Why WoF Didn't Work for Me in the Past

[Faith Shield]

I got into WoF in the late nineties, through Kenneth Hagin’s books. I was attending a WoF oriented church at the time, which experienced signs and wonders. My efforts with faith declarations didn’t work for me. I then transitioned into the grace message in the mid-noughties, and followed Joseph Prince.

I was very insecure when I studied WoF and struggled with anxiety and depression. The grace message was one of the best things that ever happened to me – it helped me to become a lot more mature and balanced. I’m not anti-WoF and I have a lot of respect for Kenneth Hagin, but I do have my reservations about WoF. I think the biggest problem is the rather predictable reaction of insecure people towards WoF. I’m now keen to revisit WoF, discover why it didn’t work and how I can work with it now.

Hagin seemed to focus almost entirely on faith for healing and finances. Hagin often says that his faith teaching can be applied to anything else the Bible promises – but it’s always a side-note. Most of his anecdotes centre round full time ministry – no surprises there as he was a minister. But it becomes hard to relate to those anecdotes and apply them to your life, if you’re not in the ministry. I’d rather hear anecdotes from people with secular jobs, like myself. There’s also a lot of attention drawn towards the miraculous, which I became obsessed with. I think miracles can lead to unrealistic expectations. I think this has a lot to do with the issues I had with WoF. I also believe other, insecure people also have these issues.

I struggled quite a lot with my life – especially with my emotions, relationships and career. I felt like something was missing in my life. I had my basic material needs met – but wasn’t satisfied. I felt like I was okay at the time – but what if this or that happened in the future? I wanted to accumulate wealth to make me feel more secure about an uncertain future – especially as so many things tended to go badly in my life. This was also a time when the cost of living was skyrocketing – remember the house price bubble and credit crunch? I became besotted with performance and job titles and salary figures. So I tried to use faith confessions for these specific things, as well a big-ticket items and lump sums of money. Despite me paying a double-tithe at the time – my efforts didn’t work.

Now I see that I should have used faith confessions for what I really needed: love, peace, joy, relationships and career. I should have developed a trust in God that He would meet my needs – without trying to validate and measure exactly what that would look like and what it would include. Life is not a competition, after all; there’s no Bible verse that says you’ll drive a better car than you neighbour, for instance. It takes trust in God that his prosperity for you will be good enough.

I needed faith to get more of the divine nature that the Bible talks about, operating in me. The problem is though is that most ministers see this as something that you make an effort of the will to do – as if you’re in perfect, conscious control of how you think, feel and act. I believe this is nonsense as most, if not all, of what we do arises from the subconscious, not conscious, mind. We have people like Joyce Meyer talking about principles: make sure you’re kind to people; always be patient, no matter what’s going on in your life; and so on.

The Bible actually says that things like patience are an aspect of love, which is a gift from God. Some people would say, “There you are, the Bible says you have it – so its up to you to use it!” But the Bible says that we’ve already been healed – so why aren’t we all automatically healed? It’s because we need to use faith to experience what the Bible has promised us – why don’t we take the same approach with things like love, peace, joy and patience? Ministers never teach on faith for patience – so we never apply it.

Does this resonate with anyone? Can we use faith to get more of what the Bible tells us about love and the divine nature, operating in our lives?

 

[Alithis]

its getting late where im at, bit tired ,maybe i misread.
but it sounds like you put your faith ,in faith.
rather then in God.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

By his stripes we were healed- This must be the most misunderstood and mis taught scripture in the bible. This scripture isn't talking about physical healing at all. The truth is that we will have tribulation in this world, we will grow old and die. We will experience suffering and loss. Heaven is our reward. I suggest that we look toward heaven.

Christ said to take no thought for our life, and not to worry about food and clothing. Paul teaches that if we have food and clothing then we should be content with that. James says we have not because we ask not, Christ says to pray for our daily bread, Paul says to be careful for nothing but in all things let our requests be known to God in prayer. Jesus said not to store riches on earth but in heaven. This is the way. This is faith.

