught and dont read the bible, so that is when you hear that Sunday is the new Sabbath or my own personal Sabbath. In the end it still isnt a Sabbath, because it is not kept the way the bible asks for it to be kept.

 

[notalone32]

Thanks. I recently started keeping Sabbath on friday evenings through to saturday evenings because that seems to me what God meant when He said the Sabbath.

I try not to judge others in respect to what day they keep theirs. It just seems logical to do the seventh day as God says. He says temeber to keep THE Sabbath not A Sabbath.

But it can be confusing. I read something written by a Korean pastor (Kim Doo Yong) and he stated that Christians must keep SUNDAY as a holy day. And not use a car or eat in a restaraunt on a Sunday.

Also I met someone who told me it was a sin to put the heating on or cook a simple meal on the Sabbath. He said even reheating a meal in the microwave is a sin.

 

[SAAN]

Thanks. I recently started keeping Sabbath on friday evenings through to saturday evenings because that seems to me what God meant when He said the Sabbath.

I try not to judge others in respect to what day they keep theirs. It just seems logical to do the seventh day as God says. He says temeber to keep THE Sabbath not A Sabbath.

But it can be confusing. I read something written by a Korean pastor (Kim Doo Yong) and he stated that Christians must keep SUNDAY as a holy day. And not use a car or eat in a restaraunt on a Sunday.

Also I met someone who told me it was a sin to put the heating on or cook a simple meal on the Sabbath. He said even reheating a meal in the microwave is a sin.

Im sure that Korean pastor does read the bible either.

As for the no kindling a fire on the Sabbath , that is so misunderstood as well. Considering the was alot of work to kindle the fire and the fire was going to be used for them to do actual work. Many just go ahead and say a fire of any type is breaking the Sabbath and many themselves look ignorant in the process.

 

[Steeno7]

Thanks. I recently started keeping Sabbath on friday evenings through to saturday evenings because that seems to me what God meant when He said the Sabbath.

I try not to judge others in respect to what day they keep theirs. It just seems logical to do the seventh day as God says. He says temeber to keep THE Sabbath not A Sabbath.

But it can be confusing. I read something written by a Korean pastor (Kim Doo Yong) and he stated that Christians must keep SUNDAY as a holy day. And not use a car or eat in a restaraunt on a Sunday.

Also I met someone who told me it was a sin to put the heating on or cook a simple meal on the Sabbath. He said even reheating a meal in the microwave is a sin.

You are certainly free to rest in Christ only one day of the week, but why would you want to limit it to only one day of the week?

 

[BobRyan]

Forgive me if this has been addressed in another thread. I'm newish to CF. I am really puzzled as to why so many Christians say Sunday is the Sabbath when the Bible talks about the Sabbath being on the 7th day of the week (Fri eve until sat eve). I do see that the early church met on the first day of the week but the Bible doesn't call that Sabbath. Sabbath is a day of REST. Sunday is a day of worship. The two are not the same surely?

Providential that you should ask -- and welcome to the board.

Everyone agrees that the Sabbath as given by God in the Bible is the 7th day - and that is Saturday not Sunday.

The question is whether God's Law can either be 1. downsize, 2. edited, or 3. tossed out the window such that we no longer pay attention to what He said on that point.

Many on this board take options 1 or 3. The majority of pro-sunday scholars take option 2.

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

================================

So then -- an example -- first regarding the "Ten Commandments" then specifically the Sabbath Commandment and what they are doing with it.

"Westminster Confession of Faith"

[FONT=&quot]Chapter XIX[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Of the Law of God[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][1][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables:[/FONT][FONT=&quot][2][/FONT][FONT=&quot] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][3][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][4][/FONT][FONT=&quot] and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][5][/FONT][FONT=&quot] All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][6][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][7][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][8][/FONT][FONT=&quot] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][9][/FONT][FONT=&quot] Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][10][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][11][/FONT][FONT=&quot] yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][12][/FONT][FONT=&quot] discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][13][/FONT][FONT=&quot] so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,[/FONT][FONT=&quot][14][/FONT][FONT=&quot] together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][15][/FONT][FONT=&quot] It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin:[/FONT][FONT=&quot][16][/FONT][FONT=&quot] and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][17][/FONT][FONT=&quot] The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof:[/FONT][FONT=&quot][18][/FONT][FONT=&quot] although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][19][/FONT][FONT=&quot] So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][20][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][21][/FONT][FONT=&quot] the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][22][/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

Now then seeing how they affirm the TEN Commandments - how do they get to point 7 above - "editing" the 4th commandment?

