Allegiance to a flag rather than God.

[BryanW92]

I agrer nothing has ever been Christian about this nation nor will it ever be,

Nothing?

 

[Alithis]

Nothing?

in a manner of speaking that's probably true .. but youd have to observe it from a neutral position rather then a patriotic one or one opposed to the usa .

everything of this world is born of this world and works for the purpose of this world ..everything born of the Holy Spirit works for the purpose of God .

"men" made up a jolly good sounding list of ideals upon which to build the USA .
they "sounded " really good and on the surface they were .but- they were not of the Spirit ,they were carnal .. and so it has transpired over time that the very ideals that were set in place for good intent are the same ideals used to fully establish great wickedness as law .
"gun laws"
"abortion laws"
"pornography laws "
"human rights" (which have taken precedence over spiritual truth)
"homosexual laws" --
all these firmly established by means of man made rules of good intent .

interesting isnt it .
that which is born flesh IS flesh and ultimately works to the glorification and appeasement of the carnal (and biblical wicked desired) mind and flesh in full opposition to the Holy Spirit of the living GOD .

man in his best intention cannot (and thus did not)attain righteousness in the constitution but rather unwittingly created a platform upon which to establish ,ultimately. a law against God .

His ways are not our ways .
---------------------------------------------
this post is not intended as an attack ,being anti usa or anything .., but an observation the long term results of "best intentions" which, even at there best ,cannot EVER ultimately work the righteousness of God -they will always fall short .

 

[mafwons]

Nothing?

Nada zip zilch.

 

[dragongunner]

in a manner of speaking that's probably true .. but youd have to observe it from a neutral position rather then a patriotic one or one opposed to the usa .

everything of this world is born of this world and works for the purpose of this world ..everything born of the Holy Spirit works for the purpose of God .

"men" made up a jolly good sounding list of ideals upon which to build the USA .
they "sounded " really good and on the surface they were .but- they were not of the Spirit ,they were carnal .. and so it has transpired over time that the very ideals that were set in place for good intent are the same ideals used to fully establish great wickedness as law .
"gun laws"
"abortion laws"
"pornography laws "
"human rights" (which have taken precedence over spiritual truth)
"homosexual laws" --
all these firmly established by means of man made rules of good intent .

interesting isnt it .
that which is born flesh IS flesh and ultimately works to the glorification and appeasement of the carnal (and biblical wicked desired) mind and flesh in full opposition to the Holy Spirit of the living GOD .

man in his best intention cannot (and thus did not)attain righteousness in the constitution but rather unwittingly created a platform upon which to establish ,ultimately. a law against God .

His ways are not our ways .
---------------------------------------------
this post is not intended as an attack ,being anti usa or anything .., but an observation the long term results of "best intentions" which, even at there best ,cannot EVER ultimately work the righteousness of God -they will always fall short .

I don't think you really have a clue what your saying on this. How many of the presidents and the history of the USA have you read, and what were those materials? How do you know Gods hand was not on some of these men that founded this nation? What did these men have to say about God and for that matter themselves….It's apparent that you don't know what these men said, that they knew they were flawed men because of the flesh, they lived a very different time than we do now….easy to armchair quarterback. They did the best they could, they for the most part for the majority had strong beliefs and looked to God for help and guidance, they were in fact men of prayer. They knew nothing would be perfect, Just like Jesus set up things for us, they were perfect, yet has that made the world perfect….? Why not, because we fail to follow……so if its not a perfect world even though Jesus gave us his Word…..does that mean he was flawed….God forbid. Men can make a mess of Gods word, and they can also serve him. The men that founded this country I believe did the best they could, and that God was with most of them. I believe the Constitution was in fact a miracle of God to man and to this country. Because evil men reject that, and make a mess of things don;t throw the baby out with the bath water….men make a mess of religion and the word of God, but I don't throw my Lord out with them. Read the book "Being George Washington." then ask the question did God move in people lives back then. Or simply in prayer to God ask Him if his Spirit moved upon some of these men, as you claim he didn't……IF he tells you no, please share.

Did you even know that they said that the Constitution was only made for a moral and religious people? And if people turned form God the Constitution would be of no use.