We dont need to sow financial seeds in order to reap carnal blessings, all we need do is pray and trust God, this is faith. The birds neither sow or reap, are we bnot better than they?






1 Timothy 6:3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings[a] of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain[c] we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

The Good Confession
11 But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

Instructions to the Rich
17 Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. 18 Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share, 19 storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Guard the Faith
20 O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge— 21 by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith.

Grace be with you. Amen.




Philippians 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

James 4:2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet[a] you do not have because you do not ask.


Matthew 6:9 Pray then like this:

“Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.[a]
10 Your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread,[c]
12 and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.[d]




Mathew 6:19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust[e] destroy and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light, 23 but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.[f]

Do Not Be Anxious
25 “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?[g] 28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

34 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

 

[iluvtheSims]

Nothing is wrong with someone sowing seeds for money, for health, or anything else they need. God wants you to seek Him for your wants and needs.

Matthew 7:9-10
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

I've had so many miraculous things happen since I joined WOF that I know its for me and it works!

Put your faith in God and trust Him.

I've been healed from so many afflictions in WOF, illnesses I wouldn't have known how to use my authority to cure if I was still a Baptist.

 

[Faith Shield]

its getting late where im at, bit tired ,maybe i misread.
but it sounds like you put your faith ,in faith.
rather then in God.

It's possible Miichael. I've heard that term before but am not sure what it means or how it may apply to my situation - could you elaborate?

 

[Restoresmysoul]

I would be more concerned with obeying what the Lord and His apostles teach us rather than worrying about miracles. Paul doesn't teach us to sow seeds in order to reap carnal things. Paul tells us to be content with food and clothing, and he teaches us to be content in whatever situation we find our self in, whether abounding in plenty or suffering need. Paul teaches us to be careful for nothing but in all things to pray. Paul doesn't not teach us to sow seeds in order to reap carnal things, and we are never commanded to do miracles, but we are commanded to be content. And Christ does teach us not to store riches on earth, but many prosperity preachers do the opposite, they have expensive cars and homes and lots of personal wealth. I dont see how they can claim to be filled with the spirit. I would rather just follow these instructions below rather than follow prosperity preachers, it seems safer and wiser.



Christ teaches us to not worry about our life, what we will eat or wear, and he teaches us not to store riches on earth. Obeying these things are wise, but to ignore them is foolish

Mathew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Build on the Rock
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”



Philippians 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.



1 Timothy 6:3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings[a] of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain[c] we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

The Good Confession
11 But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.



Philippians 4:11 Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content: 12 I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. 13 I can do all things through Christ[a] who strengthens me.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

[/INDENT]]By his stripes we were healed- This must be the most misunderstood and mis taught scripture in the bible. This scripture isn't talking about physical healing at all. The truth is that we will have tribulation in this world, we will grow old and die.

Tribulation has nothing to do with sickness. Tribulation is outward exertion of oppression.

"By His stripes..." has nothing to so with physical healing?? Are you kidding? Or just Calvinistic?

It is both spiritual and physical. Let's show the physical.

1 Peter 2:24
24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.​

Context is definitely spiritually leaning. But this is a direct quote of...

Isaiah 53:4-5 (NKJV)
4 Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.

5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.​

That word 'grief' actually means sickness. The word 'sorrows' actually means pain.

Here, look at a more modern and accurate translation:

Isaiah 53:4-5 (NET)
4 But he lifted up our illnesses,
he carried our pain;
even though we thought he was being punished,
attacked by God, and afflicted for something he had done.

5 He was wounded because of our rebellious deeds,
crushed because of our sins;
he endured punishment that made us well;
because of his wounds we have been healed.​

This is what Peter was quoting. It speaks of the atonement, which gives healing to all aspects of your life, most importantly, but not limited to, your soul.

But this isn't all. Here's the humdinger -- for we all should be able to find a humdinger --

Look at Matthew 8.

from Matthew 8:1-16 (NET)
2 And a leper approached, and bowed low before him, saying, "Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean." 3 He stretched out his hand and touched him saying, "I am willing. Be clean!" Immediately his leprosy was cleansed.

