This position says that the key NT chapters on the 2nd coming do not include anything about battles between geo-political groups on earth as we know them. It also says Rev 20:7+ happens all over the earth, and its city is not Jerusalem on earth, as the next chapter shows us. In fact, the earth as we know it is done away, and it is all in Christ.
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The A-Geopolitical Position
- Thread starter Interplanner
- Start date
Birth pangs are the first four plagues.
vs. 8 is the start of The Appointed Time of The End.
And then shall the end come
vs.14 is the end of salvation on the 1260th day.
vs.15 AofD is the 1290th day.
vs. 31 is the 1335th day.
<-----1260----->
<------1290------>
<-------1335------->
<--------1372-------->
"and there shall be pestillence, and famine, and earthquake in everyplace" - duTillet
"and these are but the beginning of the plagues" - duTillet
I am currently looking at the probability that the duTillet version of Matthew 24 speaks of the global earthquake from Revelation 8.
I am convinced the duTillet is the original text from Matthew, it has the missing name of Jesus' Grandfather in the genealogies.
"seven angels having the seven last plagues,
for in them the wrath of God is complete"
If the bowls are the "seven last plagues,
wouldn't that mean the trumpets are the seven first plagues?
vs. 8 is the start of The Appointed Time of The End.
And then shall the end come
vs.14 is the end of salvation on the 1260th day.
vs.15 AofD is the 1290th day.
vs. 31 is the 1335th day.
<-----1260----->
<------1290------>
<-------1335------->
<--------1372-------->
"and there shall be pestillence, and famine, and earthquake in everyplace" - duTillet
"and these are but the beginning of the plagues" - duTillet
I am currently looking at the probability that the duTillet version of Matthew 24 speaks of the global earthquake from Revelation 8.
I am convinced the duTillet is the original text from Matthew, it has the missing name of Jesus' Grandfather in the genealogies.
"seven angels having the seven last plagues,
for in them the wrath of God is complete"
If the bowls are the "seven last plagues,
wouldn't that mean the trumpets are the seven first plagues?
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It doesn't work that way Dave. There is no 2P2P. If there is none, there is no need for further geo-political battles that are not the 2nd coming in judgement itself.
The AofD occurred when Christ said in Mt24A, in the cataclysm of the 1st century, desolating the country. Mt24 cannot be about the distant future until after v29 and if the end of the world is delayed, which is the case. B has nothing Judaic or Geo-Political in it.
The AofD occurred when Christ said in Mt24A, in the cataclysm of the 1st century, desolating the country. Mt24 cannot be about the distant future until after v29 and if the end of the world is delayed, which is the case. B has nothing Judaic or Geo-Political in it.
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I'm sorry Interplanner, it's there if you want to find it. Our Tribulation is going to begin at Revelation 8. If we can get the chronology even half right, it can all be found in this translation of Matthew 24.
http://www.torahresource.com/DuTillet/Schonfield.pdf
It's a scanned book so go to page 16 of 105 for the genealogy proof.
Then go to page 85 of 105 for the beginning of chapter 24.
http://www.torahresource.com/DuTillet/Schonfield.pdf
It's a scanned book so go to page 16 of 105 for the genealogy proof.
Then go to page 85 of 105 for the beginning of chapter 24.
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I did master's level study and translation on Luke-Acts and the Jewish War. I don't know what you need to say about genealogy. The point is that Luke especially is riddled with sayings about what would happen in the zealot rebellion, and said in such a way as to connect it to the last verse of Dan 9.
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Matthew 24 is different, it was originally written in Hebrew not Greek. Our Greek to English is missing a name in the genealogy list at the beginning. This name is not missing from the duTillet manuscript.
duTillet says "earthquake everyplace" "these are the beginning of the plagues"
Global earthquake = beginning of the trumpets.
But I do agree, you are smarter than me.
duTillet says "earthquake everyplace" "these are the beginning of the plagues"
Global earthquake = beginning of the trumpets.
But I do agree, you are smarter than me.
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Look at me, look at me. See how smart I am. I have all these degrees. So I must know what I am talking about.
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Just to be clear:
there is no genealogy at the beginning of Mt 24.
The text critic scholarship I'm aware of says all the gospel material was oral Aramaic at first, and the complete story of Jesus in oral form is usually called Q for the German term for source. Mark appears next in a couple years and is shortest. Matt is next as can be seen from similarities with Mark. John is probably next but obviously not relying on that material. Then Luke who explains that he interviewed and consulted many about what happened, and thus has at least some similarity to M&M and way more to them than John, as we all know.