Here is what they say --

Section 21 of the "Westminster Confession of Faith" (which compares to section 22 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" )

VII. As it is the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in His Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, He has particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him:[34] which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week: and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week,[35] which, in Scripture, is called the Lord's Day,[36] and is to be continued to the end of the world, as the Christian Sabbath.[37]

As for me ... as stated above - 6 of the 7 I agree to - but not the 7th point

 

[Elder 111]

Thanks. I recently started keeping Sabbath on friday evenings through to saturday evenings because that seems to me what God meant when He said the Sabbath.

I try not to judge others in respect to what day they keep theirs. It just seems logical to do the seventh day as God says. He says temeber to keep THE Sabbath not A Sabbath.

But it can be confusing. I read something written by a Korean pastor (Kim Doo Yong) and he stated that Christians must keep SUNDAY as a holy day. And not use a car or eat in a restaraunt on a Sunday.

Also I met someone who told me it was a sin to put the heating on or cook a simple meal on the Sabbath. He said even reheating a meal in the microwave is a sin.

Hello and welcome.
The key to knowing what is OK to do on the Sabbath is shown by Jesus. Jesus did good. Also what is necessary to maintain life and health that can not be done outside of the Sabbath. If it could wait let it wait. No work for your own gain should be done. What do I mean by this? Let's take a taxi driver, On the Sabbath no taxi driving for pay. But there comes an emergency, someone need to get to the hospital, God would not be please if the taxi driver says I am not driving on the Sabbath, not only should he take them to hospital he should not collect money for it either.
Some would even tell you you should not come on this site on the Sabbath. Let not those who have rejected the Sabbath burden you with what God never intended. If it is good to share with fellow Christians on the Sabbath then there is no evil in being here. It is a beautiful day of peace and rest. I have found it so for the lass 33 plus years.

 

[BobRyan]

As for "why" it is that we cannot "edit" the word of God - the Ten Commandments - the Sabbath Commandment etc...

Mark 7 explains it.

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3

 

[BobRyan]

Many knowledgeable Christians know the Sabbath is Saturday and know Sunday has just been a traditional day of worship for the last 2000 yrs. But many others just go with what they have been taught and dont read the bible, so that is when you hear that Sunday is the new Sabbath or my own personal Sabbath. In the end it still isnt a Sabbath, because it is not kept the way the bible asks for it to be kept.

That is true.

 

[BobRyan]

. It just seems logical to do the seventh day as God says. He says temeber to keep THE Sabbath not A Sabbath.

But it can be confusing. I read something written by a Korean pastor (Kim Doo Yong) and he stated that Christians must keep SUNDAY as a holy day. And not use a car or eat in a restaraunt on a Sunday.

Also I met someone who told me it was a sin to put the heating on or cook a simple meal on the Sabbath. He said even reheating a meal in the microwave is a sin.

Notice how D.L. Moody takes that same view about Sunday and the Sabbath Commandment being 'edited' changed to point to Sunday in some way.




=========================================================
D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - yet he affirms both the TEN Commandments and the continued binding authority of the Sabbath Commandment for the saints from Eden to this very day. Though he would gladly point it to "Sunday" -- week-day-1

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY​

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17 ​

.
The Fourth Commandment

​

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; [/FONT] __________________
===============================================================

D.L. Moody or C.H. Spurgeon were SDA - yet they could honestly admit to some Bible details that some here claim only SDAs could know about.

 

[bugkiller]

Notice how D.L. Moody takes that same view about Sunday and the Sabbath Commandment being 'edited' changed to point to Sunday in some way.