5 When he entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him asking for help: 6 "Lord, my servant is lying at home paralyzed, in terrible anguish." 7 Jesus said to him, "I will come and heal him."
13b And the servant was healed at that hour.

14 Now when Jesus entered Peter's house, he saw his mother-in-law lying down, sick with a fever. 15 He touched her hand, and the fever left her.

16 When it was evening, many demon-possessed people were brought to him. He drove out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick.​

Healing, healing, healing, casting out, and healing. This is about all this half of the chapter is about.

And for what purpose? Ahh, verse 17:

Matthew 8.17
17 In this way what was spoken by Isaiah the prophet was fulfilled: " He took our weaknesses and carried our diseases . "​

Jesus quotes Isaiah 53:4-5. Quoted it, as Peter quoted it too, to show that He, by PHYSICALLY healing people, was fulfilling this scripture.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

Tribulation has nothing to do with sickness. Tribulation is outward exertion of oppression.

"By His stripes..." has nothing to so with physical healing?? Are you kidding? Or just Calvinistic?

It is both spiritual and physical. Let's show the physical.

1 Peter 2:24
24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.​

Context is definitely spiritually leaning. But this is a direct quote of...

Isaiah 53:4-5 (NKJV)
4 Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.

5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.​

That word 'grief' actually means sickness. The word 'sorrows' actually means pain.

Here, look at a more modern and accurate translation:

Isaiah 53:4-5 (NET)
4 But he lifted up our illnesses,
he carried our pain;
even though we thought he was being punished,
attacked by God, and afflicted for something he had done.

5 He was wounded because of our rebellious deeds,
crushed because of our sins;
he endured punishment that made us well;
because of his wounds we have been healed.​

This is what Peter was quoting. It speaks of the atonement, which gives healing to all aspects of your life, most importantly, but not limited to, your soul.

But this isn't all. Here's the humdinger -- for we all should be able to find a humdinger --

Look at Matthew 8.

from Matthew 8:1-16 (NET)
2 And a leper approached, and bowed low before him, saying, "Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean." 3 He stretched out his hand and touched him saying, "I am willing. Be clean!" Immediately his leprosy was cleansed.

5 When he entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him asking for help: 6 "Lord, my servant is lying at home paralyzed, in terrible anguish." 7 Jesus said to him, "I will come and heal him."
13b And the servant was healed at that hour.

14 Now when Jesus entered Peter's house, he saw his mother-in-law lying down, sick with a fever. 15 He touched her hand, and the fever left her.

16 When it was evening, many demon-possessed people were brought to him. He drove out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick.​

Healing, healing, healing, casting out, and healing. This is about all this half of the chapter is about.

And for what purpose? Ahh, verse 17:

Matthew 8.17
17 In this way what was spoken by Isaiah the prophet was fulfilled: " He took our weaknesses and carried our diseases . "​

Jesus quotes Isaiah 53:4-5. Quoted it, as Peter quoted it too, to show that He, by PHYSICALLY healing people, was fulfilling this scripture.

Ok, if thats what you want to believe. But if we were healed by His stripes then why did Paul tell Timothy to drink wine for his stomach and his other infirmities? (1 Timothy 5:23 )

Didn't the stripes heal Timothy? Why didn't paul tell Timothy that he was healed by the Lords stripes? Why didn't he just tell Timothy to name it and claim it?


Peter seems to be talking about another kind of healing, not physical healing.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

Paul told timothy that Godliness wasn't about gain, and that we should be content with food and clothing, and that we should teach no other doctrine. Paul also told timothy that he should take wine for his stomach and his other infirmities.

I think its safe to say that Paul was not WOF.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Christ teaches us to not worry about our life, what we will eat or wear, and he teaches us not to store riches on earth. Obeying these things are wise, but to ignore them is foolish

Mathew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Build on the Rock
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

First, Matthew 7:21-23 is about people who would call themselves Christians, but do not do God' commandments. Think of a homosexual who fashions himself a Christian; but he won't quit practicing his sin.