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will serve the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samauel Adams 1749

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams Oct. 11, 1798

"Should Christianity fall, our government will also fall." Jedediah Morse

 

[Red Fox]

Did you even know that they said that the Constitution was only made for a moral and religious people? And if people turned form God the Constitution would be of no use.

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will serve the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samauel Adams 1749

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams Oct. 11, 1798

"Should Christianity fall, our government will also fall." Jedediah Morse

Less than 5% of Native Americans are Christians. Ever wonder why? I know so many NDNs who hate Christianity and they will have nothing to do with it.

 

[dragongunner]

Less than 5% of Native Americans are Christians. Ever wonder why? I know so many NDNs who hate Christianity and they will have nothing to do with it.

Well thats too bad then since only Jesus can save, I at least hope you have not rejected Christ. By the way how did Indians get to this country, did they not migrate from Asia? And where did those people come from and migrate from…did we not all come from Adam and Eve? Even the Indians warred and fought against each other for land and territory. In my part the Pottawatomi fought with the Miami, when they took wives they would cross the Eel River, boundary and kidnap the other tribes woman for wives. The Indians were not all saints either.


"Liberals want everyone to think that Indians hate America. They’ve well-trained a number of professional Indian protesters, and together with America’s subversive media and universities, there is definitely a distinct impression that American Indians have a hostile disposition toward the United States, or at the least, Indians have a permanent resentment toward the country. The Indian drum supposedly beats out an everlasting drone of discontent.
It is a hard image to break. Even though it is not true that Indians hate America, it is true that liberals have succeeded in influencing many Indians through offering them positions on NGOs and other charitable 501c3 groups, and endless exposure in the media if they will protest America. There are in fact many uninformed Indians who feel it authenticates their Indianness to protest and hate America. Especially breeds (like RUSSELL MEANS, Dennis Banks, Leonard Peltiere and the Bellecourt brothers) and no bloods (like Ward Churchill) all have made extensive careers out of condemning the United States. They want to keep the Indian wars going. They want Indian young people to grow up warped, stilted, and poisoned by hating of their host country. The damage these professional, “liberal” Indians have done is immeasurable, and far more than any inch of good resulting from their highly publicized efforts in animosity." David Yeagley, great, great-grandson of Comanche leader Bad Eagle.

 

[Alithis]

I don't think you really have a clue what your saying on this. How many of the presidents and the history of the USA have you read, and what were those materials? How do you know Gods hand was not on some of these men that founded this nation? What did these men have to say about God and for that matter themselves….It's apparent that you don't know what these men said, that they knew they were flawed men because of the flesh, they lived a very different time than we do now….easy to armchair quarterback. They did the best they could, they for the most part for the majority had strong beliefs and looked to God for help and guidance, they were in fact men of prayer. They knew nothing would be perfect, Just like Jesus set up things for us, they were perfect, yet has that made the world perfect….? Why not, because we fail to follow……so if its not a perfect world even though Jesus gave us his Word…..does that mean he was flawed….God forbid. Men can make a mess of Gods word, and they can also serve him. The men that founded this country I believe did the best they could, and that God was with most of them. I believe the Constitution was in fact a miracle of God to man and to this country. Because evil men reject that, and make a mess of things don;t throw the baby out with the bath water….men make a mess of religion and the word of God, but I don't throw my Lord out with them. Read the book "Being George Washington." then ask the question did God move in people lives back then. Or simply in prayer to God ask Him if his Spirit moved upon some of these men, as you claim he didn't……IF he tells you no, please share.

Did you even know that they said that the Constitution was only made for a moral and religious people? And if people turned form God the Constitution would be of no use.

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will serve the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samauel Adams 1749

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams Oct. 11, 1798

"Should Christianity fall, our government will also fall." Jedediah Morse

i don't need to know what the past says in any great detail ..
as i said, i have the present result of it to look upon.
and i wasn't meaning it as an attack on your nation in any way ..only a rather obvious observation.

i do know as you have shown by a few quotes .that the intent was good .. but it was still an intent .. even by religious men ..which has al these many many years later resulted in those very "man made" laws being used to solidify the establishment of great evil .

so we see that man in his best intent ..can never circumnavigate nor establish , by his own effort ,the righteousness of God -
they established some very good laws and yet created a foundation which wicked men used quite efficiently to make rules against God .

