Jesus abolished the entire Old Testament.

[Elder 111]

If Jesus has fulfilled the law, the Psalms and the prophets, what is left for us to fulfill?

The same!

 

[Elder 111]

Unless you are trying to say we must also fulfill the law, I have no idea what you are talking about. Such does not line up with the NT revelation or teaching about salvation. We do not have to keep the law to be redeemed or retain that redemption. Otherwise salvation is not a gift of God and indeed we can save ourselves and do not need Jesus. To that I say baloney.

keeping the law is not for redemption but because we are redeemed. Why is that so hard to understand?
You have accepted Christ, does that mean that you should or can steal? NO! So how do you get this ideal that saying you should not steal is keeping the law for salvation? Explain!

 

[listed]

The same!

IOW one is required to do the same as Jesus in order to have salvation. I realize I am unable to ever accomplish this and need someone to do this for me. To say that 1 can achieve this with the aid of the Holy Spirit is a realized lie. You can name no 1 besides Jesus ever accomplishing this feat. You destroy any hope any 1 has of eternal life. You keep your religion and I will keep my Jesus.

 

[listed]

keeping the law is not for redemption but because we are redeemed. Why is that so hard to understand?
You have accepted Christ, does that mean that you should or can steal? NO! So how do you get this ideal that saying you should not steal is keeping the law for salvation? Explain!

I do not steal because my nature has been changed. I do not steal because I am not supposed to and it is wrong.

You are trying to pull a sneaky getting me to confess I keep the law to keep my relationship with God. Wrong. Abraham had a very intimate relationship with God and willfully and purposefully sinned. No I am not promoting sin. If you are a Christian your focus is out of focus and needs serious adjusting and correction. I suggest different glasses.

 

[listed]

The new and old are not composed of the 10 C's only. The major change is the pointing forward to Christ in the sacrifices of animals and the real Sacrifice which is Christ.
Heb. 9:
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

You admit once again the law has changed violating your argument of Mat 5:17-19. You really need to get a firm grip on what you actually believe.

 

[listed]

I see all!

The brick room you are in is so small you rub it every time you move and have open bleeding wounds. You can not even bend down to count those bricks it is so small. This is not intended as a flame or goading.

 

[ananda]

The Apostle John must have been deaf ... He must not have heard Jesus when He said that the OT was abolished, when he (John) wrote well after the crucifixion: "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments."

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

The Apostle John must have been deaf ... He must not have heard Jesus when He said that the OT was abolished, when he (John) wrote well after the crucifixion: "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments."

Wasn't that the same John who penned this passage?

John 13:34-35 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
NASU

 

[ananda]

Wasn't that the same John who penned this passage?

John 13:34-35 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
NASU

Yep, John wrote down what Jesus said.

 

[listed]

The Apostle John must have been deaf ... He must not have heard Jesus when He said that the OT was abolished, when he (John) wrote well after the crucifixion: "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments."

No the problem is what are the current commandments? You say it is the law issued at Sinai (OC) while I say it is the NC of grace voiding the law.

 

[ananda]

No the problem is what are the current commandments? You say it is the law issued at Sinai (OC) while I say it is the NC of grace voiding the law.

But that's not the issue.

John clearly referred to "God" in 1Jn 5:2,3, using the Greek word "Theos" or "Theon", always used in the NT as a placeholder for "YHVH", and always in reference to God the Father.

John was saying: "For this is the love of God the Father, that we keep God the Father's commandments: and God the Father's commandments are not grievous."

And, as I've said before, if the OC Law is voided, then there is no need for Jesus whatsoever. A self-contradiction.

 

[Elder 111]

IOW one is required to do the same as Jesus in order to have salvation. I realize I am unable to ever accomplish this and need someone to do this for me. To say that 1 can achieve this with the aid of the Holy Spirit is a realized lie. You can name no 1 besides Jesus ever accomplishing this feat. You destroy any hope any 1 has of eternal life. You keep your religion and I will keep my Jesus.

So in keep Jesus do you just do anything or do you by the grace of God try to do right at all times?
If you are faced with a situation where a married woman tries to get you to sleep with her should you resist or just go along and trust in Jesus? Is it your position in such a matter that no one can say no and over come by the grace of God? Is that what you are contending?

 

[Elder 111]

It doesn't do you any good to repeat an unBiblical idea that was already addressed and refuted.

What is the law that is being written on the heart?
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

 

[listed]

But that's not the issue.

John clearly referred to "God" in 1Jn 5:2,3, using the Greek word "Theos" or "Theon", always used in the NT as a placeholder for "YHVH", and always in reference to God the Father.

John was saying: "For this is the love of God the Father, that we keep God the Father's commandments: and God the Father's commandments are not grievous."

And, as I've said before, if the OC Law is voided, then there is no need for Jesus whatsoever. A self-contradiction.

Yes, but you over look 1 John 3:23 which clearly identify the commandments John is talking about. They are not found in the law. John shows he does not talk about those laws in his Gospel as well.

 

[Elder 111]

I do not steal because my nature has been changed. I do not steal because I am not supposed to and it is wrong.

You are trying to pull a sneaky getting me to confess I keep the law to keep my relationship with God. Wrong. Abraham had a very intimate relationship with God and willfully and purposefully sinned. No I am not promoting sin. If you are a Christian your focus is out of focus and needs serious adjusting and correction. I suggest different glasses.

If there is a change in your nature, I then take it that you take on the nature of Christ. John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
If Christ is in you working out His character in your being, would it not be inline with the 10C's? Would Christ keep the law or no?

 

[Elder 111]

You admit once again the law has changed violating your argument of Mat 5:17-19. You really need to get a firm grip on what you actually believe.

NO! you need to realize that the 10 C's are not the same as animal sacrifices or circumcision.

 

[listed]

So in keep Jesus do you just do anything or do you by the grace of God try to do right at all times?
If you are faced with a situation where a married woman tries to get you to sleep with her should you resist or just go along and trust in Jesus? Is it your position in such a matter that no one can say no and over come by the grace of God? Is that what you are contending?

Basically you are trying to get me to say yes go ahead and sin. Why do you continue to try and get me to say such foolishness? If I resist you insist I am keeping the law whether I like it or not. This is false. If an when I were to succumb I would then need more grace from God. That does not say go sin that grace may abound.

Maybe you should change your moniker to The Hammer. That is what you are doing. No I will not submit to your crap.

 

[listed]

What is the law that is being written on the heart?
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

I have run out of fingers and toes to count the number of times this has been answered in response to you. Do I need to start asking to borrow fingers and toes to count them?

 

[Elder 111]

No the problem is what are the current commandments? You say it is the law issued at Sinai (OC) while I say it is the NC of grace voiding the law.

It is impossible for Grace to void the law. For Grace exist because of the law!
Romans 5:
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[listed]

If there is a change in your nature, I then take it that you take on the nature of Christ. John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
If Christ is in you working out His character in your being, would it not be inline with the 10C's? Would Christ keep the law or no?

What is the nature of Christ? Is it to follow the law or not sin? Yes I know that you will say if one follows the law they will not sin. Such a statement would be saying no 1 follows the law. The nature of Jesus does not mean 1 is or becomes a Jew obligated to the law to attain or maintain salvation.