Verses 24-27. It's about the foundation, not the house. Jesus doesn't chide the man for building a house, rather where he built it. Why do you attempt to weave these scriptures like wicker not your own meaning?

Cherry picking. That's all it is.

Why didn't you tell of Jesus calling Nicodemus down and instead of giving him two cents about being rich He goes and eats and drinks with him? Why didn't you bring up the fact that Jesus' get together were so fun filled that the Pharisees actually called Him a drunk and a glutton? Where is your analysis of the ten talents, and the focus not on the poor soul who hid the money, not even on the fact that the one with the most doubled the riches, but that God gave the wealthy one even that which he didn't earn!! God monetarily blesses the richest of them.

And may I ask you if you know what a congregational forum is? Your teaching here is against the Forum rules. Are you Word/Faith? Your teaching is about as far from ours as one can get. So why do you break CF's rules and teach here?

Look at my signature below. Jeremiah 29:11. What does God have plans to do?

Prosper us.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Ok, if thats what you want to believe. But if we were healed by His stripes then why did Paul tell Timothy to drink wine for his stomach and his other infirmities? (1 Timothy 5:23 )

Black and white, eh?

Mark 9:24 (NET)
Immediately the father of the boy cried out and said, "I believe; help my unbelief!"​

Nobody ever stumbles in doubt, even though we shouldn't?

Didn't the stripes heal Timothy? Why didn't paul tell Timothy that he was healed by the Lords stripes? Why didn't he just tell Timothy to name it and claim it?

First, because no Word/Faith member has ever called our movement or the healing process by that Calvinistic lie.

Second, the stripes provided healing for all. But one must apply the promise, without doubt, in all faith to receive. Timothy obviously needed some help at this time in his ministry.

Peter seems to be talking about another kind of healing, not physical healing.

And your point is??

Jesus stripes healed us in many ways. It's called prosperity. Shalom. Nothing broken, nothing missing. And Peter certainly was emphasizing the salvation that we obtained through His suffering.

You can toss out other scripture that you don't like. Take a Sharpie marker to it and wipe out the tough stuff. We here in this forum will take and believe the WHOLE council of God's Word.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

First, Matthew 7:21-23 is about people who would call themselves Christians, but do not do God' commandments. Think of a homosexual who fashions himself a Christian; but he won't quit practicing his sin.

Verses 24-27. It's about the foundation, not the house. Jesus doesn't chide the man for building a house, rather where he built it. Why do you attempt to weave these scriptures like wicker not your own meaning?

Cherry picking. That's all it is.

Why didn't you tell of Jesus calling Nicodemus down and instead of giving him two cents about being rich He goes and eats and drinks with him? Why didn't you bring up the fact that Jesus' get together were so fun filled that the Pharisees actually called Him a drunk and a glutton? Where is your analysis of the ten talents, and the focus not on the poor soul who hid the money, not even on the fact that the one with the most doubled the riches, but that God gave the wealthy one even that which he didn't earn!! God monetarily blesses the richest of them.

And may I ask you if you know what a congregational forum is? Your teaching here is against the Forum rules. Are you Word/Faith? Your teaching is about as far from ours as one can get. So why do you break CF's rules and teach here?

Look at my signature below. Jeremiah 29:11. What does God have plans to do?

Prosper us.

Ok, fair enough i wont post here anymore. But you haven't answered my questions and i don't think you ever will.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

Black and white, eh?

Mark 9:24 (NET)
Immediately the father of the boy cried out and said, "I believe; help my unbelief!"​

Nobody ever stumbles in doubt, even though we shouldn't?


First, because no Word/Faith member has ever called our movement or the healing process by that Calvinistic lie.

Second, the stripes provided healing for all. But one must apply the promise, without doubt, in all faith to receive. Timothy obviously needed some help at this time in his ministry.



And your point is??

Jesus stripes healed us in many ways. It's called prosperity. Shalom. Nothing broken, nothing missing. And Peter certainly was emphasizing the salvation that we obtained through His suffering.

You can toss out other scripture that you don't like. Take a Sharpie marker to it and wipe out the tough stuff. We here in this forum will take and believe the WHOLE council of God's Word.