you must remember im not speaking nor observing from a patriotic position ,so i can view it from a less emotional position .
also i have little patriotism for my own nation .it grows wicked by the day and god will destroy it also if it will not repent
he is not returning to rule from nz or the usa .. hes returning to be enthroned in Jerusalam and he will over throw ALL the nations of the earth .. all includes the USA .. and rule them with a rod of iron .

thus i place my allegiance solidly under the banner of my beloved for he is mine and i am his and his banner (flag) is LOVE .

for all our justifications of choices we make .. "you cannot serve two masters "

 

[Alithis]

Less than 5% of Native Americans are Christians. Ever wonder why? I know so many NDNs who hate Christianity and they will have nothing to do with it.

your picture is a misrepresentation of the Gospel by those who have become the haters they hate .and a great disrespect for the true ministers of the gospel who had nothing to do with politics and came .. and died in hunger sickness and violence ,loving not their own lives ,to bring a people without hope the good news of the eternal salvation of God offered all mankind in Christ Jesus. men woman and children who are unknown and unnamed by the world in all its wickedness ,but seated in the heavens in Christ JESUS .it is a declaration that it has become the very thing it hates .
do not judge God and his own, for the acts of unrighteous men .

 

[RDKirk]

your picture is a misrepresentation of the Gospel by those who have become the haters they hate .and a great disrespect for the true ministers of the gospel who had nothing to do with politics and came .. and died in hunger sickness and violence ,loving not their own lives ,to bring a people without hope the good news of the eternal salvation of God offered all mankind in Christ Jesus. men woman and children who are unknown and unnamed by the world in all its wickedness ,but seated in the heavens in Christ JESUS .it is a declaration that it has become the very thing it hates .
do not judge God and his own, for the acts of unrighteous men .

But you have to ask yourself, if a nation has so represented the gospel as to turn people from Christ (and the words of Malcolm X reverberate in that same space), how can it have been a Christian nation to begin with?

 

[Alithis]

But you have to ask yourself, if a nation has so represented the gospel as to turn people from Christ (and the words of Malcolm X reverberate in that same space), how can it have been a Christian nation to begin with?

that's a good question -your probably asking the wrong person-
i don't think it ever was a Christian nation ,i think it was a nation with a lot of Christians in it

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Does anyone here think it is ok to worship the American flag by pledging away our allegiance to it instead of God?

I do not think it's ok. I opposed the pledge for every possible reason and I'd be happy if we did away with it entirely.

Not to change the topic of the thread but could you define this ever elusive concept of "a Christian Nation". Equality, freedom and such are fine and they are allegedly American values, but what of that, I can't grasp the correlation.

God's only nation is the realm of the spirit. We all reside in the world of the spirit, alive or dead, whether we know it or not. God does not care about anyone's national border.

mafwons, you already know how I feel about the American flag and pledging allegiance to it or to America. Like I said before, the American flag does not deserve to be honored any more than the country it represents. All of the patriotic idol worship over America makes me sick to my stomach. As an Native American, this is what I think of the American flag and the country it represents.

“An upside down flag is an international signal of distress… now we, the Indian nations, are in distress. I will wear this flag upside down as long as my people are in distress!” - Russell Means, Lakota (1939 – 2012) - Russell Means, A Portrait

I have a thing for flags. I think the American flag is nice to look at. But when I do stop to think about the history of this country, I do get sick too sometimes when I realize what our flag represents.

 

[Red Fox]

I have a thing for flags. I think the American flag is nice to look at. But when I do stop to think about the history of this country, I do get sick too sometimes when I realize what our flag represents.

O'siyo, my friend. I can't bear to look at the American flag. The very sight of it makes my stomach turn. I hated holding it during an NDN protest I attended some years ago at a pro-American rally. I held it for a friend who was in a exchange of words with a racist pro-American freak (who was wearing a cross necklace around his neck), who had started cussing and yelling at us. It was really a sight to behold.

 

[Red Fox]

Well thats too bad then since only Jesus can save, I at least hope you have not rejected Christ.

No, I have not but I have struggled with my Christian faith since the very beginning, as well as viciously criticized for it.

By the way how did Indians get to this country, did they not migrate from Asia?

Please not the Bering Strait theory again. There is a reason why NDNs call it the B.S. theory and it doesn't stand for Bering Strait either.