=========================================================
D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - yet he affirms both the TEN Commandments and the continued binding authority of the Sabbath Commandment for the saints from Eden to this very day. Though he would gladly point it to "Sunday" -- week-day-1

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY​

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17 ​

.
The Fourth Commandment

​

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; [/FONT] __________________
===============================================================

D.L. Moody or C.H. Spurgeon were SDA - yet they could honestly admit to some Bible details that some here claim only SDAs could know about.

What Bob isn't sharing with us here is the following quote from the same sources he used in our debate accessible from my signature on the peanut gallery.

A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven. There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath. Saturday is my day of rest, because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need.

D L Moody is not presenting Saturday as the sabbath for the Christian. He clearly calls Sunday the sabbath. He does go on and try and apply at least some sabbath regulations to Sunday as principles to live by. The point is D L Moody is not referring to the 7th day sabbath.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Forgive me if this has been addressed in another thread. I'm newish to CF. I am really puzzled as to why so many Christians say Sunday is the Sabbath when the Bible talks about the Sabbath being on the 7th day of the week (Fri eve until sat eve). I do see that the early church met on the first day of the week but the Bible doesn't call that Sabbath. Sabbath is a day of REST. Sunday is a day of worship. The two are not the same surely?

I'm rather curious why you suddenly seem to have an interest in this subject.

How long have you been a Christian?

What church influence has there been in your life?

We do get all kinds of people here is why I'm asking.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Providential that you should ask -- and welcome to the board.

Everyone agrees that the Sabbath as given by God in the Bible is the 7th day - and that is Saturday not Sunday.

The question is whether God's Law can either be 1. downsize, 2. edited, or 3. tossed out the window such that we no longer pay attention to what He said on that point.

Many on this board take options 1 or 3. The majority of pro-sunday scholars take option 2.

So then -- an example -- first regarding the "Ten Commandments" then specifically the Sabbath Commandment and what they are doing with it.

What is the difference between points 1 and 2?

I wasn't aware you were a pro-Sunday scholar as you clearly take position 2.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Hello and welcome.
The key to knowing what is OK to do on the Sabbath is shown by Jesus. Jesus did good. Also what is necessary to maintain life and health that can not be done outside of the Sabbath. If it could wait let it wait. No work for your own gain should be done. What do I mean by this? Let's take a taxi driver, On the Sabbath no taxi driving for pay. But there comes an emergency, someone need to get to the hospital, God would not be please if the taxi driver says I am not driving on the Sabbath, not only should he take them to hospital he should not collect money for it either.
Some would even tell you you should not come on this site on the Sabbath. Let not those who have rejected the Sabbath burden you with what God never intended. If it is good to share with fellow Christians on the Sabbath then there is no evil in being here. It is a beautiful day of peace and rest. I have found it so for the lass 33 plus years.

Who pays the company the driver works for?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

As for "why" it is that we cannot "edit" the word of God - the Ten Commandments - the Sabbath Commandment etc...

Mark 7 explains it.

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3

I've no idea, but in practice I wager you have edited it so it can be complied with.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Listed has been saying for sometime now that he would like to get Bugkiller on this board so that something a bit more substantive would come up in opposition to the irrefutable threads and arguments I have been making regarding the "majority of pro-sunday" scholars and the loads of evidence I provide and could easily add to for those interested.

He is looking for something that would actually "refute" the claims I have made -- not simply run-of-the-mill games and vitriol.

So it will be interesting watch the "substantive" posting level and of course we all hope it does not go to the "any ol excuse will do until I think of an answer" format.

Should be instructive for all.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Elder 111]

As for "why" it is that we cannot "edit" the word of God - the Ten Commandments - the Sabbath Commandment etc...

Mark 7 explains it.

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3

Interesting that John says that God's commandments are not burdensome, for that is exactly what is said about them.

 

[Elder 111]

Who pays the company the driver works for?

bugkiller

He self employed.

 

[BobRyan]

Interesting that John says that God's commandments are not burdensome, for that is exactly what is said about them.

Good point.

In John's view it is the saints that "Keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12.

In John's view the proof that you Love God AND love the children of God is that you "Keep the Commandments of God" 1John 5:1-4

Paul says that the lost 'do not and cannot' submit to the Law of God -- only saints can do that - Rom 8:5-8