I have heard TBN preachers teach their doctrine, thats where i get my info, not from calvinists. Anyway, i cant post here anymore. Have a good day.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Ok, fair enough i wont post here anymore. But you haven't answered my questions and i don't think you ever will.

You can post here in fellowship without agreeing with us. You can't teach or debate. It's a fine line. But if you want to know more about Word/Faith, you are welcome to ask. I'll go back and see what question I missed. Please, ask again.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Paul told timothy that Godliness wasn't about gain, and that we should be content with food and clothing, and that we should teach no other doctrine. Paul also told timothy that he should take wine for his stomach and his other infirmities.

I think its safe to say that Paul was not WOF.

I would disagree with the conclusion. Yes, Paul told Timothy about contentedness. Perhaps if there were TV back then, Timothy would have been one of the flashier preachers. And Paul was Kenneth E. Hagin about to write "The Midas Touch."

In your pointing out the truth that we should be content you lay aside the teachings on reward, responsibility, etc. God does not tell us in scripture to be poor. But He warns us of making money our god. He warns that riches can corrupt. He didn't stop Solomon from wealth, even blessed him to get it. For many years Solomon used it wisely. Then he allowed it to corrupt him.

That isn't a teaching against wealth, but a warning to keep priorities straight. Many men are blessed. This blessing can come by showing that you know how to use it to bless others. God gives back pressed down, shaken together and pouring over. That doesn't sound like a poverty condition in whatever medium (money, health, love, joy...).

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

I have heard TBN preachers teach their doctrine, thats where i get my info, not from calvinists. Anyway, i cant post here anymore. Have a good day.

Well, not all preachers on TV have it all right either. The Word of God should be the judge. The Holy Spirit will be your instructor if you listen. Calvinism s the other end of the spectrum, having implanted predetermination over free will.

There are selfish-minded people in all camps. We need to discern what teaching is true to the Word. We should NEVER camp out on a person. If you this you will swallow bad doctrine if and when they teach it. Always take it back to the Word, to the full Word (not just the verses quotes to you by the teacher) and let the Holy Spirit be your guide. He will if you allow Him.

 

[Faith Shield]

Ok, if thats what you want to believe. But if we were healed by His stripes then why did Paul tell Timothy to drink wine for his stomach and his other infirmities? (1 Timothy 5:23 )

Didn't the stripes heal Timothy? Why didn't paul tell Timothy that he was healed by the Lords stripes? Why didn't he just tell Timothy to name it and claim it?


Peter seems to be talking about another kind of healing, not physical healing.

I'm not acquainted with what the Bible says about Timothy's ailments. But I'd say that Paul told him to drink wine for his stomach - because that would make him feel better. There seemed to be no need to pray for his healing, as the wine would do the trick. If someone told me that they had an upset stomach - I'd recommend some kaolin and morphine or even some chicken soup - I wouldn't start praying for thier healing.

 

[Faith Shield]

As I read through those Bible verses posted by Restoresmysoul (I won't quote the entire post, as its rather big) - it all seems to make a lot of sense; and, of course, its scriptural. Such as 1 Timothy 6:6, "Now godliness with contentment is great gain"; also that we are to be content with food and clothing.

But the Words of Jesus in Matthew 6 are the best, telling us that God meets our needs like a Father. I wonder why I, and other Christians, can't just find peace and a sense of security in the Lord's Words here? Why do we panic and feel the need to start naming-and-claiming material things? I should have made faith confessions based on this - declaring that God loves me and meets my needs - without being too hasty to tell God, in great detail, what those needs include. I'll see about doing this from now on. Perhaps I needed something else? Such as peace of mind and happiness?