And where did those people come from and migrate from…did we not all come from Adam and Eve?

Yes, that is the basic biblical belief.

Even the Indians warred and fought against each other for land and territory. In my part the Pottawatomi fought with the Miami, when they took wives they would cross the Eel River, boundary and kidnap the other tribes woman for wives. The Indians were not all saints either.

Yes, sovereign NDN nations fought against one another. And your point? Does that somehow justify the Europeans stealing NDN land, forcing them into death marches and onto barren wastelands called Reservations, massacring millions of innocent NDN men, women and children who posed no threat to them, stealing NDN children from their families to forcibly assimilate them into white culture, or the attempted genocide of an entire race of NDN people? I think not.

"Liberals want everyone to think that Indians hate America. They’ve well-trained a number of professional Indian protesters, and together with America’s subversive media and universities, there is definitely a distinct impression that American Indians have a hostile disposition toward the United States, or at the least, Indians have a permanent resentment toward the country. The Indian drum supposedly beats out an everlasting drone of discontent.
It is a hard image to break. Even though it is not true that Indians hate America, it is true that liberals have succeeded in influencing many Indians through offering them positions on NGOs and other charitable 501c3 groups, and endless exposure in the media if they will protest America. There are in fact many uninformed Indians who feel it authenticates their Indianness to protest and hate America. Especially breeds (like RUSSELL MEANS, Dennis Banks, Leonard Peltiere and the Bellecourt brothers) and no bloods (like Ward Churchill) all have made extensive careers out of condemning the United States. They want to keep the Indian wars going. They want Indian young people to grow up warped, stilted, and poisoned by hating of their host country. The damage these professional, “liberal” Indians have done is immeasurable, and far more than any inch of good resulting from their highly publicized efforts in animosity." David Yeagley, great, great-grandson of Comanche leader Bad Eagle.

Although I respect my NDN elders, I do not always agree with them and with what they say. As far as I'm concerned, he is brainwashed, defeated and pitiful, especially since he calls this nation our "host country". I feel sorry for him. He is nothing more than an "on the fort Indian," who has ultimately been defeated and has accepted the oppression of NDN people by this tyrannical country.

 

[Red Fox]

For some reason I can't edit my previous post. However, I wanted to also say that if David Yeagley wants to dishonor our people and our ancestors, then that is his choice, but he is, and I know for a fact, in the minority of NDNs who have accepted defeat and oppression from our so-called "host country".

 

[dragongunner]

But you have to ask yourself, if a nation has so represented the gospel as to turn people from Christ (and the words of Malcolm X reverberate in that same space), how can it have been a Christian nation to begin with?

The same way God gave the promise land of Israel. It was then up to them to live for God or to turn their backs…..and we know how they have done both through out the generations. I seem to see so much hate….rise above this those of you in Christ, and learn to put away what evil wants you to believe and stand in love. This nation has done both great and wonderful things for the Living God, and it has also done evil. It has turned towards God for help, and it has also turned its back. It has been that way in all generation has it not? Look for the good and get rid of the racism, the bigotry and hatred or you will just continue to be part of the problem, having bitterness in the heart that slowly kills and corrupts the soul. Does not God give us free will to choose…..I see much wrong and sin and evil this day in my country, as I have said so many times. But as with each generation we have the chance to turn our hearts back towards Christ and ask for help. But even as values and such erode away, even in these end times as "wicked men shall increase", "if his people who are called by his name will repent and turn towards me then I the Lord will heal their land." Its up to Gods people to decide how great or low their nation becomes. Love God, be thankful, and stand against evil. Learn to do good and see that there are people trying each day that want to serve God and make their country better. Its really up to the people of faith, whether we fight the good fight….or give in, pointing the finger at everything except ourselves, and doing nothing. For we will reap what we sow, both individually and as a nation.

 

[RDKirk]

that's a good question -your probably asking the wrong person-
i don't think it ever was a Christian nation ,i think it was a nation with a lot of Christians in it

Well, I've said exactly that myself.

 

[mafwons]

But you have to ask yourself, if a nation has so represented the gospel as to turn people from Christ (and the words of Malcolm X reverberate in that same space), how can it have been a Christian nation to begin with?

You smack of reason.