The region of 'ges' (land, earth) is Judea in Mt 24, as it had been most everywhere in Matt. Many details about what is said in Mt24A confine it to Judea. The whole explanation happens because it was confusing for the disciples to hear that the house/identity of Israel would be desolate at the end of ch23, then exult in Judaism's beautiful buildings, then be told they would crash.
In v29+ the expressions ends of heaven or 4 corners of the earth show that the setting of those events are worldwide.
there is no genealogy at the beginning of Mt 24.
The text critic scholarship I'm aware of says all the gospel material was oral Aramaic at first, and the complete story of Jesus in oral form is usually called Q for the German term for source. Mark appears next in a couple years and is shortest. Matt is next as can be seen from similarities with Mark. John is probably next but obviously not relying on that material. Then Luke who explains that he interviewed and consulted many about what happened, and thus has at least some similarity to M&M and way more to them than John, as we all know.
The region of 'ges' (land, earth) is Judea in Mt 24, as it had been most everywhere in Matt. Many details about what is said in Mt24A confine it to Judea. The whole explanation happens because it was confusing for the disciples to hear that the house/identity of Israel would be desolate at the end of ch23, then exult in Judaism's beautiful buildings, then be told they would crash.
In v29+ the expressions ends of heaven or 4 corners of the earth show that the setting of those events are worldwide.
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Interplanner,
If there's one guy that I could explain this to it would be you. I believe that without knowing it at the time in 1925, Hugh Schonfield made the greatest Biblical discovery in modern times. I can't copy and paste from the PDF because it's a scanned book and I don't have the fancy Adobe with ocular recognition.
Matthew 1:1-17 reads like this: 1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ , the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> 17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.
The only problem is that there has never been three sets of fourteen generations in the listing of our Greek to English versions of Matthew. There's no doubt that the compiler intended to divide his list into three groups of fourteen names each.
The first two groups have their fourteen generations, the third group has only thirteen. Some versions have attempted to fix this by repeating the name of David at the top of Group 2, or that of Jeconiah at the top of Group 3.
The Aramaic duTillet version of Matthew, translated and published in 1927 by Hugh J. Schonfield, shows the missing patriarch from that final list of 14 generations. du Tillets Hebraic Matthew states, beginning at verse 13, Zerubbabel begat Abihud; Abihud begat Abner; Abner begat Eliakim Grandpa Abner has been missing for over 1,800 years from Jesus genealogy.
Matthew is different from any other Book in the new testament. Most scholars think that the Hebraic versions were translated from the Greek original for the purpose of Jewish 1st century apologetics. They got it backwards, the correct genealogy proves it.
Understand that it's not about the genealogy, it's about a few other crucial pieces of text that differ from the translations we've become accustomed to.
"and there shall be pestillence, and famine, and earthquake in everyplace" - duTillet
"and these are but the beginning of the plagues" - duTillet
"seven angels having the seven last plagues,
for in them the wrath of God is complete"
"the beginning of the plagues" are the first four trumpet plagues which are also "the beginning of sorrows" that closely follow an "earthquake in everyplace" which is the global earthquake from Revelation 8.
Why would the Greek scribes change "earthquake in everyplace" to "earthquakes in divers places" or "earthquakes in various places"? One singular "earthquake" in "everyplace" is a global earthquake. Maybe the idea of a global earthquake, even to the 1st century translators, seemed as though it must be a mistake. Keep in mind these guys didn't have The Revelation yet.
Whatever the case, if we get a strange earthquake that's felt "in everyplace", get away from the cities. Trumpet number one will be on the way with a bad case of sudden destruction.
"And hail and fire followed, mingled with blood, and they were thrown to the earth. And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up"
"and these are but the beginning of the plagues" - duTillet
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Sorry I just have no idea what (dis)connection is being made between genealogy and destruction.
I'm not seeing the one you are making or you are not saying, yet.
We know much of the audience (location) of Mt 24 was Judean because of the similar of Mt 10 and 24.
The swifer the overall view of the 2nd coming (vs a span of many slower events), the more accurate. The NT is pretty clear about that.
I'm not seeing the one you are making or you are not saying, yet.
We know much of the audience (location) of Mt 24 was Judean because of the similar of Mt 10 and 24.
The swifer the overall view of the 2nd coming (vs a span of many slower events), the more accurate. The NT is pretty clear about that.
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