Okay, so we have "asking" verses such as John 14:14, "If you ask anything in My name, I will do it." Perhaps we read "anything" and think we can have anything we please? I think part of the problem is that we play fast-and-loose with what we label as a "need". I believe the Bible promises our needs will be met (such as Matthew 6). But we get carried away sometimes and class wants and whims as "needs". If a person is insecure, they'll want to get as much money and material needs, which they think they might need in the future - right now. Jesus said, "Do not worry about tommorow...sufficient is the day." I believe this issue was addressed in Luke 12:15-21 in the Parable of the Rich Fool (Bigger Barns). The key word here is "covetousness" (Luke 12:15). I've struggled with covetousness and the vertitable desire to "build bigger barns". I'd like to know how to deal with this - perhaps its to do with what we seek - such as love, righteousness, etc?

Prosperity preachers are often included in the same context as Word of Faith - there is a difference though. They seem to use Phillipians 4:19 as a license to have anything they want. I've almost lost count of the amount of televangelist types who said they could have a bigger church because of Phillipians 4:19. How on earth has this word of encouragement from Paul to the Phillipian church become permission for preachers to have bigger churches? There's also that verse in Joshua and Deutoeronomy that they like to quote:

Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, I have given that to you, as I said to Moses.
Joshua 1:3 MKJV

Joshua 1:3 was a specific promise of land to the jews - how can this be used by preachers to claim a piece of land that they want (even if it is for a church)?

I believe there are moments when you get a strong, heart-felt desire that you can have, be or do something - that it is God's will for you. A good example is that of Kenneth Hagin, when he told a couple that he was going to buy their house - when at the time, they didn't want to. This is Mark 11:23-24 kind of faith, when you declare it and claim it. But this kind of faith is not a whim, but an assurance from God. Hagin also wrote that God led him to claim whatever amount of money he required that month. After all, Hagin was a self-emplyed church pastor and not in a salaried position. But to be fair, I never got the impression from Hagin's books that he was significantly wealthy. Hagin was reluctant to write books, because someone told him he could make a lot of money from it. Hagin would often spend a lot of time with just the bare essentials. This is a far cry from the likes of Creflo Dollar, with his two Rolls Royce's. I can see how WoF could get a bad rap from Hagin's writing - earning the it the nickname "name-it-and-claim-it. An insecure person could read Hagin's books and believe they can name-and-claim things they want - even though they are baseless whims. Then, when it doesn't work for them, they get all bitter and side with the anti-WoF brigade. Hagin spoke out about the danger's of the prosperity movement in his book The Midas Touch.

We are also told in 1 Timothy 6:11 what we are to pursue: righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness. I'm intrigued by what the Bible tells believers to seek or pursue - I think we could learn a lot from that. Why is it that so many Christians don't pursue these things - but pursue things such as wealth? I'm interested in what others have to say about how we go about pursuing the aforementioned attributes. I might post a separate thread on this.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

As I read through those Bible verses posted by Restoresmysoul (I won't quote the entire post, as its rather big) - it all seems to make a lot of sense; and, of course, its scriptural. Such as 1 Timothy 6:6, "Now godliness with contentment is great gain"; also that we are to be content with food and clothing.

But the Words of Jesus in Matthew 6 are the best, telling us that God meets our needs like a Father. I wonder why I, and other Christians, can't just find peace and a sense of security in the Lord's Words here? Why do we panic and feel the need to start naming-and-claiming material things? I should have made faith confessions based on this - declaring that God loves me and meets my needs - without being too hasty to tell God, in great detail, what those needs include. I'll see about doing this from now on. Perhaps I needed something else? Such as peace of mind and happiness?

Okay, so we have "asking" verses such as John 14:14, "If you ask anything in My name, I will do it." Perhaps we read "anything" and think we can have anything we please? I think part of the problem is that we play fast-and-loose with what we label as a "need". I believe the Bible promises our needs will be met (such as Matthew 6). But we get carried away sometimes and class wants and whims as "needs". If a person is insecure, they'll want to get as much money and material needs, which they think they might need in the future - right now. Jesus said, "Do not worry about tommorow...sufficient is the day." I believe this issue was addressed in Luke 12:15-21 in the Parable of the Rich Fool (Bigger Barns). The key word here is "covetousness" (Luke 12:15). I've struggled with covetousness and the vertitable desire to "build bigger barns". I'd like to know how to deal with this - perhaps its to do with what we seek - such as love, righteousness, etc?

Prosperity preachers are often included in the same context as Word of Faith - there is a difference though. They seem to use Phillipians 4:19 as a license to have anything they want. I've almost lost count of the amount of televangelist types who said they could have a bigger church because of Phillipians 4:19. How on earth has this word of encouragement from Paul to the Phillipian church become permission for preachers to have bigger churches? There's also that verse in Joshua and Deutoeronomy that they like to quote:

Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, I have given that to you, as I said to Moses.
Joshua 1:3 MKJV

Joshua 1:3 was a specific promise of land to the jews - how can this be used by preachers to claim a piece of land that they want (even if it is for a church)?

I believe there are moments when you get a strong, heart-felt desire that you can have, be or do something - that it is God's will for you. A good example is that of Kenneth Hagin, when he told a couple that he was going to buy their house - when at the time, they didn't want to. This is Mark 11:23-24 kind of faith, when you declare it and claim it. But this kind of faith is not a whim, but an assurance from God. Hagin also wrote that God led him to claim whatever amount of money he required that month. After all, Hagin was a self-emplyed church pastor and not in a salaried position. But to be fair, I never got the impression from Hagin's books that he was significantly wealthy. Hagin was reluctant to write books, because someone told him he could make a lot of money from it. Hagin would often spend a lot of time with just the bare essentials. This is a far cry from the likes of Creflo Dollar, with his two Rolls Royce's. I can see how WoF could get a bad rap from Hagin's writing - earning the it the nickname "name-it-and-claim-it. An insecure person could read Hagin's books and believe they can name-and-claim things they want - even though they are baseless whims. Then, when it doesn't work for them, they get all bitter and side with the anti-WoF brigade. Hagin spoke out about the danger's of the prosperity movement in his book The Midas Touch.

We are also told in 1 Timothy 6:11 what we are to pursue: righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness. I'm intrigued by what the Bible tells believers to seek or pursue - I think we could learn a lot from that. Why is it that so many Christians don't pursue these things - but pursue things such as wealth? I'm interested in what others have to say about how we go about pursuing the aforementioned attributes. I might post a separate thread on this.

This is a great post. So true for what it says.

I do think that a balance for the prosperity side needs to be taken into consideration, for as presented this post does leave me thinking you favor a poverty life pursuing righteousness, godliness, etc., over a prosperous life pursuing righteousness, godliness, etc.

The point, and kudos to your point in this post, is that too many are material minded instead of kingdom minded. Look again at my signature for one of many, many verses that God tells us we should prosper. But as Kenneth E. Hagin taught, the kingdom of heaven needs to be first. Nothing wrong with material gain if it is in proper order to serving God.

Matthew 6:33 (NET)
But above all pursue his kingdom and righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.​

And note that "these things" begin with your food and drink! But more so note that our responsibility is to seek the kingdom first, the God will give us the rest. That includes our prosperity.

So for all you wrote towards keeping a properly focused attitude, kudos!

The other thing I would chide you over, that I would correct, is your interpretation of the Joshua quotes. You say verses such as these are promises to the Jews of that day. If so, cross them out of your bible; they become useless to you.

But that's a wrong viewpoint.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NET)
16 Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the person dedicated to God may be capable and equipped for every good work.​

Even Joshua applies to us for training. Perhaps not as a word for word point, but the principle of the passage. The Old Testament is a picture for the church today. It is a physical demonstration of the spiritual laws we are to follow under the New Covenant.

So if a promise is given to Israel, it is a foreshadow of a promise to the church; for Israel is the picture of the church.

There is not one verse of scripture that can be cut out. That we should do without. That has no application to our lives today.

Not to get lost in this last point, I again want to say that this is an important post for all of us to take to heart. Kudos!!

 

[Alithis]

It's possible Miichael. I've heard that term before but am not sure what it means or how it may apply to my situation - could you elaborate?

elaborate..not really at present but simplify...
Jesus is the living manifest Word of God... i have faith in Him..

hes my "word of faith"

i have zero confidence in me.. i'll let us all down .but Christ in me...ahh he is perfection